In the light of the recent upswing in violence in our school systems (Sandy Hook Conn.). What do you think about teachers carrying concealed weapons? Should additional training be required or should CCWs be outlawed for teachers altogether? I realize that this can be a controversial topic but, I am a teacher and I would feel more secure knowing that I could protect my students and myself should the need arise.
Teachers and Concealed Weapons?
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dougb1946
Member
There are already properly trained teachers carrying concealed in several states, with no problems. Concealed is concealed, and in my view is more effective than an armed uniformed guard sitting at a desk in the entryway.
There is no upswing in the violence, just more coverage. Like airplane crashes, school shootings are rare, tragic, and covered by TV until the next great tragedy.
There is no upswing in the violence, just more coverage. Like airplane crashes, school shootings are rare, tragic, and covered by TV until the next great tragedy.
StatesRightist
Member
I think you need both visible security and teachers carrying concealed. It should be optional/at will for teachers, but be required of Administrators.
I also feel there should be mandatory training firearms, shoot, don't shoot etc for those who do carry. There should also be mandatory training for all school personnel on what to do in case of an active shooter, bullet proof secure doors on all entry and classroom doors and mandatory drills carried out with students.
That way panic would be less, in a lock down you could secure your door so no one could get to you and as you say, worst case scenario an armed response would be available.
This would go hand in hand with counselors and psychologists being required to forward the names of all students who they know pose a potential threat to others to the authorities. The school system should then required to have a hearing on whether to remove the student or not, as well as a judge review whether the threat should be put in mental health custody, barring a complete psychological review. All of the above should be statutorily required with a very short time window allowed.
Finally, counselors, psychologists and administrators should be criminally and civilly liable for any failure to comply.
There's a long answer to your question.
P.S. Bullying should be an automatic expulsion and the teachers/admins civilly liable for failure to deal with it.
I also feel there should be mandatory training firearms, shoot, don't shoot etc for those who do carry. There should also be mandatory training for all school personnel on what to do in case of an active shooter, bullet proof secure doors on all entry and classroom doors and mandatory drills carried out with students.
That way panic would be less, in a lock down you could secure your door so no one could get to you and as you say, worst case scenario an armed response would be available.
This would go hand in hand with counselors and psychologists being required to forward the names of all students who they know pose a potential threat to others to the authorities. The school system should then required to have a hearing on whether to remove the student or not, as well as a judge review whether the threat should be put in mental health custody, barring a complete psychological review. All of the above should be statutorily required with a very short time window allowed.
Finally, counselors, psychologists and administrators should be criminally and civilly liable for any failure to comply.
There's a long answer to your question.
P.S. Bullying should be an automatic expulsion and the teachers/admins civilly liable for failure to deal with it.
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amazingflapjack
US Veteran
The salient question, in my view, would be one of retrospect. Those (politicians and others) whose negative, knee jerk reaction to the NRA's suggestion to have armed personnel in schools in the immediate future, should then be asked if they would have chosen to have those armed individuals in the school when this deranged individual showed up, in retrospect. All who held to their initial negative response, would, in my view, show us where the reasonable, responsible logic was.
I absolutely support letting teachers carry. Parents too, for that matter. The whole "Gun Free Zone" thing has been shown to be ineffective, and actually more dangerous. I have read Texas is considering letting teachers carry. Good for them. But it would obviously be optional, and I think training should be provided.
The other consideration is this, and I don't want to get political, but I'll be careful.
Many teachers are more Liberal than Conservative, and the thought of being armed would be anathema to them. Especially in the blue states. Probably in Texas it might be different, but I think the teachers that would carry would be in the minority.
Personally, I'm glad some of mine weren't carrying. I'd probably be dead, but that's another story.
Jim
The other consideration is this, and I don't want to get political, but I'll be careful.
Many teachers are more Liberal than Conservative, and the thought of being armed would be anathema to them. Especially in the blue states. Probably in Texas it might be different, but I think the teachers that would carry would be in the minority.Personally, I'm glad some of mine weren't carrying. I'd probably be dead, but that's another story.
Jim
harvester1
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With a Concealed Pistol License and some additional training to fit particular school needs, I support the idea. I am a Teacher, Psychologist, and Social Worker albiet, retired.
turnejm
Member
Teachers and Firearms?
