SW9VE trouble

[SWShootinDave]

Howdy S&W Fans,

My SW9VE recently started decocking the striker when slide returns to battery, mostly when releasing the slide without chambering a round, but it has also occurred while firing. Is this a disconnector problem? The problem doesn't happen much when chambering a round from slide lock; then it's actually pretty rare. So slowing the slide by chambering a round enables the striker to remain cocked.

Changes from stock: I have removed the 'pigtail' spring and outer sear spring, and lessened the striker spring weight. The trigger is now what I would call good DA.

So, if I slow the slide and allow it to close easier, the striker remains cocked. If slide closes sharply--by releasing slide or while firing--the striker is kicked out of cocked-ness.

Function has been perfect up until this started. I'd like to get the pistol back to 100%.

Thanks for any input,
David

 

[MRSpivey]

Do you still have the stock slide spring/guide rod?

 

[Steve912]

Changes from stock: I have removed the 'pigtail' spring and outer sear spring, and lessened the striker spring weight. The trigger is now what I would call good DA.
I'd like to get the pistol back to 100%.

Revert to stock. Those springs act on sear re-set.

 

[SWShootinDave]

Yes the recoil spring/rod are stock.

 

[SWShootinDave]

Re.: Revert to stock. Those springs act on sear re-set.

So the lighter aftermarket sear springs like Apex's and Galloway's can cause this problem? I've read reviews of the lighter sear springs working fine in these pistols. I also read on S&W Forum that removing the outer sear spring was a simple trigger-lightening fix that worked without causing failures. But if you have experience of this causing failures, I'll reinstall the outer spring.

 

[Borderboss]

Re.: Revert to stock. Those springs act on sear re-set.

So the lighter aftermarket sear springs like Apex's and Galloway's can cause this problem? I've read reviews of the lighter sear springs working fine in these pistols. I also read on S&W Forum that removing the outer sear spring was a simple trigger-lightening fix that worked without causing failures. But if you have experience of this causing failures, I'll reinstall the outer spring.

It doesn't sound like you used one of those kits, but just removed some springs. Did you use a kit?

I've got an Apex kit and have shot a ton of rounds with no problems.

 

[sgtsandman]

If you didn't use a kit made for your pistol, that might be why you are having an issue. I also would not recommend removing springs without a replacement. They are there for a reason.

 

[SWShootinDave]

It doesn't sound like you used one of those kits, but just removed some springs. Did you use a kit?

I've got an Apex kit and have shot a ton of rounds with no problems.

I didn't use a kit. I just removed the original outer sear spring and 'pigtail' spring. And I slightly shortened the stock striker spring, but primer ignition has never been a problem.

I also have a SW9F that I did the same changes to and it has never malfunctioned. I did notice that the disconnector on the SW9F rides a little higher than on the SW9VE, or maybe that's a difference in the grip-frame specs.

 

[SWShootinDave]

If you didn't use a kit made for your pistol, that might be why you are having an issue. I also would not recommend removing springs without a replacement. They are there for a reason.

Quote from Bill "shortround" on this forum re. SW9VE: "If you want a lighter trigger, you can remove the outer sear reset spring. [snip]...have more than 5000 rounds through it since then with no failures. You can replace the striker spring with a lighter one, but I kept the original weight because I shoot a lot of steel case ammo for practice."

 

[SWShootinDave]

I just tried the assembled SW9VE slide on the SW9F frame and although the slide stop doesn't work with the shorter length, everything else does. I released the slide from full-reward position and 'sling-shotted' the slide and the striker remains cocked and works perfectly. So the problem remains with the SW9VE frame assembly; either the disconnector is not in spec or some other issue. Again, both pistols have had the same changes done to them, and the SW9F has worked perfectly for many rounds.

 

[SWShootinDave]

And did the reverse with puzzling result: I put the SW9F slide assembly on the SW9VE frame assembly and released the slide with slide lock and sling-shotted the slide numerous times, and the striker remained cocked and functioned every trigger pull. So it seems the SW9VE sear is working correctly, at least with the SW9F slide assembly, which is the same functionally as the SW9VE. So the SW9VE problem remains, and has become more puzzling.

