STAR Pistols

[ozarkmac]

Been doing some research on these. Thought I might add an older model to my collection. Looking for some expertise on these pistols. Here's some information on one I've been researching:

I'm looking at a Model B, proof mark is the Flaming Circle with a P inside of it. This proof mark is on the flat of the left side of the trigger guard and on the left side of the slide above the safety.

The proof mark year is 1945 designated by the P.

Moving onto serial numbers. The serial number under the butt is "237865" with a B above it indicating the Model Number. There is another "serial number" on the front of the grip using the dotted type engraving. It is engraved as such "SER: B2237865" Note the extra 2 that is different from the single 2 on the butt. Is there supposed to be a serial number on the slide? I've seen them on some models but not on others.

I don't see any import marks unless the dotted serial number on the front of the grip was done by an importer.

Also, there is no engravings on the right side of the frame. Is this correct for this year and model?

Any help would be appreciated. I used the references found on 1911 Forum. Any additional references?

 

[SPEEDGUNNER]

All you need to know is right here: Star Firearms: Find Your Weapon

 

[BigBill]

This can be addicting here's some more.
9mm Largo Webpage

 

[2152hq]

The 'flameing bomb w/a P inside of it' is the Spanish auto pistol proof mark.
The P in this marking meaning Proof. It always stays the same


The year of proof would be a separate letter code stamp to the right of the above.
A 'P' would be correct for a pistol proofed in 1945.

However... I show by ser# the pistol being mfg in 1943.
A Model B mfg in 1945 would be in the 266xx ser# range.
Not that it can't and probably did happen,,but look for a Proof Code marking.
1941..M
1942..N
1943..N w/the accent mark over the letter
1944..O
1945..P

(sometimes letters will have an '*' over them, it doesn't change the meaning or year.)

The Eibar/Spain Proof House exceptance mark is to the left of the flaming bomb mark and is a Knights helmet over a shield w/an X inside the shield.
Together these 3 markings form whats called the triad of pistol proofs on Spanish auto pistols.

The ser# you give from the bottom of the butt of the pistol, 237856, shows in the references I have as a Model B manf in 1943.
230826 to 240990 mfg in one particular batch 1943 (not the total output for 1943).
I also show the ser# 237856 to be within the final delivery of 5000 STAR Model B pistol to the Bulgarian Gov't Ministry of Defense in 1944 from Star.
Total Bulgarian Govt contract was for 15,000 pistols
The final delivery of 5000 was made on 3/23/44. Ser #'s 235901-240900 were the final delivery bunch.
Should be a standard commercial pistol with NO German WW2 Military markings.
Many of these pistols were surplused and imported into the USA in the 90's after the Communist regime had fallen in Bulgaria.
Heavily refinished and some obtained faked German Waffenampt mark (WaA251) to boost sales. Even Model B's out of the Bulgarian contract range got fake markings sometimes.
The Waffenampt marking will be found on Star Model B pistols ISSUED to German military forces.

The added serial number on the front of the grip may be an importer or other retailers addition..doesn't really make a lot of sense.
That ser# and 'B' model designation from the factory on the bottom of the grip frame is the real ser#.

The only Star A or B model I can recall w/ numbered slides were Spanish Military issue,,and that number and it's corresponding matching frame number were a Military Issue #,,not the ser#.
Usually found on the left side one above the other, they have been mistaken as the pistols ser# many times.

Some early mfg Model B pistols that went to German forces used an Issue Number also. They are usually found stamped on the right side of the slide and frame at the breech end. Again, the issue numbers (and sometimes a letter) match each other, but have nothing to do with the guns ser#.

Most Star and other Spanish made pistols use Roman Numerals during production, simply hand stamped w/a single blade tool or even scratched into the metal to keep track of matching parts and to a master parts tray they are working from.
Done on inside surfaces so as not to mar the finish, they can be used to tell if a slide, frame and some other parts are matching.
The Numeral itself means nothing but it is an easy, quick way to mark the parts and keep them matched up during mfg.