First and Foremost - An Individual has the right to Protect themselves and their Loved Ones!!! If a teacher wishes to go through the Training and Certification for a CCW License, More Power to Them! But, to be expected (I wish I could underline "expected") to be a Law Officer and a Solider, is asking for a lot of trouble. It is my understanding that passive security measures were in place, and was breached at Sandy Hook. Locks and security bars will only slow down an intruder, not stop them. When our society has to arm and protect our elementary schools and Churches, It is the time to step back and re-evaluate the Leadership and laws of this country! Removal of self defense weapons from a law abiding CITIZEN of this country is not the answer! Thank You, John
First and Foremost - An Individual has the right to Protect themselves and their Loved Ones!!! If a teacher wishes to go through the Training and Certification for a CCW License, More Power to Them! But, to be expected (I wish I could underline "expected") to be a Law Officer and a Solider, is asking for a lot of trouble. It is my understanding that passive security measures were in place, and was breached at Sandy Hook. Locks and security bars will only slow down an intruder, not stop them. When our society has to arm and protect our elementary schools and Churches, It is the time to step back and re-evaluate the Leadership and laws of this country! Removal of self defense weapons from a law abiding CITIZEN of this country is not the answer! Thank You, John
As a CCW Permit holder and teacher in a state the allows CCW in schools, I carry at work. Safety for my students and myself is my #1 priority, and I'm prepared to use deadly force if required.
Step 1- Turn off lights and barricade the door.
Step 2- Get all my students together so they cannot be seen from any window
Step 3- Call 911 and quickly explain the situation
Step 4- Get ready to respond with lethal force if the assilant tries to enter the room
I'm not SWAT trained, and have no desire to go looking for trouble in the halls against someone probably armed with a rifle or shotgun. I have one school aged child, and am fine with the idea of their teacher being armed too.
Most teachers take their responsibilities seriously, and are no doubt serious about protecting their kids if they go through the time and expense of getting a CCW permit.
Step 1- Turn off lights and barricade the door.
Step 2- Get all my students together so they cannot be seen from any window
Step 3- Call 911 and quickly explain the situation
Step 4- Get ready to respond with lethal force if the assilant tries to enter the room
I'm not SWAT trained, and have no desire to go looking for trouble in the halls against someone probably armed with a rifle or shotgun. I have one school aged child, and am fine with the idea of their teacher being armed too.
Most teachers take their responsibilities seriously, and are no doubt serious about protecting their kids if they go through the time and expense of getting a CCW permit.
On the Today Show they aired a short segment on teachers flocking to gun training classes, some of which are being offered for free.
A couple of interviewed teachers said they'd like to be able to protect themselves and their students....
A couple of interviewed teachers said they'd like to be able to protect themselves and their students....
Our Pastor, at the church I am a member of, is well protected. Many of the congregation carry and are CCW permit holders. It is a sad state when we have to protect our churches from those that should be institutionalized. I classifying myself as a Conservative and find myself in the minority in my profession of teaching.
357-RevolverGuy
Member
I'd like to see a program that would allow teachers to take their concealed carry class free or at a discount. Perhaps that would encourage many to learn more about firearms and become responsible gun owners.
Rastoff
US Veteran
This is a misnomer. The shooting at Sandy Hook is not an indicator of an "upswing" in violence. It is an isolated incident.
That said, I believe that teachers should be handled like every other citizen. If they want to carry, they should be able to do so. If they don't, they shouldn't be forced to.
I would like to see an armed guard at schools. Our kids are our most precious commodity.
I'm all for teachers carrying concealed in schools as guardians. IF they are trained beyond the CCW requirements. I.e. in gun handling, shoot/don't shoot, hostage situations, and specific protective protocols for their class rooms.
I've had a Florida CCW and currently hold a Washington CCW. In both cases the requirements were pretty minimal and I wouldn't feel competent to handle a school shooting incident without more training.
YMMV.
I've had a Florida CCW and currently hold a Washington CCW. In both cases the requirements were pretty minimal and I wouldn't feel competent to handle a school shooting incident without more training.
YMMV.
Rastoff
US Veteran
Front Sight is offering free training to any teacher who wants it and will carry a gun.
I'd like to see teachers woth a CCW from their state be able to carry in their school. It would be more of a deterrent: the terrorist woudn't know which schools or classrooms might be able to offer effective resistance.
Armed guards woldn't be as effective; they'd be a lot more expensive, and an armed intruder would plan to take them out first.
Armed guards woldn't be as effective; they'd be a lot more expensive, and an armed intruder would plan to take them out first.
PuertoRican
Member
All schools in TN are gun free zones. My son teaches at the local high school. He has had a carry permit for five years but has to leave his piece at home when he goes to work. I am totally in favor of allowing teachers with permits to carry on school premises.
