Talk me out of the M&P 10

[Jaymo]

Yes, the gas piston absolutely makes the Ruger better.
DI is an inferior gas system.
The receiver stays cleaner and cooler with a gas piston system.
A lot cooler and a lot cleaner.
I've never had to clean a gas piston as often as I had to clean my AR's BCG.
Besides, you don't lube a gas piston.
Gas pistons are run dry, or else, you get all the **** that you get in a DI BCG.

Gas piston guns don't have to be "run wet", like a DI system.
To claim otherwise is fooling yourself.
I got rid of my AR after buying my Daewoo, because the Daewoo is a superior rifle to the AR, because of the gas system.

Funny, how shooters slammed the Remington 742 because it needed to be run wet, yet the same fault somehow makes an AR15 great?

No more rifles that have to be kept pharmaceutically clean, for me.
I prefer guns that are reliable under all conditions.

Imagine, if Glocks had to be "run wet" and kept pharmaceutically clean in order to operate.
Nobody would buy them, except for AR fanboys.

 

[Fourth Horseman]

Come on now, ARs don't need to be kept "pharmaceutically clean." That's nonsense. They DO need to be kept lubed, but clean? Not at all. There's tons of experiments people have run where they purposely put dirt in the action and magazines to prove that they run fine. You have to go to extremes with pouring handfuls of dirt right into them before they start having problems. Here's an example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHwoZ6SS_pY&list=UUZ-qxagOkAmCEP-Tu6YliUQ

Certainly, I keep mine clean, but I keep my piston guns clean too. But will ARs run dirty? Yes, they will. Stop spreading nonsense.

 

[Jaymo]

Or, shoot them until they're dirty.
Stop kidding yourself.

TiN coatings and Failzero were created because they gag when they get nasty K1Aand hot.
My L1A1 and 'woo have never gagged. That's something I couldn't honestly say about my 15.
The K2 uses a long stroke gas piston instead of the DI system of the K1A1 BECAUSE the Jammamatic 16 gags when nasty and in extremely cold weather.
The K2 uses the best traits of the AR15 (lower/bolt & carrier style/magwell), AK(long-stroke gas piston), and FAL (adjustable gas regulator).
I had to grudgingly admit that Daewoo really got things right.

I was an AR fanboy. No more.

And, yes, ARs do need to be run wet and/or kept pharmaceutically clean to keep running.
That's why I switched to piston driven (against my own prejudices).

But, if you'd like me to stop spreading the disillusioning truth, I will.
Have a nice evening.

 

[MistWolf]

Heh! I'm gonna have to set my ARs down and explain to them they need to be kept "pharmaceutically clean" to run, because all of mine break the rules, including my M&P-10.

ARs use a piston and regardless of the internet chatter, are not a direct impingement system- unless you're going to call Eugene Stoner, the man who engineered the AR, a liar. He even states in his patent that the gas system is not a conventional direct impingement system and the US Patent Office agreed.

Fail Safe coatings on the carrier are nice but not necessary. The carrier hardly rubs in the upper anyway. If you go study how the carrier fits in the upper, you'll see the clearances are rather generous allowing the carrier to float as it moves back and forth. After thousands of rounds, the carrier of my AR shows little wear despite the fact it only gets wiped down now and then.

How much hotter does an AR receiver get? I shot several hundred rounds through an AR in a single afternoon. The stainless steel barrel turned a golden brown from the heat, the gasblock flashed water into steam, yet when I removed the carrier from the upper, it wasn't even warm enough to warm my hands. It's doom and gloom to barely warm up the carrier but it's ok to expose a smaller diameter piston to even greater heat? That does not compute.

As for the AK, so what if it's a long stroke piston? It's also a good three pounds heavier and still can't deal with the heat an AR carbine can. Compared to a 20 inch HBar that weighs the same as an AK? No contest.

I hope you're not running your L1A1 dry. It's a fine machine and deserves to be properly lubed. I don't run my FALs without lube, but as they are metric, maybe they just need it more. Common wisdom says don't lube the piston when it's in the gas block but it gets frustrating when the carbon build up at the FAL gas block makes removing the gas plug and piston for cleaning a pain. It would be nice to be able to lube that area to keep the fouling soft.

