Talk to me about Chronographs

[Twoboxer]

. . . I use a full size tripod set up about 7' to 10' out where it can get a view of the sky. Bench rest pistol, check accuracy on target, take notes. Back to shop, load up some more. Load up about (20) rounds of each bullet weight and powder weight, back to range, repeat.

While it may not apply to most folks needs, I was recently able to use my Labradar to chrono all shots taken at targets every 100yds out to 1200yds. That helped initially to make the right calls on that day with that weather at that location and then confirmed or eliminated MV as a factor in missed shots.

Given that all the targets were at different angles at this range/cattle farm, it would have taken two people a fair amount of time to do that with an optical chrono. That just isn't practical with any other than perhaps the initial test shots. And a MagnetoSpeed would have impacted POI and most likely group size.

 

[andyo5]

I have a Pact Model 1 XP. Cost is $130 (through Midway) complete with sensors, skyscreens, and all mounting hardware. It has been reliable and repeatable.
Unlike the Chrony products, the electronic computer unit sits on the bench next to you. Only the sensors, skyscreens, and mounting unit are out in front of you.
It will give you velocity for each individual shot and statistics for shot strings such as average velocity, standard deviation, average deviation, velocity extreme spread, etc. But you can't download to another device so you will have to write it down.

Pact now makes a Professional Model for 100 bucks more. It can print out and download to an SD card or a PC. It also calculates power and trajectory data.

 

[AveragEd]

I had a Pact - for about a day. It flat would not work and when I called the number they strongly recommend you call with problems and told them my range faces west and the light was behind me, they told me to turn the unit so the light was onto the photocells. When I advised the guy that doing so would have the chronograph positioned across the range, he said, "You gotta do what you gotta do." I did - I returned the Pact to MidwayUSA.

I then bought a CED M2. It worked when it felt like it and numerous calls to their office not too far from me finally resulted in my speaking with the head engineer, Charles. Over the course of weeks, Charles sent me a complete new M2, piece by piece, but the results were the same - my old ProChrono would always work but the M2 was intermittant.

I returned that one to CED and bought another ProChrono with the Bluetooth connectivity. It always works!

Ed

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

"Twernt" many players in the cronograph field 25 years ago......When my wife bought me my Oehler 35P.....it came in a gun case holding 3 sky screens/2 ft & 4 ft spacer bars/tripod stands/side & overhead diffusers/roll of paper and the crono with built in printer......It gives 2 velocity readings for each shot..........And has and still works great..........

 

[loc n load]

+1

What Mike said. I have a 35P that I have used for years, have shot it alongside all other chrono's out there with the exception of the Lab radar. Wouldn't part with mine.

 

[Vortec MAX]

I have a CED M2, a Magnetospeed, and an Oehler 35P. I used to have a Shooting Chrony.

The only one I ever find myself using is the Oehler. It just works without a fuss. Hardly ever misses a shot.

Mike

 

[Nemo288]

Went to the indoor range today with the LabRadar, the 696-1, and some 44 special reloads.
Shot for group and velocity at the same time.
LabRadar did not miss a single shot now that I have the proper routine down.
I set the distance to 6" and shoot off bags right beside the radar with almost the entire revolver in front of the radar's front face.
Had shooters on both side of me whacking away with 9's.
They did not trigger the radar once.
I use a laser boresighting module placed on top of the radar to aim it.

The solid copper monolithic bullets appear to have the strongest return signal followed by the copper plated and then the cast numbers including coated.
I did not shoot any jacketed today. I expect them to behave like the solids.
All that is as it should be.

I'll be writing up some of the results in another thread.
It would have been impossible for me to have used any other chrono under the circumstances.

 

[LD-Ordie]

Another positive vote for the Competition Electronics Pro with the Bluetooth DigitalLink. So as others have mentioned, it's real picky about sunlight hitting the sensors. My fix was to cut a piece of cardboard and using some small spring loaded clamps to attach it to the upright wires or the plastic things they attach to. Works great! The blue tooth adapter is way too cool and makes it a snap to document a dozen rounds, then upload it to my computer via a spread sheet. It's a great tool for working up your loads, and having a quick and easy reference for later viewing. It's even Mac Friendly!

