SW1911 trigger not breaking

[ANGST]

I have a SW1911PD it came with the sloppy trigger. I sent it back to S&W and it was returned with the trigger fixed. Looks like they used the same trigger as they do on the "match" guns as it was black instead of silver . Anyways the gun shot fine for about 200 rounds, now I am having an issue where , usually on the first round of a magazine I pull the trigger and I get nothing, like the grip safety has not engaged.


To me it seems as if I am the problem, since it only happens on the range with the first round. I can dry fire it all day without issue. I am thinking it's like something is wrong with my grip ,that is, the way I am gripping. HOWEVER I have never had this issue with my USGI 1911A1 , and I have way more round through it then the S&W.

Could the gun still be the issue ? Suggestions ?

 

[ANGST]

I have a SW1911PD it came with the sloppy trigger. I sent it back to S&W and it was returned with the trigger fixed. Looks like they used the same trigger as they do on the "match" guns as it was black instead of silver . Anyways the gun shot fine for about 200 rounds, now I am having an issue where , usually on the first round of a magazine I pull the trigger and I get nothing, like the grip safety has not engaged.


To me it seems as if I am the problem, since it only happens on the range with the first round. I can dry fire it all day without issue. I am thinking it's like something is wrong with my grip ,that is, the way I am gripping. HOWEVER I have never had this issue with my USGI 1911A1 , and I have way more round through it then the S&W.

Could the gun still be the issue ? Suggestions ?

 

[Vanman]

My thought is that you are not FULLY depressing the GRIP safety. My S&W1911 seems to be sensitive in this area also.

 

[OFT]

Check your trigger stop screw and see if it's screwed in too far.

 

[Spotteddog]

OFT,
What type of system (if any?) does S&W use on them for it's firing pin block safety? Does it actuate off of the trigger, or the grip safety?

 

[tlen]

What exactly do you do to get the "first round" to fire ?

 

[Joni_Lynn]

I don't see what it can be aside from the trigger overtravel screw or the grip safety.
If you back the overtravel screw out 1/4 turn at a time just remember how many times you've moved it.

 

[LuddhaBuddha]

Originally posted by Spotteddog:
OFT,
What type of system (if any?) does S&W use on them for it's firing pin block safety? Does it actuate off of the trigger, or the grip safety?

It works off of the grip safety.

 

[Guest]

Question: How are you loading the first round into the chamber???

1. Do you lock the Slide to the rear, drop a cartridge into the Chamber and then left the Slide run forward using the Slide Release?

2. Do you lock the Slide to the rear, drop a cartridge into the Chamber and then pull the Slide Smartly to the rear and let it run Forward?

3. Do you lock the Slide to the rear, insert a loaded magazine and then left the Slide run forward using the Slide Release?

4. Do you lock the Slide to the rear, insert a loaded magazine and then pull the Slide Smartly to the rear and let it run Forward?

4a. Do you do any of the above and let the Slide ride forward while holding onto the Slide?

5. With the Slide locked into Battery do you insert a fully loaded magazine and then pull the Slide Smartly to the rear and let it run Forward?

6. Do you do #5 with something less than a full magazine?

6a. Do you do either #5 or #6 and let the Slide ride forward while holding onto the Slide?

Frankly, the only truly proper method(s) are either #5 or #6.

If you're using one of the other methods I'd suggest you start using either #5 or #6 and try things again.

If that doesn't work I suggest the following:

Get yourself a piece of the "Magical Mystery Duct Tape" and use it to disable the Grip Safety and see if this changes any. This will Rule out any issues with the Grip Safety neing the problem.

Report back.

 

[ANGST]

Originally posted by tlen:
What exactly do you do to get the "first round" to fire ?

Pull really hard and shoot high, or release pressure and pull trigger again.

 

[ANGST]

Originally posted by KKG:
Question: How are you loading the first round into the chamber???

1. Do you lock the Slide to the rear, drop a cartridge into the Chamber and then left the Slide run forward using the Slide Release?

2. Do you lock the Slide to the rear, drop a cartridge into the Chamber and then pull the Slide Smartly to the rear and let it run Forward?

3. Do you lock the Slide to the rear, insert a loaded magazine and then left the Slide run forward using the Slide Release?

4. Do you lock the Slide to the rear, insert a loaded magazine and then pull the Slide Smartly to the rear and let it run Forward?

4a. Do you do any of the above and let the Slide ride forward while holding onto the Slide?

5. With the Slide locked into Battery do you insert a fully loaded magazine and then pull the Slide Smartly to the rear and let it run Forward?

6. Do you do #5 with something less than a full magazine?

6a. Do you do either #5 or #6 and let the Slide ride forward while holding onto the Slide?

Frankly, the only truly proper method(s) are either #5 or #6.

If you're using one of the other methods I'd suggest you start using either #5 or #6 and try things again.

If that doesn't work I suggest the following:

Get yourself a piece of the "Magical Mystery Duct Tape" and use it to disable the Grip Safety and see if this changes any. This will Rule out any issues with the Grip Safety being the problem.

Report back.

5 , shoot to slide lock, then 4 , not riding the slide.

 

[Guest]

Originally posted by ANGST: 5 , shoot to slide lock, then 4 , not riding the slide.

That's Right.

One more question: Are you holding the hammer back with your Thumb when you're letting the Slide run forward? Part of the basic design suggests that you should hold the Hammer back and Pull the Trigger which makes sure the Sear is disengaged. It's kind of tough to do but with practice can be done. Once the Slide is forward release the Trigger and then slowly lower the Hammer and using the other hand push the Thumb Safety up into place. You shouldn't have to do this very often because you shouldn't 'shoot the gun dry' and inserting a fresh magazine can be done without becoming dangerous. Loading and Unloading are the times when more accidents happen than at any other time during handling. That's why the only Safety Rule that must ALWAYS be remembered and practices is "Never point a gun at most thing you don't want to shoot!"

