labworm
US Veteran
Can you even imagine what would have happened if the role players where reversed. It is just one huge mess as of now.
stand your ground/Concealed carry
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Can you even imagine what would have happened if the role players where reversed. It is just one huge mess as of now.
ek609
Member
Stand Your Ground
Before the Stand your Ground laws started to become more accepted, it was common for people to get into trouble if they used a gun when other options were available. In other words, if you could have run and did not, you would get arrested for using your gun. If you were cornered or being beaten with no option of escape, then you were justified. (assuming your life was in danger, etc). This is all very subjective so you had to be sure. This is in answer to your question about CCW before Stand your Ground.
Before the Stand your Ground laws started to become more accepted, it was common for people to get into trouble if they used a gun when other options were available. In other words, if you could have run and did not, you would get arrested for using your gun. If you were cornered or being beaten with no option of escape, then you were justified. (assuming your life was in danger, etc). This is all very subjective so you had to be sure. This is in answer to your question about CCW before Stand your Ground.
Ltlbear
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Well there is a copy of the police report out there now with some very interesting findings. It also proves Rev JJ made several false statements about the case.
However this plays out, the SYG laws are now being serious looked at and it gave the Anti's way too much ammo.
The media on this has been just terrible. Lies, Lies, and more Lies on both sides, but more on the M side than the Z side IMHO.
As a famous German dictator proved, you tell the lies often enough and long enough, the people believe them to be the truth. Our media is very good at this.
As far as Texas SYG, I believe it is a good law but still I can only use deadly force when I believe myself or somebody is in fear of grave bodily injury or death.
I do not have all the facts, and I will not pretend to know who was right, but I do know this, it is going to hurt all law abiding citizens when all the rulings and judgements are done.
However this plays out, the SYG laws are now being serious looked at and it gave the Anti's way too much ammo.
The media on this has been just terrible. Lies, Lies, and more Lies on both sides, but more on the M side than the Z side IMHO.
As a famous German dictator proved, you tell the lies often enough and long enough, the people believe them to be the truth. Our media is very good at this.
As far as Texas SYG, I believe it is a good law but still I can only use deadly force when I believe myself or somebody is in fear of grave bodily injury or death.
I do not have all the facts, and I will not pretend to know who was right, but I do know this, it is going to hurt all law abiding citizens when all the rulings and judgements are done.
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Chuck1217
Member
Maybe a good time to remember this- even with a SYG law, if you aren't cleared of a crime after a shooting, you can still be sued for wrongful death- like, a family member could sue ya cause you killed their 'baby.' If you go to trial, and are found INNOCENT, only THEN are you safe froma lawsuit. At least that's what Mas Ayoob said about one state- we all know laws in states are different.
Partially incorrect, at a minimum,, for the following reasons: A defendant is NEVER adjudged "innocent." They are either "guilty" or "not guilty." (And even then there can be variations.) But the prisons are chock full of innocent peops. 
In many jurisdictions a criminal verdict has little bearing on civil proceedings as standards are different. (i.e. "beyond a shadow of doubt" versus "preponderance of evidence.") The OJ Simpson proceedings are prime examples.
Be safe.
In many jurisdictions a criminal verdict has little bearing on civil proceedings as standards are different. (i.e. "beyond a shadow of doubt" versus "preponderance of evidence.") The OJ Simpson proceedings are prime examples.
Be safe.
CowboyKen
Member
Here are links to a more recent, and somewhat different case here in Nevada. There are some issues about the "need" to shoot for self defense.
Intruder killed in Summerlin identified as Las Vegas teen - Wednesday, March 21, 2012 | 2:45 p.m. - Las Vegas Sun
Demarcus Carter « CBS Las Vegas
Mother defends her slain son from behind bars - FOX5 Vegas - KVVU
Any thoughts on shooting a, seemingly, unarmed person through your patio door? He's outside, you are inside.
Ken
Intruder killed in Summerlin identified as Las Vegas teen - Wednesday, March 21, 2012 | 2:45 p.m. - Las Vegas Sun
Demarcus Carter « CBS Las Vegas
Mother defends her slain son from behind bars - FOX5 Vegas - KVVU
Any thoughts on shooting a, seemingly, unarmed person through your patio door? He's outside, you are inside.
Ken
Ltlbear
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Not enough information and too many questions to answer that.
CowboyKen
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OK, here is a link to another story about this shooting.
Man slain in Summerlin yard had lengthy record - News - ReviewJournal.com
This one goes on to say:
Ken
Ltlbear
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Probably would have waited until the door or window was opened. Once the door or window is open, he does not have to be inside, the intent is already there. If he had a screwdriver in his hand I would also consider him armed with a deadly weapon.
Case in OK, guy broke out the lady's sliding glass door so she shot him. He never made it inside. No reason to let them get any closer.
Case in OK, guy broke out the lady's sliding glass door so she shot him. He never made it inside. No reason to let them get any closer.