 

[Big Cholla]

I handloaded for 35 years and thought I really knew my stuff. Until I got my first Oehler 35. I quickly found that there were nuances in handloading results that I was overlooking out of lack of information. I used that first Oehler for 25 years and then gave it to a cousin and got myself a brand new Oehler 35P. I would 'like' to have a LabRadar, but at my age it just isn't justified to spend that much.

Casual about your reloading? Buy one of the $100 chronos. Serious about reloading, especially for accuracy, buy the Oehler 35P or the LabRadar............. Just my humble opinion, .........

A Story: Back when I first getting acquainted with the first Oehler 35, I had a question that with a little patience and reading I could have answered. But, on an impluse I called the Oehler company. I asked the young lady 'help' person my question. She said, "Gee, I don't know that answer, but Dr. Oehler is walking by, perhaps he can answer." Well blow me down but Dr. Oehler got on the phone with me and we chatted like old friends for about 20 minutes. He quickly straightened me out on my 'problem' and then went into just how I was using my Oehler chronograph and was it giving me what I wanted and did I have any suggestions. I was dumbfounded at first but quickly picked up my end of the conversation and got what I needed and hopefully then added to Dr. Oehler's understanding of what one user was doing with his chronograph in the field. ..............

 

[Nemo288]

Before I got the LabRadar I adapted my ProChrono for indoor use.
When Caldwell first came out with their V.1 chrono it was offered with an optional infrared light kit that mounts like light baffles over the screen detectors.
It came with both battery pack and wall wart 110v adapter.
I got just the light kit and it fit just fine on the ProChrono with a little persuasion.
After using it at the indoor range which has fluorescent lights (worked great)
I got tired of the hassle of setting it up and adjusting it when I could even get to it.
In the 30 years I have used the 2 ProChronos I have had I have never shot one to death.
Current one has a couple little dings from shrapnel when I let the range owner shoot over it.
Suspect he was shooting plated bullets too fast and they disintegrated.

I notice Competition Electronics now offers a light kit for the ProChrono but it has no battery pack.
I would need to pack a long extension cord to use 100V at my range. There are no convenient outlets.
Recommend the Caldwell lights if they are still a thing.

The 95 on the ProChrono screen is from shooting a rubber band as fast as I could across it.
Kinda told me the lighting kit was working.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

I handloaded for 35 years and thought I really knew my stuff. Until I got my first Oehler 35. I quickly found that there were nuances in handloading results that I was overlooking out of lack of information. I used that first Oehler for 25 years and then gave it to a cousin and got myself a brand new Oehler 35P. I would 'like' to have a LabRadar, but at my age it just isn't justified to spend that much.

Casual about your reloading? Buy one of the $100 chronos. Serious about reloading, especially for accuracy, buy the Oehler 35P or the LabRadar............. Just my humble opinion, .........

A Story: Back when I first getting acquainted with the first Oehler 35, I had a question that with a little patience and reading I could have answered. But, on an impluse I called the Oehler company. I asked the young lady 'help' person my question. She said, "Gee, I don't know that answer, but Dr. Oehler is walking by, perhaps he can answer." Well blow me down but Dr. Oehler got on the phone with me and we chatted like old friends for about 20 minutes. He quickly straightened me out on my 'problem' and then went into just how I was using my Oehler chronograph and was it giving me what I wanted and did I have any suggestions. I was dumbfounded at first but quickly picked up my end of the conversation and got what I needed and hopefully then added to Dr. Oehler's understanding of what one user was doing with his chronograph in the field. ..............

I met Dr. Ken(Oehler) at the shot show in Atlanta.....Nice guy!

 

[Wise_A]

Just my exp using all kinds of diff chronos.

We're the same guy, at two different price points

 

[fredj338]

We're the same guy, at two different price points

Well even then, I am not popping for a new chrono. The oehler works great, just a bit more PITA to setup. My buddy has lots of disposable income & bought a new Oehler 35p. It is still in the box, he just keeps using his CED. BTW, he started with a ChronyBM. He is the type of guy always looking for the better tool. He has a case collator, just dump the brass in & turn it on, sorts it buy caliber. I shoot about 5x as much as he does & I wont go that far!

