OP
cromagnonmatt
Member
This forum exceeds my expectations! Such great information and wise advice. The people on this forum are awesome!
Stolen gun returned!
- Thread starter cromagnonmatt
- Start date
I'll bet no arrests were made in that case. I have seen the same thing with relatives. Even when the person passing is a pauper, some relatives will feel entitled to take the little that is left.
I have also been involved in such cases and recommended the family member in charge make an announcement of what is missing and verification that serial numbers are recorded. Then comment that (whatever) may have loaned and for everyone to please check and return any loaned items before a report is filed and missing items are entered as stolen.
Mr. Wonderful
Member
I had a somewhat related situation come up a few years ago. A lady friend called me, and said her grandmother had passed away. The grandma was a rich widow that lived in a very exclusive part of Miami.
My friend was the executrix of the will, and it was a multi-million dollar estate involved.
One of the other family members showed up secretly (from out of town) and had access to the property, and apparently the safe. Several valuable paintings along with an unknown amount of jewelry was missing.
Two items that remained were an old Colt .25 auto, and a really rare Winchester 1892 Trapper's Saddle Ring Carbine in 25-20 WCF. My friend wanted me "to get rid of them". I told her the guns, especially the Winchester were likely to be valuable, but I would need to do some research first to find out how much. (I'm not a Winchester guy.)
She said, listen... I'm not messing around here, the estate is huge, and I want them gone. I don't want to handle this. What can you do?
I told her, "you can give them to the police when the have a gun buy-back, and you'll get two $50 gift certificates, or I can take them to a gun shop or show for you... and I'll give you the proceeds."
She said, listen... either buy them NOW from the estate for $50 each, or take them to the police. Your choice.
Oh yeah... you know what happened next. The Colt was worth maybe $200 at best, but the Winchester was worth over $2,000.
Sometimes you just get lucky.
Roger aka Mr. Wonderful
My friend was the executrix of the will, and it was a multi-million dollar estate involved.
One of the other family members showed up secretly (from out of town) and had access to the property, and apparently the safe. Several valuable paintings along with an unknown amount of jewelry was missing.
Two items that remained were an old Colt .25 auto, and a really rare Winchester 1892 Trapper's Saddle Ring Carbine in 25-20 WCF. My friend wanted me "to get rid of them". I told her the guns, especially the Winchester were likely to be valuable, but I would need to do some research first to find out how much. (I'm not a Winchester guy.)
She said, listen... I'm not messing around here, the estate is huge, and I want them gone. I don't want to handle this. What can you do?
I told her, "you can give them to the police when the have a gun buy-back, and you'll get two $50 gift certificates, or I can take them to a gun shop or show for you... and I'll give you the proceeds."
She said, listen... either buy them NOW from the estate for $50 each, or take them to the police. Your choice.
Oh yeah... you know what happened next. The Colt was worth maybe $200 at best, but the Winchester was worth over $2,000.
Sometimes you just get lucky.
Roger aka Mr. Wonderful
My older brother died and by the time his son got to the house it was stripped. Bah humbug
Having been an executor of a very small estate and also in charge of a auction of a family member's home and contents, I can somewhat relate to the lady who was tasked with this. It can be overwhelming. What I did was go through the contents the best I could and tried to separate what might have value from what didn't appear to have a lot of value. I sold the things I thought had value individually and either let the auctioneer handle the rest or donated them to the Salvation Army. Luckily, in both cases, I didn't have greedy relatives trying to steal items or interfere with the process. I did have someone with sticky fingers lift a few valuable vinyl record albums. Anyone who agrees to be an executor should really consider very honestly if they want to deal with it. My first suggestion would be to change any locks and secure the premises, as well as, change any safe combinations. Get a good attorney (the laws are very burdensome). Hire some people that are trustworthy to help. Don't be modest, if the estate has great value, pay yourself for your time. That way the deceased can have his/her wishes honored.