DigiRebel
Member
This, so very much this.
Talking with a co-worker in late December this conversation came up. As a student in a shooting situation, would you feel better being herded into a "safe" corner of the room, having the door locked and lights turned off and hoping that an armed assailant doesn't realize that a bullet makes a great door key. Or that plus the teacher pulls a weapon and says, "If anyone forces their way through this door, I am going to blow their effing head off."
I don't think armed teachers should be mandatory, but I do think that teachers who choose to should be able to carry. Look at the teachers in Connecticut. They were heroes. From the Principal and School Psychologist who tried to attack the filth shooting in a school (God how I wish they'd been properly armed!) to the teachers who used their bodies to defend children. If just 1 or two of them had been carrying and prepared to defend the kids how different would the numbers have been that day.
gunny4053
US Veteran
Talk to the teachers in Utah and Kansas, I believe the only two states that currently authorize teachers to carry at school. There is a training company in Utah that teaches CCW classes, and has offered their training to any Utah educator who wishes to attend for free. The response was so overwhelming they had to schedule additional classes.
Kind of funny, haven't heard about too many school shootings in Kansas or Utah, but that's lost on the media and DC. Just sayin.
Kind of funny, haven't heard about too many school shootings in Kansas or Utah, but that's lost on the media and DC. Just sayin.
As a twenty year veteran of law enforcement, and a member of this forum who has already responded to this thread, teachers in OUR COUNTRY go through a complete and thorough background check before they get hired as teachers, and should, without question, have the ability to CCW if they choose, with proper training, period, anywhere in OUR COUNTRY, to protect OUR CHILDREN, period. I also think that states that allow CCW but allow public access businesses to ban CCW as they choose are full of ****......if CCW is legal in the state, it should be legal wherever you go, without question.....the second amemdment says so......and i'm a cop who believes in OUR CONSTITUTION.........period.
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littleriver1
US Veteran
I am not sure I want teathers to CCW, but I am leaning that way. I still think a show of Police presents at each school, with a marked car in front and a cop in the school, every one but the bad guy would feel a lot better about their day. We've been doing that here for years. It also helps to keep drugs off campass.
olwogo
Member
I agree about the political part! And we considering that here in Texas. It should be your decision to or not to! And I like the idea of a little more training, although we, in this State require a shooting test (such as it is ) to acquire a CHL. To the one who didn't like the no-carry zones I agree! I am still waiting for Texas to enact an open-carry law. Things would be simpler. And I think that before they make NEW laws, they should enforce the ones we have on the books now. Without that, what good are new ones? Except to hamper Law-abiding citizens! Just my opinion. Thanks!I absolutely support letting teachers carry. Parents too, for that matter. The whole "Gun Free Zone" thing has been shown to be ineffective, and actually more dangerous. I have read Texas is considering letting teachers carry. Good for them. But it would obviously be optional, and I think training should be provided.
The other consideration is this, and I don't want to get political, but I'll be careful.
Personally, I'm glad some of mine weren't carrying. I'd probably be dead, but that's another story.
Jim
A rural school district in N. Texas not too far from me takes advantage of the little-publicized TX law granting local option to arm schools. They do not give interviews, and don't discuss how many are armed or who they are. The high school sits right next to a major divided highway, but is 20 min away from nearest law enforcement, at best.
Some people still know how to protect their kids the traditional American way, not by relying on ineffective "gun free zones," which term is a moronic non-sequiter anyway.
Some people still know how to protect their kids the traditional American way, not by relying on ineffective "gun free zones," which term is a moronic non-sequiter anyway.
Harrison
US Veteran
I think it all depends on the particular teacher or school administrator. I know some that I would not trust with a water pistol. They have neither the desire, aptitude, or will to carry a deadly weapon and use it in a reasonable manner. For the right person, with an appropriate level of training, yes concealed carry within the school should be allowed. The fact that they are carrying should not be advertised or announced.
tom-tom
Member
As a retired teacher in Texas and licensed CCW, I wish I'd been legally able to carry a weapon, but the gun free zone put a stop to that. Since I've left the profession for medical reasons, I don't mind admitting that there were times I went armed at work. It would've cost me my career with other painful consequences, but my principal and campus police were aware of my status and turned a blind eye.
