Texas Law That Allows Prohibition of Concealed Carry

[HorizontalMike]

SEE ANY PROBLEMS WITH THIS SIGNAGE AS COMPARED TO THE LAW?

BTW, I DO understand what "written language identical to the following" means... ...I am NOT going to tell you what kind of building this signage is on, however...

Directly (cut&paste) from PENAL CODE CHAPTER 30. BURGLARY AND CRIMINAL TRESPASS

"...Sec. 30.06. TRESPASS BY LICENSE HOLDER WITH A CONCEALED HANDGUN. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder:

(1) carries a concealed handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, on property of another without effective consent; and

(2) received notice that entry on the property by a license holder with a concealed handgun was forbidden.

(b) For purposes of this section, a person receives notice if the owner of the property or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner provides notice to the person by oral or written communication.

(c) In this section:

(1) "Entry" has the meaning assigned by Section 30.05(b).

(2) "License holder" has the meaning assigned by Section 46.035(f).

(3) "Written communication" means:

(A) a card or other document on which is written language identical to the following: "Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by license holder with a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (handgun licensing law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun"; or

(B) a sign posted on the property that:

(i) includes the language described by Paragraph (A) in both English and Spanish;

(ii) appears in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height; and

(iii) is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public.

(d) An offense under this section is a Class C misdemeanor punishable by a fine not to exceed $200, except that the offense is a Class A misdemeanor if it is shown on the trial of the offense that, after entering the property, the license holder was personally given the notice by oral communication described by Subsection (b) and subsequently failed to depart.

(e) It is an exception to the application of this section that the property on which the license holder carries a handgun is owned or leased by a governmental entity and is not a premises or other place on which the license holder is prohibited from carrying the handgun under Section 46.03 or 46.035.

Added by Acts 1997, 75th Leg., ch. 1261, Sec. 23, eff. Sept. 1, 1997. Amended by Acts 1999, 76th Leg., ch. 62, Sec. 9.24, eff. Sept. 1, 1999; Acts 2003, 78th Leg., ch. 1178, Sec. 2, eff. Sept. 1, 2003.

Amended by:

Acts 2015, 84th Leg., R.S., Ch. 437 (H.B. 910), Sec. 41, eff. January 1, 2016.

Acts 2015, 84th Leg., R.S., Ch. 437 (H.B. 910), Sec. 42, eff. January 1, 2016.

Acts 2015, 84th Leg., R.S., Ch. 437 (H.B. 910), Sec. 43, eff. January 1, 2016.
______________________________

 

[RV4driver]

Well, you addressed only 30.06, but showed signs for both 30.06 AND 30.07. Is it only the 30.06 you are referring to, or to both...in which case you have allowed for some interpretation. And with the law, that is NOT a good idea.

 

[moxie]

Not sure what you are asking.

But, if both signs are posted it means you can't carry a gun in there, openly or concealed. I've seen a few places, hospitals, posted like that.

 

[Rastoff]

Yes, the law in Texas allows a business to prevent concealed or open carry if they post the proper sign with the proper words in the proper size. What's your point?

In CA "No Guns" signs do not carry the weight of law. This means they can post a sign, but you can ignore it.

 

[Rastoff]

OK, I see it now. Yes, they misquoted the law. Technically they are wrong and that sign does not meet the requirements of 30.06.

The question now becomes, do you think a judge will agree with you? Is it worth the chance to test this in a court of law?

Personally, even if I can legally carry there, I refuse to do business at stores that display such signs. They obviously don't have the same beliefs as I do about constitutional rights. Therefore, they don't need my money.

 

[ISCS Yoda]

This is the required 30.07 language:

"Pursuant to Section 30.07, Penal Code (trespass by license holder with an openly carried handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (handgun licensing law), may not enter this property with a handgun that is carried openly";

If there's a difference I fail to see it but let's assume there is - so what? Are you seriously going to open carry into premises with that sign out front, regardless of what the premises might be?

