Talk about Lightning Striking Twice

[Dave T]

Every time I read one of these posts I am more convinced than ever I don't want to buy a new/current S&W. Sorry to those who find this offensive but I like the pre-Bangor/Punta guns best. Yea, I have a couple from later years as it's the only way to get an L-frame, which I admire and appreciate, but even those are pre-Lock. YMMV!

Dave

 

[Cruiser RN]

This time Sellier and Belloit 158 grain FMJ 38 special ammo.The first was Winchester 158 grain FMJ 38 Special Ammo if memory serves me right.I will call S+W tommorrow after work and see what they say.I am hesitant to accept another 640 dreding the thought that there may be a third time.I will try to get pics of inside of the barrel.I took some but they were too blurry.I will keep everyone informed of what S+W says and does.

 

[ColColt]

Well, IMHO, it fails logic to understand why you jump to the assumption that the OP is a deceitful liar, based off nothing but a desire to defend S&W, apparently. No picture of his hand was posted for you to have basis to say that his description was not accurate.

If the front half of my gun flew downrange and my hand was burned, I very well might refer to that as "blown up".

+1... S&W makes mistakes like other manufacturers, pure and simple. No one needs the 3rd degree about it.

 

[CALREB]

Cruiser, 35+ yrs LE, 30 of which firearms inst/armorer/pretty serious competitor/ have done nothing for about 30 years but teach/fix / shoot handguns. Your gun BLEW UP.number of pieces or where, doesnt matter. This stuff happens to all makes, models, types, ammo problems ,design problems, maintenance problems or combinations of all. I save the fancy words for court. I would be curious how this occurred to possibly save someone else from the same problem. So very glad you were not hurt seriously. Good luck Bob
I have seen several times, the small "clip" that is installed to prevent flame cutting on the topstrap, come loose and become lodged into the forcing cone by a fired bullet. None of the guns came apart, and you couldnt get them apart easily either. Thet were all various scandium models, maybe why they didnt come apart, and this was several years ago.

 

[amazingflapjack]

Thank you Sir, for bringing your report here to the forum, and for your patience in doing so. Flapjack.

 

[Edmo]

While there is no question that the barrel shank fractured at the first thread, to characterize this as "Blew up" is exaggeration at best. So far as burns to your hands as a result, there is no reason for this happening any more with this event than when normally shooting any revolver. Again, somewhat of an exaggeration. Why?

There are several other things that cause curiosity. You say you received the gun and just put it away for several years? Where/when/why in that period of time did you polish the gun and paint the front sight of a gun you seem to have had little interest in?

Is there a particular reason you removed the stocks before taking the pictures? It fails logic to understand why this would have been done.

Call it what you want, but the gun blew up!!! Period, dot...

Where/when/why did you get so accusatory?


To the OP: Sorry about your revolver and your troubles. Let us know how S&W makes it right.

Edmo

 

[Jeb21]

I am sorry that this happened to the op, twice is stunning. I am glad that the injuries were not worse.

Before we condem all of the news models I just want to chime in with the fact that I have owned a new model 64 for seven years now and have put several thousand rounds through it practice and competition with no issues. Also I have a new model 66 with 500 rounds though it, no issues. Smith still makes excellent revolvers

 

[RobsTV]

This time Sellier and Belloit 158 grain FMJ 38 special ammo.The first was Winchester 158 grain FMJ 38 Special Ammo if memory serves me right.I will call S+W tommorrow after work and see what they say.I am hesitant to accept another 640 dreding the thought that there may be a third time.I will try to get pics of inside of the barrel.I took some but they were too blurry.I will keep everyone informed of what S+W says and does.

That really blows

I would actually feel very safe and confident if they sent another 640. I think you pushed the odds enough that a replacement will not be a third failure, and I would expect S&W to make absolutely positive that any replacement is gone over before shipping. You will probably get the best 640 ever made.

 

[CWH44300]

This is not my line but I'm using it here "wow, and I mean that in as many ways possible "
Please keep us posted

 

[Cruiser RN]

My Guardian Angel has been working quad overtive this past week.Last Thursday when getting home from work a guy ran across the street against the light.I slammed on my brakes to stop from hitting him and I was rear ended by a Mercedes SUV with 3k of damage to my car.The gentleman who fixed it and 2 insurance adjusters said'With this much damage are you sure you aren't hurt?"I get my car back yesterday,teach the Monthly Pistol Safety Class,and then this happens.God is Great.I think the return is going to blow the mind of S+W because this was the replacement for the first Model 640 and its history is very well documented.LOL

That really blows

I would actually feel very safe and confident if they sent another 640. I think you pushed the odds enough that a replacement will not be a third failure, and I would expect S&W to make absolutely positive that any replacement is gone over before shipping. You will probably get the best 640 ever made.

