Stove Pipe with M&P22

[bolewine]

I have seen other posts that some people are having the same problem. When the mag is firmly placed in the gun, with the slide open and the slide is released – it stove pipes. Every time, with every one of my five mags. I don't want to hear place the mag gently-that is unacceptable! And does not fix this issue. I have never seen this before. For any action shooting this gun is useless as is. Someone out there has to know how to correct this problem. I called S&W. the rep. on the phone suggested that I bend the mag lips to prevent the round from popping up when the mag is firmly seated. I have never messed with mags. Don't know much about modifying mags. I'm real sure the problem is with the mag. once the gun gets running it shoots great. I could use all the help I can get on this one.

 

[Peug]

I had to lightly sand my new mags around the top where you load it.
It solved my ftf and fte issues.

 

[shield]

Have not had this issue with my 4 mags. Next time I'm at the range I'll try inserting harder than I normally do.

 

[M&P Freak]

With the slide locked back, you can watch it happen when a full mag is inserted hard - like many of us do with our centerfire M&Ps. No need to close the slide to see the problem, the first round will go nose-up while it's still in the mag. Once this happens, the odds of the round actually making it into the chamber are exactly zero.

I don't see this as a problem, just a nuisance. Once you learn to cool-it when inserting the mags, it does not happen. No need to slam 'em home. It's not like it's a self-defense weapon, it's a trainer/plinker.

 

[Maddmax]

With the slide locked back, you can watch it happen when a full mag is inserted hard - like many of us do with our centerfire M&Ps. No need to close the slide to see the problem, the first round will go nose-up while it's still in the mag. Once this happens, the odds of the round actually making it into the chamber are exactly zero.

I don't see this as a problem, just a nuisance. Once you learn to cool-it when inserting the mags, it does not happen. No need to slam 'em home. It's not like it's a self-defense weapon, it's a trainer/plinker.

I agree. No need to "slam the mag home" on the M&P 22. Just insert it and go.

 

[Wee Hooker]

My guess (!!) is that when you slam the mag home, the front/unsupported end of the top round it kicking up so that when the slide hits it, it misses the breech just over the top edge. A slower/smoother load would likely cure it but so might a slight (!!) pinching adjustment of the front edge of the mag lips.
This tweak used to cure my old Hi standard pistols anyway (which used the mag lips to feed the round exclusively.)

 

[shield]

My guess (!!) is that when you slam the mag home, the front/unsupported end of the top round it kicking up so that when the slide hits it, it misses the breech just over the top edge. ...

Right, I just experimented with one of my mags with the slide locked back, slammed it in and saw the front of the round pop up. Then trying to close the slide caused it to stove pipe. I'll just go with my usual, gentler method of putting the mag in . I have no need to slam it in for target shooting.

 

[bolewine]

So I think I got it now. This is not a training tool; it's just a $400.00 plinker. If you attempt any kind of tactical reload on the move as in training for IDPA, steel challenge, or any kind of combat training. You would have to slow down and gently insert the mag. which would cost you time, or ultimately your life! Bad habits are hard to break that's why we train. And the tools we use to train should mimic the real tools we use for competition or combat training. I stated in my OP that I really didn't want to hear insert the mag gently! I need to find a way to fix this. After thousands of rounds through my M&P 9 fs and shield, I have never experienced this kind of malfunction. And as far as a target pistol NO WAY! My 22a is more accurate and has a much better trigger. My fs M&P will auto forward the slide if you send the mag home firmly. Nice feature! I don't expect this 22 to do the same but I should be able to train with it in the same manner as the fs. What I have here is a gun that looks like an M&P but does not function like an M&P, shame on you Smith and Wesson! And shame on all of you who are willing change your training methods to accommodate this malfunction.

 

[M&P Freak]

I use the M&P22 to dramatically reduce the cost of trigger time. I have modified the gun to have the identical sight picture as my M&P45s, so aiming and trigger control is close enough for me to consider the gun an excellent analog.

Have you tired loading only five or six rounds in the magazine? It may help by reducing the spring pressure on the first round. Since it already holds less than 17 rounds, this should not be an training issue.

Other than that, I don't see a way to fix it. Looking at the magazine, the lips are already is "pinched" at the end that needs the support, so decreasing the opening a bit may help, but at some point it will stop working altogether.

 

[endthefed1776]

With the slide locked back, you can watch it happen when a full mag is inserted hard - like many of us do with our centerfire M&Ps. No need to close the slide to see the problem, the first round will go nose-up while it's still in the mag. Once this happens, the odds of the round actually making it into the chamber are exactly zero.
.

Yup my friends M&P .22 does the same thing and you can see its going to stovepipe before you release the slide. Its a bit annoying.