This is the 30.06 language:



 

“Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by holder of license to carry a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (concealed handgun law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun”;  

First -

Concealed carry is different because if you consciously carry a concealed handgun in violation of a 30.06 sign the person in charge of the premises has to literally affirmatively determine that you're doing it. I'm not recommending doing it but I am saying that concealed is concealed - getting caught is a matter of your error and someone's good observation.

But open carry? If you're going to do it and spend time determining if a 30.07 sign is precisely correct or not, thereby enabling you to violate it, you better carry your lawyer's phone number with you at all times, because you WILL be arrested.

Second -

There is a saying in the law that goes like this:

de minimis non curat lex

Essentially, it means that the law has no cure for trifles, trifling errors, etc. So maybe the sign has a typo - so what? Again, if you think that typo is sufficient to permit you to carry concealed in those premises carry your lawyer's number with you becausewh at is going to happen is you'll get arrested. You'll pay your lawyer to get you out of jail and keep you out. He'll move to quash the arrest on the grounds that the sign was incorrect. If you get the right judge s/he will agree and home you go. If you get the wrong judge you'll go to trial. Probably win, too.

But won't that be fun for you?

 

[HorizontalMike]

Where This Signage Is Posted

"...(A) a card or other document on which is written language identical to the following:..."

YES, the 30.06 posted sign is NOT identical language under the very same Texas State Law that requires it to be so.

Would you all now be surprised if I told you that this signage is on a Federal Building that I am required to do business with?

I CC, however I consciously try to NOT do so when entering such buildings. I am just confused/worried that at some time I might actually forget (brain fart) at some time though I try to remain ever vigilant of the convoluted requirements (both Federal and State) here in Texas. At least a CC violation under 30.06 is just a Class 3 Misdemeanor with $200 fine if you are caught.

I do agree with above posters that refuse to do business with such establishments like Whole Foods and such, whenever possible. I do the same when possible, but sometimes it is not possible to avoid same.

 

[Jaysq]

"
YES, the 30.06 posted sign is NOT identical language under the very same Texas State Law that requires it to be so.

Would you all now be surprised if I told you that this signage is on a Federal Building that I am required to do business with?

If it is on a Federal Building, I doubt if their signs need to conform to Texas law.

 

[HorizontalMike]

USC 18 Sect.930

If it is on a Federal Building, I doubt if their signs need to conform to Texas law.

You may be correct, as Federal Law always trumps State Law. However, reading USC18 Section 930, it appears that there is an exception (d) that allows the carrying firearms in Federal facilities for "...other lawful purposes..." as highlighted below. As it appears, as long as you are licensed and act with no criminal intent, then you are within the law to CC in a Federal facility.
https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2011-title18/pdf/USCODE-2011-title18-partI-chap44-sec930.pdf


18 U.S.C. 930 - Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities

(a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever
knowingly possesses or causes to be present
a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal
facility (other than a Federal court facility),
or attempts to do so, shall be fined under
this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or
both.

(b) Whoever, with intent that a firearm or
other dangerous weapon be used in the commission
of a crime, knowingly possesses or causes
to be present such firearm or dangerous weapon
in a Federal facility, or attempts to do so, shall
be fined under this title or imprisoned not more
than 5 years, or both.

(c) A person who kills any person in the course
of a violation of subsection (a) or (b), or in the
course of an attack on a Federal facility involving
the use of a firearm or other dangerous
weapon, or attempts or conspires to do such an
act, shall be punished as provided in sections
1111, 1112, 1113, and 1117.

(d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to—

• (1) the lawful performance of official duties
  by an officer, agent, or employee of the United
  States, a State, or a political subdivision
  thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in
  or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation,
  or prosecution of any violation of
  law;
  
  (2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous
  weapon by a Federal official or a member
  of the Armed Forces if such possession is
  authorized by law; or
  
  (3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other
  dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident
  to hunting or other lawful purposes.