Memphis
Member
Hondo44 and AlHunt, regarding those double stamped grips on these Transitional 1917's, I'm still not sure what went on when that happened or why it happened but here's what I do know, bettis1, Allen-Frame, 45wheelgun (one of our administrators) and myself all have an example of the two serial numbered grips. In each of these cases I believe there is an exact match to the rest of the gun and then the second number that doesn't match. I have to scratch my head but with at least 4 know occurances there has to be some legitimacy to what we are seeing.
I wonder how many more are out there...AND I wonder why we see this.
Roger
I wonder how many more are out there...AND I wonder why we see this.
Roger
I've actually seen family members fighting, I mean struggling, over household items while the deceased is still in the room. Common theft after the death of a family member is actually very common. Kinda depressing if you think about it too much.
crsides
US Veteran, SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
Hi Roger,
Well I like a good S&W mystery.
Just to clarify, the right grip has two serial #s stamped on the back; one matches the gun and the other doesn't. More specifics needed:
Are both numbers on the grip the same # of digits?
How far apart are they numerically?
Where is the matching # oriented on the grip?
Where is the non-matching # oriented?
A real basic question just to get it off the table: does the non-matching # match the assembly # in the yoke?
There is precedent for this although not common.
Looking forward to the additional details needed.
S&WIowegan
US Veteran
Many years ago when my wife and I were in our 20s her grandmother passed and we went to the funeral. The four children of the deceased had some mild squabbles over a few items of modest value. That made a lasting impression on us. My father-in-law had a daughter who is a trust and estate lawyer and she worked with him to set up exactly how he wanted his estate distributed. Worked out well.
My folks nearly outlived their assets(which I consider perfect) but there was some value left. I had made it specifically clear I didn't want to be in the will nor be executor. I have been much more fortunate financially than my sibs and I knew they would be anxious to receive whatever was left. I did not want to be a witness to any unpleasantness. It worked out OK and never gets discussed. Truth be told I didn't want to take the chance I'd get angry and say something I'd regret.
My folks nearly outlived their assets(which I consider perfect) but there was some value left. I had made it specifically clear I didn't want to be in the will nor be executor. I have been much more fortunate financially than my sibs and I knew they would be anxious to receive whatever was left. I did not want to be a witness to any unpleasantness. It worked out OK and never gets discussed. Truth be told I didn't want to take the chance I'd get angry and say something I'd regret.
Eddie Southgate
Member
Glad you got it back .
Eddie
Eddie
It is depressing. I saw some squabbling when my mother passed. She was dirt poor, but her sister felt entitled to take certain things from her apartment and even demanded flowers at the funeral home. Some people have no class and are callous.
Possibly this should get it's own thread when information starts to gather. A picture of an example would be fun. It might be an interesting diversion.
OP
cromagnonmatt
Member
I pulled the grips off last night and noticed there is an S prefix to the serial number like you mentioned. The serial numbers on the grips (one side to be specific), cylinder, underside of barrel and butt all match. Any idea what the S prefix means?
29aholic
Member
All post war serial numbers have a prefix, which is in line with the fact that is a post war transitional. The S prefix was originally for N frames, but due to the 1968 GCA it would later be changed to the N. Due to S&W's practice of stamping numbers on frames in advance of building a gun the change didn't actually take place until about 1970. In those years frame sizes shared blocks of numbers. It would not be unusual for a consecutive pair of guns be two totally different models. To add to the confusion, and part of the reason for the change, is there were some K frames that had an S prefix so there was a chance that there was two guns with the same serial number.
K frames with adjustable sights had the K in the serial number. Fixed sight guns originally had a C (?) then later a D...IIRW.
Somewhere in the 80's with the introduction of the multiple letter prefix (AAAXXX and so on) serial number blocks were shared among all frame sizes. I have both a Model 29-3 and a Model 60 with the prefix AFS. I don't know if all S&W's shared the serial number block or if it was broken up between revolvers and autos.
K frames with adjustable sights had the K in the serial number. Fixed sight guns originally had a C (?) then later a D...IIRW.
Somewhere in the 80's with the introduction of the multiple letter prefix (AAAXXX and so on) serial number blocks were shared among all frame sizes. I have both a Model 29-3 and a Model 60 with the prefix AFS. I don't know if all S&W's shared the serial number block or if it was broken up between revolvers and autos.
