Strange Model 41????? Any input on it???

[02-fatboy]

Hello all, I recently sold my S&W model 422 and decided to buy something different. Strangely enough I bought another S&W this time I bought a model 41.

Here is the strange thing, I have never seen another one like it. At first I wasn't sure if it was stainless or aluminum or what?? However I quickly realized it was steel. My thoughts are that it was professionally refinished??? However a friend told me S&W has been known for doing some strange custom guns???

So was this gun refinished or a factory job?? Any thoughts? However did the work if its not factory did an awesome job, it shows no signs of ever being blued, and they even did the clip to match. They must have take it apart because all the cracks and crevices are done and it appears almost as though it were a factory finish???

Any idea on what was used to refinish this? The stampings are all still visible bright as day, and it doesn't appear to have been blasted as the finish is smooth??? Any idea on the value of this gun??? I think I got a good deal on it but I only bought it as a shooter for use on my thursday night pistol league. My friend dated it for me and the serial number says it was produced between 1960 and 1969.

 

[justicetyme]

Just a guess of course without seeing it in person but it looks like hard chrome to me.

This was a very common practice on on competition pistols several years ago.

If you look through some old American Handgunner mags you will see a lot of 1911s that were used in competition that were hard chrome plated.

Sometimes just the frame was plated giving the two tone effect that was in vogue back then.

J.

 

[02-fatboy]

interesting I thought if it was hard chromed it would be more shiny?? But it would make sense. Only hope it shoots well. I am expecting an upgrade from my 422 I had been shooting. Strangely enough it kinds of reminds me of my 422 slightly in looks, however the feel is totally different starting with the weight. I used to think the extra weight would be cumbersome, however I am wondering if it will actually help since it will steady my hand when shooting one handed.

 

[VaRecon]

Yep, like he said.
The brightness depends on how much you polish it but the hard chrome typically isn't flashy.
A finish with a sharp glare makes a poor sight picture.
Factory offers refinishing services if you decide you don't like it.
If you don't mind how much did you pick it up for?

 

[grif684]

Just a guess of course without seeing it in person but it looks like hard chrome to me.

This was a very common practice on on competition pistols several years ago.

If you look through some old American Handgunner mags you will see a lot of 1911s that were used in competition that were hard chrome plated.

Sometimes just the frame was plated giving the two tone effect that was in vogue back then.

J.

What he said ^.......hard chrome.....

 

[justicetyme]

When people think of 'chrome' they sometimes also think of 'shiny'.

However, what is referred to as hard chrome was developed for the manufacturing industry to make parts 'harder'. It's content would probably never produce the 'shine' one thinks of with chrome as it is a somewhat different content.

On a 1911 the slide frame fit was just a tad looser to make up for the additional thickness of the hard chrome.

The old hard chromed 1911s would run for and run once properly set up as there would be virtually no wear on the rails.

At one time Magnum Research offered a hard chromed Desert Eagle from their custom shop.

J.

 

[BUFF]

It's possible it has a nickel finish. Here's one for sale.

S&W Model 41 Target Pistol

There is no photo of the gun up for auction, but the description ("gold plated trigger") is clearly not anything S&W ever made.

The M-41 the O.P. pictured above is either aftermarket hard chrome or electroless nickel. Great for a shooter but deminishes the value from the original blue.

 

[02-fatboy]

All very interesting. This particular gun is nickel plated not original. I don't think they made one of these guns in a finish other than blued? Unless you get a 41S which I believe would be stainless but that gun would be slightly different and have an S stamped after the 41.

S&W Model 41 Target Pistol

What I find most interesting is that this listing shows the gun as being valued between 500 to 700 dollars but it sold for 1000? So more realistically a gun thats been nickel plated or hardchromed in fair shape like this is probably worth somewhere between 700 and 1000 dollars. That seems crazy to me.

 

[Gunhacker]

It's an auction... people pay crazy prices if they want something bad enough, and see something that really floats their boat . Case in point, ebay where blue plastic S&W gun props that originally cost $1.50 are being bidded up and going for $50+.

But that M41 is also and an earlier model with the muzzle brake and screw in barrel weights, which adds value plated or not, since they aren't made that way anymore.

There also seems to be a consensus that the early "A" prefixed s/n M41's are superior to the newer ones, and people are willing to pay extra for them too.

 

[smithfan4152]

Chrome 41

I have a 52-2 that has a satin chrome finish to it, and I know
its not factory, it shoots so well, I dont mind the finish, and
its great because your not having to be so careful with the finish.
Its the perfect shooter for me.
There is one Stainless Steel Model 41 I know of, and have seen pictures
of the gun. The guy worked for S&W and made it for himself.

 

[02-fatboy]

It's an auction... people pay crazy prices if they want something bad enough, and see something that really floats their boat . Case in point, ebay where blue plastic S&W gun props that originally cost $1.50 are being bidded up and going for $50+.

But that M41 is also and an earlier model with the muzzle brake and screw in barrel weights, which adds value plated or not, since they aren't made that way anymore.

There also seems to be a consensus that the early "A" prefixed s/n M41's are superior to the newer ones, and people are willing to pay extra for them too.