I'd try the Duct Tape and see if that changes anything. Next, would be a trip to a good Pistolsmith of one back to Smith & Wesson after a phone call to the Service Department.

 

[shawn mccarver]

Originally posted by Joni_Lynn:
I don't see hwhat it can be aside from the trigger overtravel screw or the grip safety.
If you bck the overtravel screw out 1/4 turn at a time just remember how many times you've moved it.

Originally, S&W trigger stop screws on the 1911 series were installed from the back to keep owners from "improving" on the factory setting. I am not sure if this is still the case, but if it is, the owner will not be able to adjust it without a detail strip. And a tube of appropriate loctite. I prefer the send it back "on S&Ws dime" approach.

 

[shawn mccarver]

Originally posted by KKG:

Originally posted by ANGST: 5 , shoot to slide lock, then 4 , not riding the slide.

That's Right.

One more question: Are you holding the hammer back with your Thumb when you're letting the Slide run forward? Part of the basic design suggests that you should hold the Hammer back and Pull the Trigger which makes sure the Sear is disengaged. It's kind of tough to do but with practice can be done. Once the Slide is forward release the Trigger and then slowly lower the Hammer and using the other hand push the Thumb Safety up into place. You shouldn't have to do this very often because you shouldn't 'shoot the gun dry' and inserting a fresh magazine can be done without becoming dangerous.

Huh?

I have read this two or three times, and still do not get it. Surely you are not telling this fellow to try to hold the hammer back while the slide is running forward at full speed? And surely you are not telling this fellow to intentionally pull the trigger when letting the slide run forward (an old gunsmith's trick to compensate for a crappy trigger job by engaging the disconnector and thereby deactivating the sear - in theory). I suspect S&W and any other manufacturer would not appreciate this advice, as it has negligent discharge and thumb injury written all over it.

 

[shawn mccarver]

Originally posted by ANGST:
I have a SW1911PD it came with the sloppy trigger. I sent it back to S&W and it was returned with the trigger fixed. Looks like they used the same trigger as they do on the "match" guns as it was black instead of silver . Anyways the gun shot fine for about 200 rounds, now I am having an issue where , usually on the first round of a magazine I pull the trigger and I get nothing, like the grip safety has not engaged.


To me it seems as if I am the problem, since it only happens on the range with the first round. I can dry fire it all day without issue. I am thinking it's like something is wrong with my grip ,that is, the way I am gripping. HOWEVER I have never had this issue with my USGI 1911A1 , and I have way more round through it then the S&W.

Could the gun still be the issue ? Suggestions ?

This sounds very similar to the problems S&W had fitting grip safeties with the first run of 1911s. I say send it back to S&W and tell them what is happening. You should not have to "hold the hammer back" when releasing the slide or pull the trigger when letting the slide run forward, or any of this other nonsense.

 

[ANGST]

Originally posted by shawn mccarver:

Originally posted by Joni_Lynn:
I don't see hwhat it can be aside from the trigger overtravel screw or the grip safety.
If you bck the overtravel screw out 1/4 turn at a time just remember how many times you've moved it.

Originally, S&W trigger stop screws on the 1911 series were installed from the back to keep owners from "improving" on the factory setting. I am not sure if this is still the case, but if it is, the owner will not be able to adjust it without a detail strip. And a tube of appropriate loctite. I prefer the send it back "on S&Ws dime" approach.

This is the problem. I finally figured it out.

When a full magazine is inserted it "swells" slightly . I belive it was contacting the trigger bar , making it slight bowed out , thus not being able to go back far enough to trip the sear.

The key was troubleshooting it using a full magazine. With a full mag in the gun I could see that it hit the over travel before the trigger was fully back. In order to drop the hammer the trigger had to be pivoted slightly up. So in order to replicate the problem it needed a fall mag and the trigger pulled straight back.

I had already requested a shipping label from S&W so I sent the gun back for them to adjust.

 

[Joni_Lynn]

I'm glad you've figured it out.

While you would think there is an exact size for triggers, the length of the bow can vary a bit from one make to another.

I've noticed before that some magazines are a bit thinner and perhaps might allow some flex as compared to others. I guess this is sort of an answer.

 

[PaulCG]

Had the same problem today with my brand new SW1911. One factory mag worked fine. While using the other mag every so often I could not pull the trigger, as if the grip safety was engaged. Never loaded more than five rounds at a time. Both SW factory mags look like cheap junk. Put the pistol down, went to the counter and bought two Wilson (expensive but nice) mags. Shot another 25 rounds with each new mag without a hitch. Go figure.
On the plus side, the 1911 is very accurate, but needs a trigger job big time. I guess I'm just spoiled by my Model 41 and High Standard. (and P220 to some extent.)

 

[shovelwrench]

Sounds like the overtravel screw is out too far.

 

[shawn mccarver]

Originally posted by Joni_Lynn:
I don't see what it can be aside from the trigger overtravel screw or the grip safety.
If you back the overtravel screw out 1/4 turn at a time just remember how many times you've moved it.

I agree - it is either a too close to tolerance grip safety or a too close to tolerance trigger stop overtravel screw.

The last time I looked, however, the S&W screw was adjusted from the back so as not to be available to external adjustment for the customer.

Have they changed this? When I had a problem on my first SW1911, and tried to loosen or remove the screw, I could not and called the factory and was told the screw was installed from the back of the trigger for the reason stated above. Sure enough.

I have not looked recently to see if that has changed. Anyone know?