 

[DWalt]

As it seems there are some Star Model B fanciers here, I will ask a question. I have a neighbor (quite elderly) who has a 9mm Star Model B. He has a difficult time pulling the trigger, not helped by his arthritis. He asked if I could do anything about lightening the trigger pull. I do have Star B disassembly instructions, but no experience in doing anything like lightening a Star's trigger pull. Does anyone know what's involved?

 

[BigBill]

Never mind the trigger pull can he rack the slide?

 

[ky wonder]

this 1945 p marked specimen is in the 2730xx serial range,
it has no lanyard cuts or access holes for the pins, but does have the
08 cal. marking on the barrel

 

[ozarkmac]

2152hq, Thanks so much for all the information and your time. I see some type of engraving but I can't tell what it is next to the flaming bomb with a P, but I can't quite make it out. It might have been that Knight's Helmet but I sure can't tell.
Maybe I missed, but should the right side of the slide be "mark" free? This one is. Also, the store wants $520 out the door for it. Is that a fair price or should I hold for one that has the triad of proof marks?

 

[ozarkmac]

On a second look, it looks like something with an X above it but it is to the left of the slide stop above the flaming P that is on the trigger guard flat. Must be the symbols you are referring to. Can't tell that it is a knights helmet but I can see something by the X now that you told me what to look for.

 

[samnev]

I have both the Model B and Super Model B. Both are well made solid shooters. However the Model B really pinches the web of my palm. Were the Super B with its longer tang does not. Unless you have small hands I'd get the Super B. Besides that it has a rich deep blue finish rather than the parkerized finish on the B.

 

[ozarkmac]

I have both the Model B and Super Model B. Both are well made solid shooters. However the Model B really pinches the web of my palm. Were the Super B with its longer tang does not. Unless you have small hands I'd get the Super B. Besides that it has a rich deep blue finish rather than the parkerized finish on the B.

Thanks for that information. I'm actually looking for one as a historical piece that I don't plan on using as a full-time shooter, maybe a couple mags or so just to get a feel for it and see how it shoots so that's why I'm looking at the B Model.

I may go ahead and get a Super B as a shooter at some point though.

 

[ozarkmac]

2152hq, I sent you a PM.

 

[ozarkmac]

Star Markings

This can be addicting here's some more.
9mm Largo Webpage

Big Bill, this reference had additional markings that were not in any of the others I reviewed and in fact I was able to identify the markings as a 1943 as 2152hq indicated. I can now see the N with the wave above it and the partial Knights Head with the X in the Shield. Really appreciate it!

 

[ISCS Yoda]

It's a funny thing, I make a lot of personal, negative comments about 1911-style pistols but one of the guns I have that I would never consider parting with is my Star Model S. I need to get a picture of it and put it in an album here. It is basically what used to be called a "Government .380" but unlike Colt Government .380s and the similar Llama models it doesn't have a grip safety. What it does have, despite its rudimentary sights, is incredible accuracy. The original grips on it (some kind of polymer) cracked and if you screwed the top right hand grip screw in too tightly it touched the operating mechanism and the gun would simply lock up. When Ajax Grips was still around I had them make me a set of rosewood grips for it. I need to get a picture on here because it is REALLY good looking.

Star pistols have been/are underrated all the time. The links above will be fun to pore through.

 

[ozarkmac]

ISCS Yoda, can't wait to see it. You know, I'm wanting one of the Model B's because I like the old school 1911 type pistols and just want one for the history, but since I've started researching the Star pistols, I've heard this over and over from Star owners. I'll probably end up getting a shooter at some point.

 

[Walter Rego]

Here is a Star Model S for Yoda along with a Super A in 9mm Largo. Stars are wonderful pistols if you get a good one, but unfortunately as Star was struggling financially in their last few years of operation a lot of poorly refinished and rebuilt guns that they took in trade from the Spanish Military towards new pistols were dumped onto the market, mostly the US. Those are the ones that you see people on a lot of gun forums having problems with. I would stay away from the heavily buffed and refinished Stars with huge import marks, chances are good that they will need tinkering and parts are almost non-existent.
I almost failed to mention that the Model S is fairly unique in that it is a locked breech .380 rather than the usual blowback operation. It is similar to a 1911 pattern pistol with a swinging link and barrel that tilts down. This makes it a lot more comfortable to shoot than most .380's.