(e)(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), whoever
knowingly possesses or causes to be present
a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal
court facility, or attempts to do so, shall be
fined under this title, imprisoned not more than
2 years, or both.
(2) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to conduct
which is described in paragraph (1) or (2) of subsection
(d).
(f) Nothing in this section limits the power of
a court of the United States to punish for contempt
or to promulgate rules or orders regulating,
restricting, or prohibiting the possession of
weapons within any building housing such court
or any of its proceedings, or upon any grounds
appurtenant to such building.

(g) As used in this section:

• (1) The term ‘‘Federal facility’’ means a
  building or part thereof owned or leased by the
  Federal Government, where Federal employees
  are regularly present for the purpose of performing
  their official duties.
  
  (2) The term ‘‘dangerous weapon’’ means a
  weapon, device, instrument, material, or substance,
  animate or inanimate, that is used for,
  or is readily capable of, causing death or serious
  bodily injury, except that such term does
  not include a pocket knife with a blade of less
  than 21⁄2 inches in length.
  
  (3) The term ‘‘Federal court facility’’ means
  the courtroom, judges’ chambers, witness
  rooms, jury deliberation rooms, attorney con-
  ference rooms, prisoner holding cells, offices
  of the court clerks, the United States attorney,
  and the United States marshal, probation
  and parole offices, and adjoining corridors of
  any court of the United States.

(h) Notice of the provisions of subsections (a)
and (b) shall be posted conspicuously at each
public entrance to each Federal facility, and notice
of subsection (e) shall be posted conspicuously
at each public entrance to each Federal
court facility, and no person shall be convicted
of an offense under subsection (a) or (e) with respect
to a Federal facility if such notice is not
so posted at such facility, unless such person
had actual notice of subsection (a) or (e), as the
case may be.

 

[jdh]

But won't that be fun for you?

Nor will it be cheap.

 

[jdh]

Would you all now be surprised if I told you that this signage is on a Federal Building that I am required to do business with?

Federal owned or a private commercial building leased by the Federal Government?

If it is a leased building the property management company may have put up the signs on it and all company buildings. So no I would not be surprised.

 

[Rastoff]

Which federal building? If it's a contractor, they need to have the proper Texas sign. If it's a federal building, staffed by federal employees, you can't carry there if it's posted in any manner.

 

[cowboy4evr]

GOD Bless Arizona . We are not required to have a permit to conceal carry or open carry . Open carry is quite common there . Very few business's post signage prohibiting either . They want/need the business .

 

[dougb1946]

off topic-yellow fonts are hard to read.

 

[Muss Muggins]

You may be correct, as Federal Law always trumps State Law. However, reading USC18 Section 930, it appears that there is an exception (d) that allows the carrying firearms in Federal facilities for "...other lawful purposes..." as highlighted below. As it appears, as long as you are licensed and act with no criminal intent, then you are within the law to CC in a Federal facility.
https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2011-title18/pdf/USCODE-2011-title18-partI-chap44-sec930.pdf

Let me know how that works out for you . . .

 

[joeintexas]

Maybe I just don't care for a confrontation, I keep it simple. If the place is posted I shop elsewhere. If its the post office and I have to be there I leave it locked in the truck. Doesn't ruffle my feathers at all.

 

[Rastoff]

If its the post office and I have to be there I leave it locked in the truck.

Just a note about the Post Office...

You cannot legally have a gun at the Post Office and that includes the parking lot. So, if you lock it in your truck, be sure your truck is not parked on Post Office grounds.

 

[hexnut]

I could care less about leaving mine in my truck at the post office. No one there cares either.

 

[jmace57]

Just an observation that since "open carry" passed in Texas, not only are there a lot of 30.07 notices, but a lot of businesses now are posted for 30.06 that weren't posted before. Since OC became allowed, I have seen ONE person carrying (with one of those stupid "Concealed Carry" stars on his belt).

I think that's been the net result of OC in Texas - more and more places are posting against CC and OC. WAY more.