Let the bike go. Whether a motor bike or not, what you save in lawyer fees will more than replace it. First question to ask yourself, am I willing to pay my lawyer $100/hr to defend me for the action I'm about to commit. When you carry a gun it changes your response to almost any situation you find yourself in. You must retreat when you would rather punch someone's lights out. Much worse, you are morally bound to intervene to save the life of an innocent if required. I was present at a carjacking when the owner was threatened by a man with a bat. If the owner had been struck I would have felt morally compelled to shoot the perp, thank fully he surrendered his keys and I watched the perp drive away without having to draw my weapon. I was very thankful I didn't have to shoot, I am not a wealthy man. If you carry a gun you WILL be held to a higher standard, if you can't accept that, don't carry. I carry a gun because, as Clint Smith says " An armed man will kill an unarmed man with monotonous regularity."
cmort666
Member
Not in Ohio. If I shoot somebody in self-defense and either am not charged, or am acquitted, neither my assailant nor his survivors can collect a PENNY from me.
In Ohio we don't believe that a failed attacker should be able to profit from his lack of skill or luck.
harleydrivinglawnerd
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In MA, I can carry a gun to protect myself from imminent deadly harm.
However, if I can safely retreat, I have a duty to retreat, except if I am in my home (Castle doctrine).
In addition, I cannot escalate the violence. I can't turn a minor argument into a self defense situation.
These seem like reasonable laws to me.
However, if I can safely retreat, I have a duty to retreat, except if I am in my home (Castle doctrine).
In addition, I cannot escalate the violence. I can't turn a minor argument into a self defense situation.
These seem like reasonable laws to me.
seagill
US Veteran
If you see someone in your driveway trying to steal your motorcycle, grab your .44, rush out and put a bullet thru the bike's engine! The thief will no doubt not want to steal it and hopefully will go away. If that plan doesn't work...be sure there's another round in your .44.
SHOOT MY OWN BIKE?
Shame on you for even suggesting that!
tyusclan
Member
This is the case in Florida as well.
TexasArmed
Member
cmort666 I agree with you regarding the protection intended by the castle doctrine. Here is a case in Texas where this law failed to protect the homeowner from a significant expense of over $60,000 after he had to defend a civil case, even after the criminal charges were dismissed.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...g=content;col1
The case was the Graham Chambers shooting in Tyler, Texas 2009 in which the homeowner was not convicted. Although succesful in defending the criminal charges, it being self defense. I would guess that Ohio's castle doctrine is not much different from the one we have in Texas.
+1!!!! A person MUST not keep escalating the situation to a point where HE/SHE is justified to use deadly force.
tyusclan
Member
Florida law specifically states that if you have a legal right to be there, you have no duty to retreat. I don't think it's reasonable to expect me to 'retreat' if that's not where I want to go. I have every right to be there, and the fact that a bad guy is in front of me should not force to go where I don't want to go.
He has the duty to retreat and leave me alone. If he refuses to do that and tries to press an attack or assault, Florida law puts his life in danger. A 'duty to retreat' on the assaulted always give the advantage to the assailant.
Having said that, I do not want to ever shoot anyone. I sincerely hope that no one ever puts me in that position.
geoff40
Member
The laws on using deadly force against a person here in NH clearly state that they do not apply to situations like the Zimmerman case, I think he would be in jail here in NH. One who is given a CCW permit should not go looking for trouble. Even if no criminal charges are filed against Zimmerman, he still has potential civil charges to defend himself against, glad I am not in his shoes.
tyusclan
Member
If the investigation shows that he was justified in the shooting, (and I do not know that it will), and he isn't charged he cannot be sued under Florida law.
amazingflapjack
US Veteran
CCWKY shares my view on this case. The whole matter has been fatally spun by the media. It was only recently that it was brought to my attention that this young man, Martin, was 6' 1" in height. All of the pictures on TV have left the impression that he was this diminutive little guy. All of the photos show him in the best possible light, in my opinion, while this other man is shown in mug shots of some kind, evidently right after the incident; he looks mean and aggressive, what a surprise, adrenaline will have that affect on human beings. Then you have the "poorly advised witlessness " that, for unknown reasons or "motivations" bring their "testimony" to add to the mess. This woman who told about what she "heard" assuming it was Martin asking for help and Zimmerman, "the older, deeper voice," will make finding a jury that is un-tainted, if it gets that far, mighty hard to do. I wanted to begin my questions with, "Now, how many confrontations of this kind have you been involved with,mam ?" and proceed from there, seeing that I would have to start somewhere, and having just to many places to start. I don't know what happened, and thanks to the media, we may never know. One last observation: can someone tell me how the real facts of what happened can be better understood if we could know IF there was a "racial Slur" used in the incident, or was that suggestion just to add some more spice the the mumbo jumbo gumbo. It is interesting that a voice analysis expert was brought into the case, before there was even any charges, much less a trial, unless you count the one conducted my the media. Flapjack
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