 

[BC38]

...unlike Colt Government .380s and the similar Llama models it doesn't have a grip safety...

Unless you mis-typed this or I'm mis-reading you. it appears you may have misinformation. The Colt "Government Model" 380 does not have a grip safety - or at least my all steel version doesn't. I have never seen one that does - and none of the "Mustang" derivatives I have seen have the grip safety either.

I almost failed to mention that the Model S is fairly unique in that it is a locked breech .380 rather than the usual blowback operation. It is similar to a 1911 pattern pistol with a swinging link and barrel that tilts down. This makes it a lot more comfortable to shoot than most .380's.

If I am understanding your description correctly, this sounds like you are describing the exact system on the little Colt Government Model .380 also. The barrel has the big square lug on the bottom at the breach end with a kind of oblong, curved hole milled through it. The take-down pin/lever passes through the frame and through that hole in the barrel lug and the curvature of the hole is what tilts the breach of the barrel down when the slide moves backwards out of battery under recoil.

 

[ozarkmac]

Star B

this 1945 p marked specimen is in the 2730xx serial range,
it has no lanyard cuts or access holes for the pins, but does have the
08 cal. marking on the barrel

KY WONDER, I just picked up one with that same barrel, etc, it's a P marked, serial number 266593.

 

[2152hq]

STAR used the Cal. 08 (and some are marked Patr/08) caliber marking on the bbl till the end of WW2. Their entire output was for German Military or other Axis forces with some going to Germany for commercial sales. The Model B only started production in 1941/2.
The distinctive Cal.08 reference is to the Luger P08 and it's 9mm cartridge (patronen). The Germans also marked other foreign weapons converted to fire the 9mmLuger with the same designation like the Steyr 1911.

The Star Model B from the Bulgarian contract in unmolested condition would bring a decent price and a premium over a standard B.

So many 'faked' German Waffenampt marked Model B pistols and heavily refinished imports are around that a clean specimen gets noticed. Not nearly in the class/$$ of Lugers and Walthers, it's still a WW2 issue handgun from the Axis.

Heavy trigger pull can be a number of things on the Star design. So very different from the Colt 1911, with it's trigger bar on the right side of the frame exposed just under the grip, it's prone to 'adjustment' by people who should be doing anything to them.
Sear engagement is usually not the problem, but later pistols can have thinly cas hardened surfaces on the hammer and wear through causing the sear to drag.
The thumb safety can cause problems, When working right you shold be able to engage it with the thumb only and see the hammer cam back off the sear. You should NOT have to use your other hand to pull the hammer back a small amt to then engage the safety. Doing this latter move shows the safety and/or the sear & hammer parts are worn inside. That wear can also cause a heavy trigger pull as well as the safety movement problem.
The disconnector is under the right grip also. If it doesn't move freely up and down with slide movement andallow the trigger bar to re-engage the sear after the slide closes, heavey trigger pull or even skip-by of the trigger can occure.
The disconnector slot in the frame is sometimes seen lightly peened to take up sloppy side to side movement (it's a dovetail fit). Too tight and things don't slide smoothly.
Bent sear pin, bent hammer pin or either of those pivot holes in the frame worn off center or oval in shape can effect trigger pull,,same stuff as most any 1911 type pistol.
The slides usually rack pretty easily in the Star A,B and Super A &B. One reason I kept using them with my less than usefull left hand.
But check for the slide closing completely and releasing the disconnector all the way.

 

[fyimo]

I once owned a Fire Star in 40 S&W and it was a reliable pistol. I sold it but not because it wasn't a good pistol but because they weren't being made anymore or supported.