All really great points. What years were the early M41's made with all the features you were talking about?? Either way I am very happy to own my M41 after talking to everyone here. I guess I will really find out how much I like it when I shoot it either next tuesday or next thursday at pistol league. Its kind of cool how a M41 22 can weigh so much especially after having shot a model 422 for the last year and a half which weighs almost nothing in comparison

 

[GMAN]

It is possibly a hard chrome finish by Spokhandguns of Washington. I have a 41 that was done by them except for the barrel. The way they finished it, it looks just like stainless. I have seen several others by them, all the same, the best hard chrome finish I have ever seen. Mine was done around 30 years ago, not sure they are still in business.

 

[civil1977]

All very interesting. This particular gun is nickel plated not original. I don't think they made one of these guns in a finish other than blued? Unless you get a 41S which I believe would be stainless but that gun would be slightly different and have an S stamped after the 41.

There were a very few factory Nickel Model 41 which have been documented but the one shown in the auction does not appear to be factory. There is no such thing as a 41S..... suppose S&W would have called a stainless steel version a 641 since they tended to use a 6 prefix for stainless steel versions of regular models. I suppose there could be a one off stainless version as one previous poster mention but it would have taken considerable effort to produce as I understand the tooling necessary to make a stainless steel gun differs from that used for carbon steel.

The front sight on the OP's gun has been modified too, probably to make it easier to see after the refinishing. Never seen a red ramp on a 5.5" heavy barrel....they always had Patridge blades.

Muzzle brake, internal weights and cocking indicator all disappeared around 1978.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

Armaloy.....

 

[02-fatboy]

There were a very few factory Nickel Model 41 which have been documented but the one shown in the auction does not appear to be factory. There is no such thing as a 41S..... suppose S&W would have called a stainless steel version a 641 since they tended to use a 6 prefix for stainless steel versions of regular models. I suppose there could be a one off stainless version as one previous poster mention but it would have taken considerable effort to produce as I understand the tooling necessary to make a stainless steel gun differs from that used for carbon steel.

The front sight on the OP's gun has been modified too, probably to make it easier to see after the refinishing. Never seen a red ramp on a 5.5" heavy barrel....they always had Patridge blades.

Muzzle brake, internal weights and cocking indicator all disappeared around 1978.

A good friend of mine told me they made a model 41S in stainless. I just looked and I was unable to find one anywhere???? I guess I was wrong sorry about that. I just took his word. Now I am curious what he was talking about?? Also I had no idea the front sight had been modified. The red plastic piece looks like its factory. I wonder what else has been done to my model 41? Either way it has an awesome trigger pull and the weight of the gun seems to balance it out in my hand very nice. I can't wait to shoot it on Tuesday morning.

 

[shawn mccarver]

A good friend of mine told me they made a model 41S in stainless. I just looked and I was unable to find one anywhere???? I guess I was wrong sorry about that. I just took his word. Now I am curious what he was talking about?? Also I had no idea the front sight had been modified. The red plastic piece looks like its factory. I wonder what else has been done to my model 41? Either way it has an awesome trigger pull and the weight of the gun seems to balance it out in my hand very nice. I can't wait to shoot it on Tuesday morning.

The 41 has never been offered commercially in stainless.

 

[Gunhacker]

All really great points. What years were the early M41's made with all the features you were talking about?? Either way I am very happy to own my M41 after talking to everyone here. I guess I will really find out how much I like it when I shoot it either next tuesday or next thursday at pistol league. Its kind of cool how a M41 22 can weigh so much especially after having shot a model 422 for the last year and a half which weighs almost nothing in comparison

Also just a tip... sometimes finding what a M41 likes to shoot can be problematic... the standard velocity CCI .22 LR is what they were intended to shoot. I have 2 M41's, one likes the CCI, the other likes Winchester. So don't be discouraged if your first range outing doesn't produce the accuracy results you may have been expecting.

I like to have my guns customized to my liking, so whether or not it came that way from the factory, as long as it was done well and you like it is all that matters.

After seeing another forum member do it to his M41 5.5" heavy barrel, I sent my barrel back to Eric Kovachic (www.ewkarms.com) and had him machine in a vent rib, it reduced the weight a bit, but I did it because of the way it sets it apart from other M41's... it turns heads at the range from other M41 shooters. The grips on it are Herrett "Trainer" that duplicates the feel of a Colt 1911.

 

[Number1gun]

Can not see it well enough in the pics. Electroless nickel was somewhat in vogue for a while...? But as far as I can remember no 41's were delivered from the factory in anything but Blue. You could check with Smith.

 

[44wheelman]

Flash hard chrome can be aplied in thicknesses of .00004" to .0001". So. unless the surface of the part being plated is polished,the chrome will not have a polish to it.

Typical decorative chrome plating is applied in thicknesses of .005" to .010" over a nickel plating for that bright shiney look.

Armaloy is a specific brand name of hard chrome with franchise licencees operating under it's name. (So it's like calling a facial tissue a Kleenex, or soda a Coke)

 

[02-fatboy]

Thank you everyone for your input here. I really appreciate it. This is a great place to come and ask questions and learn. I am glad I put my posts up here.