Terminology of S&W Firearms

[Alpo]

I always heard they were grips, until I read an article about Herret's Stocks. Mr. Herret was quoted as saying, "I carry my clothes in a grip. These are stocks."

It must be nice to know words that only have one meaning. Personally, I thought stocks were those large wooden things in front of the courthouse, that you locked minor miscreants into for a short period of time, allowing the populace to come by and shout insults and throw rotten vegetables at them.

Either that or stocks were pieces of paper you bought, that showed some degree of ownership in a company.

Oh yes, and that thing you carry your clothes in is a suitcase.

 

[DWalt]

"Then it follows that the answer to my question is that "acp" stands for "Automatic Colt Pistol"." That is correct.

"I always heard they were grips, until I read an article about Herret's Stocks. Mr. Herret was quoted as saying, "I carry my clothes in a grip. These are stocks."
I suppose the stocks vs. grips debate will never end. However, like most people, I associate "Stocks" with long guns and "Grips" with pistols (both revolvers and automatics). If anyone has further doubt about the legitimacy of the use of "Grip," pull up the latest S&W website catalog. If you want to buy those wooden things for your pistol, and you go to the section where they are sold, you will find that they are called ---- GRIPS. Or maybe the people who developed the catalog never talked to anyone in S&W management about their terminology. While you are there, notice that it also refers to Magna grips as being "Service." I mention this only because there are some who believe that "Magna" and "Service" are mutually exclusive terms in regard to grips.

 

[H Richard]

As long as all these firearms have minimal "WEAR", not "WARE".

 

[model3sw]

Years back, an old timer gave me a list of descriptive words to advertise a gun that actually translated to something quite the opposite. Words, like "minty" would mean RUN the other way, or "Excellent condition for it's age" meant something has been used for a hammer for the past 100 years but it will still shoot at your own risk (or something like that), etc, etc. Anyone have that list ?

 

[DWalt]

Years back, an old timer gave me a list of descriptive words to advertise a gun that actually translated to something quite the opposite. Words, like "minty" would mean RUN the other way, or "Excellent condition for it's age" meant something has been used for a hammer for the past 100 years but it will still shoot at your own risk (or something like that), etc, etc. Anyone have that list ?

I remember there was an article of that nature in one of the older Gun Digest editions, maybe from the 1960s-70s.

 

[CelticSire]

It's Obsessive–compulsive disorder, not OCD.

It's CDO, the letters arranged alphabetically the way they SHOULD be.

P.S. It's "bullets", not "boolets".

 

[BlackAgnes]

FTE:

Failure to extract, eject, ?

 

[BigBill]

Do illegal aliens come from Mars?

Nope they been here for thousands of years because of the invention of the boat and oars. Many eons later came the sails.
My point is everything evolves what ever we call it as it evolves.
Its all good.

Clips
Stripper Clips
Magazines
Stripper Clips can feed certain magazines inside the receivers.

It's a ploy on words. Is it politically correct? Sometimes/ rarely.

 

[Muss Muggins]

I was looking through the Model 10 section of the SCSW over the weekend, and noticed that the SCSW uses the term "tapered" barrel. Where does that leave us in the discussion?

 

[DWalt]

Stripper clips, such as used for loading various fixed (and some removable) magazines, are also called "Chargers." I think that is what the British called them. The M1 Garand clip is actually an "en bloc" clip, as the clip loaded with cartridges is inserted and locked into place, to be ejected upward at the last shot. There are other military rifles which are designed to use an en bloc clip. Not a really good idea, as without the en bloc clip, you have a single shot weapon.

 

[Absalom]

I was looking through the Model 10 section of the SCSW over the weekend, and noticed that the SCSW uses the term "tapered" barrel. Where does that leave us in the discussion?

Well, if you want to get all nitpicky (not that we haven't done that here ), "pencil" and "standard" are labels applied by people to the barrel type, while "tapered" is actually an accurate adjective descriptor which means something, because that's what distinguishes the barrel optically, both from the very early hand ejectors and the HB versions. In contrast, "pencil" is flat out asinine, and "standard" is so general as to be meaningless.

 

[k22fan]

[...] While we are on the topic; why is an "ejector shroud" called a "lug" when it goes to the end of the barrel?

Because Colt realized calling it dead weight would not have flattered their most expensive revolver.

Also while an under barrel lug forms a figure 8 cross section a S&W shroud extends down further, is flatter and has its own distinctive cross sectional shape. One batch of 1990s 686s and many Rugers are well described as short lug since they have the same cross sectional shape as their company's full lugs.

 

[one eye joe]

Actually, early references to the cartridge use .45 CAP as its name (Colt Automatic Pistol). I have also seen references to .32 CAP and .380 CAP. I have even seen CAPH (H=hammerless, .32 and .380 pistols) Somewhere along the line, someone must have felt that switching the C and A had some advantage. Or maybe they just didn't like calling it a .45 "CAP". The official U. S. Army cartridge name is neither .45 ACP nor .45 CAP - it's "Pistol Ball Caliber .45 M1911 (or Model of 1911 on early boxes)."

