Sure, you can go back. But should you?

[18DAI]

With all the talk on the board recently about compact 45's in general and 4516's in particular, I've pulled my 4516-3 out of storage. I've shot it a bit over the last several weeks and have found myself wondering why I stopped qualifying with it and parked it.

I know it was the ease of carry combined with my old back injuries that caused me to switch to the 4513TSW's for alternate duty gun as well as off duty gun. But as I've rediscovered, the 4516-3 ain't that heavy. Definitely lighter than the 4566 I've been carrying around for the last few years.

BUT - a few years ago I transitioned to the decock only guns for use at work. When you decock my 4566 and 4513TSW the decock paddles spring up to the ready to fire position. There is some cheesy laser etched CYA lawyer message on the right side of their slides stating same.

As I mentioned in anoter thread recently, when I was trained to use the standard decocker/safety we flicked it up/off on the draw. Later we were instructed to only use it as a decocker and carry the guns in retention holster with the safety off. My thumb still swept upwards on the draw anyways.

But a few years of decock only guns has caused me to.....forget....lose the muscle memory.

So, I'm contemplating requalifying next week with the 4516. I'm scheduled in the Monday class. I'm going to see if I can transition to using a standard decocker/safety gun again, using it as a decocker only.

Something member Dpris told me some time ago sticks in my head. He was qualifying with his 4516 when he inadvertantly put the safety on. IIRC he said he switched guns after that. He also said if the decock only option had been around, he would probably still be carrying his 4516.

I picked up a LNIB 4516-2 yesterday. I'm thinking about finding a smith to switch it to a decock only set up. I'll decide next week after I participate in this years annual "no officer left behind".

Anyone else here switched back to a decock safety system after using something else? Hows that working out for you? Regards 18DAI

 

[oldandslow]

18dai, 8/23/13

You have TWO 4516's? I'm jealous.

My daily IWB carry is a Sig p245 which is a decock and no- safety pistol. I do carry a SW 6904 when opting for a lighter and slimmer pistol or a 4516-1 in a waist pack for informal occasions. Since I always carry the SW 3rd gen's with the hammer down and safety off they have the same manual of arms as the Sig- point and pull trigger. I did have one class where I was using a SW 4566tsw and somehow inadvertently flipped the safety on and messed up a final exam test when the pistol did not point and shoot. The second or two it took to notice the safety was on was bad but could have been much worse in a real situation. I'd convert my 3rd gen's to decock only if I could find an easy and resonably priced way to do it.

best wishes- oldandslow

 

[Ethang]

Going to a de-cocker only would be an option, however I think this brings up a valid training point for using the safety all the time. If you train to always flick it off upon the presentation, then an accidental activation would not be such an issue.

With the slide mounted safety, using the slingshot or overhand method to clear a malfunction or chamber a round can cause that activation.

Another reason that putting time behind your chosen carry piece is so important, and not to switch up systems.

 

[Dot_mdb]

Prefer the safety

I carry a 457S on most days. I carry with the safety off. In the past I would occasionally find that the safety was engaged. I finally trained myself to always look at the safety every time the the gun went in or out of a holster, which in my case is every day because the gun moves from a carry holster to a different overnight holster and then back again in the morning. In addition I will sometimes run my thumb across the back of the hammer and feel its position through the shirt. It is easy to feel if the safety is on because the hammer is backed away from the slide. I prefer having the safety even though I don't use it when carrying. In fact, except for my 4046 I wouldn't buy a 3rd Gen without the safety.

Bill

 

[18DAI]

Thanks for the replies fellas! Much appreciated.

I've been reading a book by Don Mann that I was given some months ago. In it, he states that "...X amount of repetitions creates muscle memory..." So guess what I'll be doing all weekend.