 

[ozarker321]

So I think I got it now. This is not a training tool; it's just a $400.00 plinker. If you attempt any kind of tactical reload on the move as in training for IDPA, steel challenge, or any kind of combat training. You would have to slow down and gently insert the mag. which would cost you time, or ultimately your life! Bad habits are hard to break that's why we train. And the tools we use to train should mimic the real tools we use for competition or combat training. I stated in my OP that I really didn't want to hear insert the mag gently! I need to find a way to fix this. After thousands of rounds through my M&P 9 fs and shield, I have never experienced this kind of malfunction. And as far as a target pistol NO WAY! My 22a is more accurate and has a much better trigger. My fs M&P will auto forward the slide if you send the mag home firmly. Nice feature! I don't expect this 22 to do the same but I should be able to train with it in the same manner as the fs. What I have here is a gun that looks like an M&P but does not function like an M&P, shame on you Smith and Wesson! And shame on all of you who are willing change your training methods to accommodate this malfunction.

My experience and feelings exactly. I bought this gun specifically as a trainer to save money on ammo. Since you will fight like you train, having to either drop the slide before a tactical reload or gently seat the magazine (the reason for slamming it is to ensure it seats properly) makes this a useless training gun. It is really just a VERY expensive plinker. Not pleased with it at all, and I just bought it and had it to the range once (shot 600 rounds). Also had several FTE/FTF with the ammo I tried (Winchester Tactical, Federal).

Surely S&W or Walther can fix the magazines so they don't flip up the round when the magazine is inserted with the slide open. Anybody have any fixes for this?

 

[catcus-jack]

Doing a tactical reload should not be a problem as the slide is already closed and a round in the chamber.You have ejected a partialy spent magazine and replaced it with a full one.While still having a round in the chamber.A slidelock reload is done when you have expended all the ammo in your weapon and the slide locks to the rear with an empty chamber.A slidelock reload may be a problem.They are 2 completely different reloads.It is not a problem to slow your reloading down while training and focus on proper loading mechanics.

 

[Rufus]

We want these M&P 22s to be a trainer for the M&P 9 or 40 because they have the same feel and frame. However, we need to remember that these are quite different guns in the way they operate. These are Walthers guns with a S&W brand on them.

 

[1fly2ty]

Have not had any problems with mine but tweeking the lips of the mag will prevent this! I do understand the problem your having as do others however I would like to correct some terms you are using, what your gun is doing is a Failure to Feed, not a stove pipe. When a pistol stovepipes the round has fired and the empty brass is now trapped between the breech face and the slide and the case looks like a pipe sticking out of the gun. Thanks for listening and good luck with your problem.

 

[catcus-jack]

His problem does resemble a stove pipe but instead of an empty casing sticking up it is the loaded round sticking up like a stove pipe.

 

[ozarker321]

His problem does resemble a stove pipe but instead of an empty casing sticking up it is the loaded round sticking up like a stove pipe.

That is correct.

 

[1fly2ty]

Hi Cactus,
Yup thats why I stated it is a failure to feed the round out of the magazine! Its all about timing and I agree with him that you shouldn't have to baby the mag during a tactical reload, if the magazine lips release the round to soon it pops the nose of the round too high,so if you tweek the lips to hold the round a little longer the round no longer pops up. Feeding issues are most frequently related to the mags lips, and 1911's are notorious for the same problem, in fact Brownells makes a block that you stick down into the 1911 mag so you can tap the lips down to correct this deficency, but I don't recall seeing one for a 22. Any how I think the Op can correct his problem its just going to take a little bit of trial and error. Should't have to do this to a new gun but when you shoot stuff like steel challenge you gotta have everything working correctly! I haven't shot my new M&P 22 competively yet as I rely on A Browning that performs really well!

 

[catcus-jack]

You don't have to baby it doing a Tactical reload.You have to baby it during a slide lock reload.2 completely different types of reloads.

 

[MP22]

No issues with my M&P22 thank goodness.

 

[Kacz]

I might have posted one of the threads you read regarding this. I initially had many problems with my M&P22 including what you are describing. It now works flawless with just about any ammo and even when smashing mags into it during a slide locked reload. Full disclosure though I don't think you will ever 100% eliminate the occasional pop up of the top round based strictly on the design of a .22LR cartridge single stacked 12 (or 10) deep out of a full size M&P platform, but it shouldn't happen to you every time. Here is how I cut it down drastically:

First, the gunk it was covered in from the factory (I think they submerged mine in it) seemed to take 3 range sessions @ 500 rounds each, with a good cleaning after each session to work all the way out. I do believe this goop caused a lot of my early issues. The positive was it also helped me find the right wet/dry balance my particular .22 "likes" to run reliably. Now what really made the difference for me was that I used to break the mags down and clean them spotless inside and out – I don't do this anymore. I will wipe the outside and maybe the top of the ramp but the inside of the mag is grimy. I feel like the grit and grime helps hold the smaller .22s in place and creates an abrasive surface, particularly on the inside of the lips where I formerly had it very smooth and slick with CLP. IMO this helps hold the thin and light .22 cartridge in place better when the mag is being decisively loaded. Any excess buildup the the next round takes with it! .22s get dirty fast either way and this doesn't really make any difference. FYI, the rest of the gun I keep very clean and a touch on the "wet" side, rails oiled well. In short, a clean gun and a dirty mag has worked well for me. YMMV.