 

[bwxmas]

This picture is why I use the Oehler.
Everything else is handled by the Labradar.
Yes, I have compared them, and they are close, when the velocities are under 3900.
The Oehler takes about 7-10 minutes to setup, the Labraradr is under 15-30 seconds. I really, really like it.
To me anything else is just settling for what you can afford, or what you choose to afford.
I still don't understand why people on here rave about Dillon, and Redding(which I use), but test it on anything but the best.
They are cheap for a reason. Have you ever heard of anyone griping about an Oehler? Not me, but every other one mentioned in this thread has detractors. It should tell you something.
I have had 0 Problems with the Labradar when tested under their conditions, but the last month, I have been working on the fast ones. The Oehler gets used, which again I have 0 problems with after over 20yrs of service.

 

[Nemo288]

Now you got me curious.
Exactly what are you shooting at 4613 fps or did you accidently set the machine to cm/sec?
I am assuming that's one of the 17 cal varmint rounds or similar.
Ever calculate the RPS of those bullets going Mach 4?
That's a lot of rotational stress!
Bullet RPS = MV X 12/Twist Rate (in inches)
If you have a twist of 16 that's 3460 RPS!

 

[LAA]

I have the Dillon 650, the Redding SS, and have went to quite an expense, for perfection, in three AR-15 builds. But, at the moment, my ProChrono digital from Competition Electronics has filled notebooks full of very useful information. It has worked well!

One reply referred to $100 Chronos as a device for casual reloaders, while the $500 units are for the serious. I don't agree with that assessment. I've used the ProChrono as a serious piece of equipement, to obtain the information I needed. The ProChrono is far more dependable than not. Someday, perhaps a more expensive unit. But probably not. I have this thing about expensive triggers & barrels for ARs. Oh well.....

 

[Nemo288]

What ever works for one's circumstance is the proper kit at that point.
I got different chronos as my requirements and usage changed.

 

[BRush]

Check out LabRadar. It's a Doppler radar chrony. No gates, easy set up, muzzle and down range readings. Unit sets on bench on side of firearm so nothing extends in front of or in back of bench. Only unit that can be easily used at public indoor range. Pricy, but worth it if your going to use it on a regular basis.

 

[bwxmas]

Everyone has a reason to Justify their reason for their equipment.
I spend a great deal of money getting my ammunition correct. I personally will not scrimp on the one piece of equipment that tells me what the end result is.
It makes no sense to me that people on this board argue over what powder, a tenth of a grain here or there, brass, primers etc, then go test it on a 55-100.00 piece of equipment.
As I said above if that is all you can afford that is fine, but if you think you are getting the same results as an Oehler, you are just kidding yourself.
There is also a reason why all the youtubers pull out their new shiny toy, and compare against an Oehler. Because Oehler is the Benchmark for a reason.
The day I chronographed the load above, I shot from 660fps 22, 243, 264, and 204 @4600fps. It did not miss a single shot. Under 3900 the Labradar did as well. There is a reason ALL the manufacturers use Oehler.
I think in the future the Labradar will be just as good. In my mind they will update their software, and be good to go.
When I buy a tool, I buy the best I can afford, and the results usually bear out the reason for cost. When it comes to Electronics, you will always pay more for the best. Cheap, and great are not packaged together.

Nemo,
It was a fast 204 I was working on for a friend, I could have gone further, but my gut said to quit. There was no excess pressure signs, and these cases were reloaded after. Still tight. I have no doubt I could have got to 4700, but chose not to. I won't post the load, as I don't want anyone to follow me, but it is not as high as you would think. As I was shooting one load at a time, the Oehler was the only one I would trust, as I would have been mighty upset to have missed a shot.

 

[Nemo288]

I agree in general about electronics.
I was a bench technician, broadcast engineer, and cable TV control room engineer for 35 years.
I used the same basic argument when trying to get the bean counters to buy me a very expensive piece of test equipment (usually in the $10k range).
Sometimes they bought it, sometimes not.
Consumer electronics usually follows the same pattern as well.