You don't have to take my word for any of this, nor do I care if you do. But, before you go spreading your wisdom about, you should do a little more studying how an AR actually works instead of just repeating what you read on the internet. In fact, I suggest you look up Stoner's original patents, study how the parts of the AR fit to each other and study how the laws of thermodynamics and fluid dynamics affect the gas system's operating pressures and temperatures before believing a word I say. It's rocket science, but it ain't complicated

 

[Fourth Horseman]

Look up "Filthy 14" on Google. 40,000+ rounds and never cleaned. Fires like a champ. So the rest of us are either super lucky and Jaymo is right, or...

 

[red dragon]

I put 400+ rounds(mostly tula) through my mp10 over the course of 3 months with no cleaning and no additional oil with zero malfunctions. My mp15 moe mid has seen 500+ rounds(mostly tula too)between cleanings as well with zero malfunctions. I don't run my rifles wet either, that just makes a mess. Its rather silly to make such a bold statement that piston is superior to gas. I don't care if its gas or piston, gets dirty or stays clean as long as it works. I've seen both platforms fail, so it will be very hard to convince me that either one is vastly superior to other based on my experiences. The whole pharmaceutically clean and running it wet bs is getting old.

 

[Veeper]

Generally, people that claim AR's need to run clean don't, or haven't, run AR's; and if they have they've run them dry as a desert and then blamed any malfunction on the design.

Oh well! Haters gonna hate.

 

[Scrateshooter]

Have you ever shot at a 1000yds before? I own a mp10 and would consider it a mid range rifle, 300-600yds. With practice and the right ammo you might be able to stretch that out to 800, a 1000yds is pushing it. If you want a long range precision rifle id look into a bolt gun in 300 or 338. I think having such high expectations of any semi auto 308 rifle is only going to lead to a let down or spending a ton of money. As far as customization goes your pretty limited when it comes to the mp10. It accepts standard ar furniture for the most part and the flash hider is removable. The factory trigger is outstanding in mine, clean break right at 4.5lbs. I have over 1200rds through it with zero malfunctions. Half of those rounds were tula and wolf. I'm a southpaw so the ambidextrous controls are a huge bonus to me. If your looking for a ar10 that you can swap barrels and internals on the mp10 is not for you. If your looking for a 1000yd 308 semi auto rifle the mp10 is not for you. If you want a accurate, reliable, ambidextrous, lightweight, 308 semi auto rifle and understand its capabilities, the mp10 is a good choice. Don't forget optics, at that distance you'll need a good scope and mount $$$$. Match grade 308 usually runs about $1.50-2.50rd if you don't reload. The thought of 1000yd shooting is thrown around way to often. It is difficult and expensive to achieve. I'm sure there are plenty of people who can shoot 1000yds with a 308, im just saying that it would be very difficult with a semi auto with a 18" barrel. Hope this helps, good luck on your 1000yd quest.

What he said. I've tried it, even bought a Noveske for my AR10. You'll shoot long range cheaper and easier with a factory remington or savage in a HS Precision stock and a Leupold Mk 4; the AR10 (or M1A) will cost double that and not even get close.

Plus, learning to shoot an semi long range is a whole other bag of tricks.

 

[Scrateshooter]

I put 400+ rounds(mostly tula) through my mp10 over the course of 3 months with no cleaning and no additional oil with zero malfunctions. My mp15 moe mid has seen 500+ rounds(mostly tula too)between cleanings as well with zero malfunctions. I don't run my rifles wet either, that just makes a mess. Its rather silly to make such a bold statement that piston is superior to gas. I don't care if its gas or piston, gets dirty or stays clean as long as it works. I've seen both platforms fail, so it will be very hard to convince me that either one is vastly superior to other based on my experiences. The whole pharmaceutically clean and running it wet bs is getting old.

You better oil it unless you want to wear out the gas ring as well as wear the bolt to carrier fit.