 

[kenjen]

how long did you own the first one and how many rounds went through it before it ''blew up"? just wondering if both gun came from the same ''lot'', are the serial #s close to each other? to have that happen to two guns by the same person is like 1 in 1 millon odds, i can see your distrusting s&w. but please don't go and buy a taurus.

 

[panamajack310]

I have to back Cruiser RN on this. I have also had a gun blow up in my hand and walked away with no injuries. I had a Glock 21 blow up in my hand years ago. Turnes out the plastic fantastic mixture was off causing the frame to be weak and crack. Now as far as the barrel breaking at the threads and coming off. THis could have happened due to oovertorquing of the barrel at the factory and the stress of firing and over torquing just did the barrel in. I have seen several little J frames posted on here that had the same problem.

 

[ladder13]

I'm glad you weren't seriously injured Mike.

 

[scooter123]

That is unfortunate and I can understand your being upset. However from an Engineering perspective you have actually experienced 2 distinctly different modes of failure.

In the first case it was the typical cracked frame that is so common to the J frames. This type of failure is so common that IMO S&W should either go back to pinning the barrels on the J frames, start using locktite to mount the barrels, or redesign the frame to allow just a bit more "meat" under the barrel in the cut for the yoke. Basically it's a designed in weak point and using a "crush" fit to keep the barrel in place has resulted in a failure rate that I find unacceptable.

In the second case it was a failure of the barrel at the stress riser that is created by machining the mounting stub for threading it into the frame. This type of failure is actually pretty rare, rare enough that I would consider your failure to be due simply to bad luck. Basically you had the bad luck to have an inclusion in the raw steel bar that your barrel was made from that ended up in an area that created a stress riser. In this case you did "get hit by lightning" because in the past 4 years or so I have only seen 3 posts about this type of failure. BTW, one was a 686 and the other was a Ruger.

Unfortunately, Stuff Happens. This time it happened to you and it was simply bad luck. Personally, I'm NOT a fan of the J frame, IMO there have been so many postings about frames cracking that I've concluded they will all crack in time. In your position I'd use 2 consecutive failures of one model as a bit of leverage to get something like a 3 inch 686.

BTW, I also wouldn't mention that "burn" you experienced. Sorry, but IMO if it doesn't raise a blister it isn't a burn, it's just a close call. Most likely that happened due to an instant of flashback when the barrel first seperated from the frame and it's really not an injury worth mentioning. However, it is a notable event that clearly demonstrates the need for using safety glasses because something that causes only a 1/2 hour of irritation to the hand can cause a serious injury to the eye.

 

[iflyem1]

Im glad your OK. I wonder the chances of getting two guns with these types of anomolies. Keep us posted on what S&W does and how they handle this.

 

[Gasman1972]

Hey Cruiser, can you get a up close clear picture of whats left of the barrel, inside the frame (looking back towards the firing pin) and looking into the barrel so we can see both broken edges?

Again I ask this.

 

[DonD]

It was the gun not the ammo.Standard factory fresh 38 Special Ammo,not a hot load,38 +P or 357 Magnum.Even if it were a "HOT" 38 Special round,which it was not,that was the exact reason why I bought a 357 magnum so you would have protection from a hot round if it came up.

Bad ammo could override the safety margin that exists when you fire a .38 Special in a gun made for .357s. 15gr of Bullseye where a slow burning powder should have been will most likely grenade your gun.

Not common with factory ammo but faulty ammo does come out. Don

 

[Cruiser RN]

In my practice I know that "stuff happens".For it to happen twice with the same model gun to the same person and it to happen with the replacement gun the factory sent is @ the level of probability of being struck by lightning.I mentioned the fact that I had first degree skin burns not to "SUE S+W" but to say "aren't I lucky I didn't lose fingers" and "Glad I use good shooting glasses and I can still see".It saddens me that there are posters who may have legitimate questions that I am happy to answer who instead of asking them basically commit character assassination against a person they don't know.After I first read ALK8944's post my initial reaction reaction was to say"Delete S+W Forum,stop any further financial support,and stay where I have been."It has been the supportive responses of the subsequent posters that had me reconsider this reaction and for this I thank you.....Mike

 

[panamajack310]

Mike, Most of us who have been on here for several years and know you. Are well aware that when you post it is not **** and are super knowledgable with S&W hand guns. That is why we hate you so much....HAA HAA. Do not worry about what these new people are saying, us old guys know you are a stand-up guy and trust what you post.
Now seriously, all of us who have been here and know S&W handguns and revolvers know that they are a piece of machinery and are made of a substance that can fail these people that are posting need to realize that S&W has metalurgy and other human factors that can cause failures. This is why we all look for older models to purchase.

 

[Doug M.]

FWIW, when I first saw ALK8944's response I thought there was no excuse for it. After reading more, I am further convinced that it was beyond despicable. He owes you an apology.

Whatever one calls the events described, S&W really messed up. I would be hopping mad and need a week or two to calm down enough to even pretend to have a civil conversation with anyone there. Regardless of the metallurgy, physics, or whatever, it should not have happened.