I may still send the new 4516-2 off for Novak night sights, trigger job and decock only modification, but will try some old fashioned training and practice first. I'll see how quals with the old 4516-3 go on Monday as well, before deciding. Thanks again! Regards 18DAI

 

[Poohgyrr]

Let us know how it goes! I still prefer to use that lever as a safety/ decock, and actually wish my traditional Sig had a manual safety.

 

[Ethang]

All of you guys that don't like the safety, how are you deactivating it? Are you using the bottom of your thumb or the top? I use a thumb foreward grip on every weapon platform I use, so running my thumb along the safety to deactivate it is a natural motion.

 

[Badkarma 1]

Yeah I did! I transitioned from a SIG P226 to a Smith 645, then too a 5906. And while I prefer the DAO Smiths these days, I still find that if I'm carrying either of the above (or the exquisite 3913) that I load, make ready and flip the safety off after its holstered. Also given my thumb position, it usually flips the decocker/safety off on the way to the target.
Just practice the draw and flipping the safety off, your muscles will remember and you'll do fine! Dale

 

[18DAI]

Hi fellas. Well, other than shooting a mediocre score, for me, 96 day, the use of the safety decocker on the 4516-3 didn't present any problems for me. I did have two instances where I had to re-check that I'd swept it off after reholstering it between strings, but that was only on the first two strings. Probably nerves.

After that, I simply reloaded, made ready, swept the decocker down and back up and holstered. No issues during qual or the malfuncion drills (induced for training purposes) later on.

I was also qualifying with my decock only 4513TSW V1 during the same session. I did have a couple of instances where my thumb went to sweep up a decocker that was already up. Shot the same score with it too. 96 day.

Night quals will be in October. So I've plenty of time to continue re-building muscle memory. Thanks again! Regards 18DAI

 

[SW CQB 45]

When I carried my CQB on duty....I did not care for the decock only setup.

I wanted to be in control of my weapon....meaning being able to turn it off and on.

I switch the spring loaded decocker to an old Ed Brown manual decocker with trimmed paddles.

I carried in a 070 in the decock position and trained to flick the manual decocker lever up during the draw (no lost time)

God forbid I got knocked out or someone was able to wrestle my gun from me.....always having it in the decock position unless in my hand and coming up on target....might buy me some time for them to figure it out.

This was my thought process and not for everybody unless willing to put the training time in. When I would shoot a Glock....I would always feel my thumb trying to sweep the decocker up.

 

[growr]

It all comes back to Thou Shalt Know Thy Equipment.....regardless of how your gear is set up.

Randy

 

[raidersrule]

It all comes back to Thou Shalt Know Thy Equipment.....regardless of how your gear is set up.

Randy

This.

My Smiths are the only pistols that I own which have a manual safety/decocker.

All the rest are Glocks (aside from the department provided 229R DAK).

I've always just chambered a round, decocked and swept the safety back-up and left it as is. At the range, when I'm done firing I sweep he safety down to lower the hammer and then it goes right back-up.

Hope you're happy to shoot the ole' 4516 well (and I feel your pain on the 96, I shot a 97 on last qual and fist time I haven't had a P in a long, long time).

 

[Dot_mdb]

I think it is important to stick with one system. Prior to owning 3rd Gens I owned a Ruger P95 with the de-cock only lever. Practice with that gun which was usually 90% double action caused me to continually use the de-cock lever which of course returned automatically to the fire position. Because the lever on the Ruger and on the S&W are in the same position I find that the old habits with the Ruger are hard to break and sometimes during practice I forget to flip up the lever on my 3rd Gen.

I would be very hesitant to carry two similar guns with different mechanisms. Everyone's brain works a little differently but with the way mine works, it would be asking for trouble.

Bill

 

[e4dan]

I carry a 915, chambered, safety OFF. I like to load, press-check, and holster the pistol on SAFE. I swipe it off AFTER it is holstered. Every time.

It's like Dr. Charles Emerson Winchester, ,4077th MASH used to say about being a surgeon (on the old TV series):
I do one thing.
I do it all the time.
I do it very well.

Every time.

Dan