When my grandfather died, one of my uncles swooped in and stole everything he could.
He took all the guns, hunting/fishing/camping equipment, tools, and lawn/garden tools.
He even took my grandfather's new riding mower.
The only gun he didn't get was the Mossberg .22 rifle that my grandfather gave me 3 months before he died.
At the wake, my uncle was asking what had happened to "that old .22".
I replied with "You mean the Mossberg 151M(b)?".
He said "Yeah, that one".
I said, "It's at home, in my closet" (3 states away).
He said "expletive, expletive, expletive, that's my expletive .22!"
My dad explained that granddad gave it to me the prior Thanksgiving.
I told my uncle, "If you think you're man enough, you can try to take it from me".
He said a few more expletives.
I asked him "Haven't you already stolen enough of PawPaw's things?"
I guess he wasn't man enough to take it from me. I will never let it go.
It's not the most valuable one he had, but it humiliated my 10/22 so badly that the 10/22 had to go.
Then, there's the fact that it belonged to my granddad.
It started a lifelong love of old Mossberg .22s.
Yeah, my uncle has no class.
I'm embarrased to be related to him.
He took all the guns, hunting/fishing/camping equipment, tools, and lawn/garden tools.
He even took my grandfather's new riding mower.
The only gun he didn't get was the Mossberg .22 rifle that my grandfather gave me 3 months before he died.
At the wake, my uncle was asking what had happened to "that old .22".
I replied with "You mean the Mossberg 151M(b)?".
He said "Yeah, that one".
I said, "It's at home, in my closet" (3 states away).
He said "expletive, expletive, expletive, that's my expletive .22!"
My dad explained that granddad gave it to me the prior Thanksgiving.
I told my uncle, "If you think you're man enough, you can try to take it from me".
He said a few more expletives.
I asked him "Haven't you already stolen enough of PawPaw's things?"
I guess he wasn't man enough to take it from me. I will never let it go.
It's not the most valuable one he had, but it humiliated my 10/22 so badly that the 10/22 had to go.
Then, there's the fact that it belonged to my granddad.
It started a lifelong love of old Mossberg .22s.
Yeah, my uncle has no class.
I'm embarrased to be related to him.
Last edited:
When my mom passed, I arrived at her home in Maine with my wife and one of my daughters. My sister, who was my mom's executrix and checkbook signatory, was already at the house with her husband and a bunch of cardboard boxes and bubble wrap from Walmart, rushing things out to the rental car before we had arrived.
My BIL was bitching that they could find every receipt for every bill that my folks had paid over the years but could not find a copy of the will. My mother had already transferred ownership of the summer cabin to my daughter and I years prior, so my sister and BIL were curious about the disposition of the house and 7.5 acres.
As it turned out, the will was eventually found and mom had left the house to sister and I on a 50/50 basis. Since I had already received the cabin, this went up my BIL's butt rather abruptly.
As the executrix, my sister listed the house on 7.5 acres with a Realtor for $90,000 and when the first offer of $71,000 was tendered, she accepted. I had suggested that we sell the house with 2 acres and keep the back 5.5 acres in the family for the future, but my suggestion fell on deaf ears.
Money breeds ill will and even within families. It is a real shame.
My BIL was bitching that they could find every receipt for every bill that my folks had paid over the years but could not find a copy of the will. My mother had already transferred ownership of the summer cabin to my daughter and I years prior, so my sister and BIL were curious about the disposition of the house and 7.5 acres.
As it turned out, the will was eventually found and mom had left the house to sister and I on a 50/50 basis. Since I had already received the cabin, this went up my BIL's butt rather abruptly.
As the executrix, my sister listed the house on 7.5 acres with a Realtor for $90,000 and when the first offer of $71,000 was tendered, she accepted. I had suggested that we sell the house with 2 acres and keep the back 5.5 acres in the family for the future, but my suggestion fell on deaf ears.
Money breeds ill will and even within families. It is a real shame.
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