 

[sgtsandman]

Something is definitely different between the two. Might be time for a gunsmith to take a look at it and advise.

 

[OKFC05]

Congratts: you have worked so close to the tolerances that the hook on the striker is getting past the sear just barely before the sear gets high enough to catch it. It is NOT decocking on closing, it is NEVER COCKED unless it catches the sear. This is a well known failure mode at S&W, and the cure is more sear spring, which is why the second sear spring (that you removed) was added by S&W in the first place. They found that very hot ammo would cycle faster than the sear could rise, resulting in a single-shot.
Simple fix, put back the sear spring.

 

[RGVshooter]

Changes from stock: I have removed the 'pigtail' spring and outer sear spring, and lessened the striker spring weight.

I think we found what the problem is........ :

 

[SWShootinDave]

Congratts: you have worked so close to the tolerances that the hook on the striker is getting past the sear just barely before the sear gets high enough to catch it. It is NOT decocking on closing, it is NEVER COCKED unless it catches the sear. This is a well known failure mode at S&W, and the cure is more sear spring, which is why the second sear spring (that you removed) was added by S&W in the first place. They found that very hot ammo would cycle faster than the sear could rise, resulting in a single-shot.
Simple fix, put back the sear spring.

Thanks, that's something to consider. I just tried the SW9VE with cocked striker and released the slide from slide lock, and the result is a decocked striker at lockup. I then tried the same with the SW9F and the striker does not decock, from releasing the slide or from sling-shotting, at lockup.

So the SW9VE's striker is decocking after the slide reaches lockup from free slide release. However, if I slow the slide when released from slide lock, the striker remains cocked. The problem is the striker is kicked out of being cocked when the slide reaches battery. And if I chamber a round from magazine by releasing the slide from slide stop, it will again prevent the striker from decocking. But it's not 100% because the striker decocking occurred while firing.

So what you said could translate into the cocked striker slipping off the sear because of the force of free slide lockup. I'll try a sear spring from Galloway; they have been used successfully by many Sigma owners.

 

[SWShootinDave]

I think we found what the problem is........ :

Quote by shortround: "If you want a lighter trigger, you can remove the outer sear reset spring. [snip]...have more than 5000 rounds through it since then with no failures. You can replace the striker spring with a lighter one, but I kept the original weight because I shoot a lot of steel case ammo for practice."

And many other Sigma owners have removed the 'pigtail' spring and outer sear spring with no occurrence of malfunctions. But it seems that the tolerances of my SW9VE are just at the point of allowing the cocked striker to slip off of the sear from unhindered slide lockup.

 

[RGVshooter]

Quote by shortround: "If you want a lighter trigger, you can remove the outer sear reset spring. [snip]...have more than 5000 rounds through it since then with no failures. You can replace the striker spring with a lighter one, but I kept the original weight because I shoot a lot of steel case ammo for practice."

And many other Sigma owners have removed the 'pigtail' spring and outer sear spring with no occurrence of malfunctions. But it seems that the tolerances of my SW9VE are just at the point of allowing the cocked striker to slip off of the sear from unhindered slide lockup.

Did it shoot fine before any unauthorized modifications were made? And now after the "modifications" it doesn't? Yeah, lol. Like I said. I think we found what the problem is....

I'm outta here...

 

[staylor]

I had the pigtail spring removed and the outer sear spring replaced with a lighter spring on my SW9VE. Haven't had any problems like you have. It does sound like a spec issue with your 9VE sear. Good luck finding a solution.

 

[MRSpivey]

I purchased a complete spring kit (4 springs) for mine and haven't experienced a single issue. I preferred doing that in case I had the need for warranty repair/replacement. I can always take it back to factory to test and/or send to S&W.

 

[SWShootinDave]

Did it shoot fine before any unauthorized modifications were made? And now after the "modifications" it doesn't? Yeah, lol. Like I said. I think we found what the problem is....

I'm outta here...

The SW9VE has been 100% for many rounds after the changes were made, until just recently, when apparently the sear/striker interface developed a slippage problem. My SW9F has never failed with the same changes for many more rounds.

Yep, these machines occasionally develop malfunctions from use. Then it's fun and rewarding to fix them. And nowadays, making a liability-lawyer-constrained product better is also rewarding.