This, by the way was in an alternative education center where I daily dealt with students as young as twelve who'd been expelled from regular classes. (In one five year period, I had five students, including one female, who were charged with murder. Most of my students were there for drug or gang related activities, although we had our share of 'minor' offenders like kids who were expelled for persistent classroom disruption.) There was considerable discussion on our campus on how to deal with armed violence, although our students weren't profiled as mass shooters - drive-bys were more their style. My students were predominantly lower class whites and minorities. Typical school shooters are white middle to upper class males.
As far as the background checks that teachers go through, I can speak only for Texas: it could be much better. Look at the number of pedophiles, drug and alcohol abusers, and deadbeats that slip through the system and work for school districts.
This, by the way was in an alternative education center where I daily dealt with students as young as twelve who'd been expelled from regular classes. (In one five year period, I had five students, including one female, who were charged with murder. Most of my students were there for drug or gang related activities, although we had our share of 'minor' offenders like kids who were expelled for persistent classroom disruption.) There was considerable discussion on our campus on how to deal with armed violence, although our students weren't profiled as mass shooters - drive-bys were more their style. My students were predominantly lower class whites and minorities. Typical school shooters are white middle to upper class males.
As far as the background checks that teachers go through, I can speak only for Texas: it could be much better. Look at the number of pedophiles, drug and alcohol abusers, and deadbeats that slip through the system and work for school districts.
vigil617
US Veteran
I, too, think that teachers who desire to CC should be allowed to do so, provided they can meet reasonably stringent requirements to do so, including proper training for firearms carry, and a separate updated background check, same as the rest of us (here in North Carolina) must undergo before being issued a permit.
I think it is, frankly, a travesty that a teacher is not allowed to defend him/herself in the workplace, especially when no on-site armed security is available. I think it is high time we reconsidered the whole "gun free zone" idea, which perhaps was a good one when mass shootings were not on anyone's radar, but with the increasing occurrences of them (even though, thankfully, they are still isolated events), seems anachronistic and out of touch.
Interestingly, my wife, who is a teacher in elementary and middle-school grades at two schools, has thought long and hard about this and come to the conclusion that she believes armed teachers in the classroom would not be a good situation. Knowing some of those she works with, I don't blame her for feeling that way, and I respect her for it.
Still, for teachers of suitable training and temparament, I fully support their being able to CC in their workplaces. In fact, I applaud those who already do, and thank them for the selflessness that it requires to decide to do so.
I think it is, frankly, a travesty that a teacher is not allowed to defend him/herself in the workplace, especially when no on-site armed security is available. I think it is high time we reconsidered the whole "gun free zone" idea, which perhaps was a good one when mass shootings were not on anyone's radar, but with the increasing occurrences of them (even though, thankfully, they are still isolated events), seems anachronistic and out of touch.
Interestingly, my wife, who is a teacher in elementary and middle-school grades at two schools, has thought long and hard about this and come to the conclusion that she believes armed teachers in the classroom would not be a good situation. Knowing some of those she works with, I don't blame her for feeling that way, and I respect her for it.
Still, for teachers of suitable training and temparament, I fully support their being able to CC in their workplaces. In fact, I applaud those who already do, and thank them for the selflessness that it requires to decide to do so.
Rastoff
US Veteran
I don't agree with this statement by itself. Why should teachers require more stringent requirements than any other citizen?
Florida_Lawdog
Member
No Problem arming educators
I can see no problem with properly trained teachers arming themselves. A teacher would likely not be able to stop some nut with an AR but might just slow him down. If it saved one life it would be worth it.
A more cost effective and less drastic solution would be safe rooms placed at various locations in the school. Many businesses have them now, and they do work.
I can see no problem with properly trained teachers arming themselves. A teacher would likely not be able to stop some nut with an AR but might just slow him down. If it saved one life it would be worth it.
A more cost effective and less drastic solution would be safe rooms placed at various locations in the school. Many businesses have them now, and they do work.
vigil617
US Veteran
I should have said this better, and you're right: teachers shouldn't have to meet more stringent requirements than any other citizen to obtain a CC permit. I'm just thinking that my carrying concealed in my office workplace feels different than it would if I were in a roomful of someone else's kids all day. I guess I was thinking out loud that maybe some extra level of review should be in place before a teacher could have the blessing of the school administration to carry concealed in class...but then, that's got some inherent problems with it, too, I realize, including privacy issues for the armed person....
Still, that teacher, it seems to me, needs to be vetted somehow as someone of suitable temperament, training, and willingness to use the weapon before I would want him or her carrying in the same classroom as my own kid. Vetted, I mean, at a level beyond that of obtaining the permit, which frankly, is not all that difficult IMHO.
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