Didn't the short-lived .45 GAP stand for .45 "Glock Automatic Pistol"? I guess it's still around, but I haven't heard anything about it in a long time. Now if they had named it the .45 AGP, it might have been a marketing success story. I have an interesting tale about the .45 GAP as a potential military pistol cartridge, but it it's too long and involved to discuss here, and nothing ever came of it anyway.

THE ONLY DESIGNATIONS THAT I HAVE EVER SEEN ON BOXES OF MILITARY .45 AMMO HAS BEEN "M1911 Cartridge, Ball, Caliber, .45" OR "M1911, Cartridge, Ball, Match Grade, Caliber, .45"…..

A FELLOW ARMY, VIETNAM VETERAN FRIEND OF MINE GAVE ME A BOX OF AMMO INTENDED FOR USE AT CAMP PERRY, BY THE US ARMY MARKSMANSHIP UNIT. IT WAS MARKED WITH THE YEAR OF THE CAMP PERRY SHOOT THAT IT WAS LOADED FOR. I DO NOT RECALL EXACTLY HOW THE BOX WAS MARKED BUT IT WAS PACKAGED DIFFERENTLY THAN ANY OTHER MILITARY AMMO THAT I HAVE EVER HANDLED. I NEVER SHOT THE AMMO, BECAUSE I PREFER SWC RATHER THAN RN FOR TARGET WORK, AND BECAUSE OF ITS COLLECTABLE NATURE. I ENDED UP RETURNING IT TO HIM, WHEN HE PURCHASED A BEAUTIFUL VINTAGE US ARMY 1911, SOME 20 YEARS LATER. HE WAS IN SHOCK…..

MY FRIEND WAS AN OFFICER, WHO GOT VERY FRIENDLY WITH THE 'SMITHS AND SHOOTERS OF THE USAMU WHEN HE WAS STATIONED @ FT BENNING, GA. AFTER HIS TOUR IN VIETNAM. THEY PUT TOGETHER A BOLT ACTION RIFLE IN .308, FOR HIM, THAT WAS A WORK OF ART--AND I DON'T MEAN ENGRAVING OR ANYTHING COSMETIC. IF FACT IT WAS DEVOID OF ANY MARKINGS, INCLUDING A SERIAL NUMBER…….

.

 

[STCM(SW)]

I see a lot of guys are off there med's today........

 

[k22fan]

I'm just glad you grammar police don't have a 12 inch long yard stick to rap my knuckles each time I use the wrong term.

Worse punishment may lie ahead for you.

[...] Personally, I thought stocks were those large wooden things in front of the courthouse, that you locked S&Wforum members who use imperfect terminology into for a short period of time, allowing the populace to come by and shout insults and throw rotten vegetables at them. [...]

Elite National Security Administration bureaucrats are compiling data bases of S&W terminology errors as we type!

 

[JSR III]

The whole S&W discussion of whether to call them stocks, checking and yoke OR grips, checkering and crane comes from early S&W literature. Since the founders, Horace and Daniel, chose to use the terms stocks, checking and yoke, then to be true to the men that formed the company I use their terms.

While it is true that many folks in the gun world including the current ownership and the company historian have decided not to fight current trends and use mainstream terms, it does not change the fact that the founders of the company chose those words.

I do not know their reasoning. It is possible that they purposely used these words to be different from their largest competitor, COLT. I know that they did not like using the word COLT on their firearms when the gun fired a cartridge containing the word COLT.

So call it what you wish, but the men that formed the company did it for a reason and I will honor their decision as a collector and shooter of their guns. It's a free country (except for taxes) so do what you wish.

 

[Alpo]

Well, if you want to get all nitpicky (not that we haven't done that here ), "pencil" and "standard" are labels applied by people to the barrel type, while "tapered" is actually an accurate adjective descriptor which means something, because that's what distinguishes the barrel optically, both from the very early hand ejectors and the HB versions. In contrast, "pencil" is flat out asinine, and "standard" is so general as to be meaningless.

How you feel about "skinny"?

 

[Comrad]

This is my rifle this is my gun.....

 

[ISCS Yoda]

This is actually fun and amusing - you talk about stocks? Well, as a lawyer, sometimes I have to explain the concept of shares of stock versus just stock or just shares. You think that's easy when the terms are interchangeable? HA!

I'd rather explain "CTG". At least I can tell people it means "cartridge", say it with a straight face, and they believe me.

And speaking of opossum versus possum how much trouble in a politically correct world can you get into when you're pig hunting or coon hunting or explaining the cute animal on your porch last night? I solve that dilemma with feral hog and raccoon but, still, if I'm with Texans I have a far lesser problem than with folks from Noo Yawk Sittee!

 

[ISCS Yoda]

This is my rifle this is my gun.....

You think so?

Try calling a howitzer a gun to an artillery puke.....