DWalt
Member
Mossad "Hit Teams" of two to four agents armed with .22 pistols were often used. When the target was isolated, everyone on the team would open up on him. Not much chance of survival.
The .22 Is So Weak!!!
- Thread starter JayFramer
- Start date
Mossad "Hit Teams" of two to four agents armed with .22 pistols were often used. When the target was isolated, everyone on the team would open up on him. Not much chance of survival.
Vulcan Bob
Member
Yeah, it always dismays me when I see folk goofing around with a .22LR. If you question what's going on I hear (it's only a .22)! I'll bet they whistle going past grave yards too.
sigp220.45
US Veteran
I do.
A good friend of mine killed a gangbanger in a straight up gunfight, using his issued Sig P220 in .45 ACP. His killing shot hit the guy in the thigh, severing his femoral artery. He wasn't happy with his shooting, though under the circumstances (bullets coming his way) I'd say he did fine. While his .45 was in administrative time-out he asked for and was issued a 9mm Sig 226. When his 220 was released, he stuck with the 9mm since he shot it better.
He later used it to shoot and kill a running pit bull that had mauled a kid, and was satisfied with his choice.
chopshopcop
Member
.22's are just plain unpredictable. I've made many a homicide scene where the victim was done in with a slug from a .22 RG revolver, that was the weapon of choice around here for years until 9mm became more prevalent. Some were near instantaneous deaths, others died after quite some time had passed.
I made a call one night where the victim had been struck in the left forearm just above the wrist by a .22 round. While I was talking to him getting info for the report, he just up and died right there in front of me. Autopsy later showed the bullet had traveled up the arm, bounced off the collarbone and into the heart. He was bleeding out internally and no one knew it. He'd walked from the scene to a 24 hr minor med clinic and the staff there just did not have the training or expertise to properly deal with his wound.
I've personally shot a raccoon in the face with a .22, the first two rounds only pissed him off. It took 6 to put him down. It wouldn't be my first choice for self-defense but if it were all I had, I'd fire it dry at the threat and hope that multiple hits either stopped them or at least deterred them enough to make an escape to safety
I made a call one night where the victim had been struck in the left forearm just above the wrist by a .22 round. While I was talking to him getting info for the report, he just up and died right there in front of me. Autopsy later showed the bullet had traveled up the arm, bounced off the collarbone and into the heart. He was bleeding out internally and no one knew it. He'd walked from the scene to a 24 hr minor med clinic and the staff there just did not have the training or expertise to properly deal with his wound.
I've personally shot a raccoon in the face with a .22, the first two rounds only pissed him off. It took 6 to put him down. It wouldn't be my first choice for self-defense but if it were all I had, I'd fire it dry at the threat and hope that multiple hits either stopped them or at least deterred them enough to make an escape to safety
Arik
Member
I don't always agree with this gentleman but ...yea..... They all died at the hospital or in route. None of us know what condition they were in while in route. These were regular people going about their business. What if it was someone intent on doing you harm?
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the ringo kid
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No comment except I heard the majority of killings are done with .22s.
Watchdog
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Recent story? Who was the pro hunter? Got a link for that?
Lee's Landing Billy
Member
Please, don't fall for silly energy numbers. It is the mark of someone who hasn't shot many live things. My partner in B&M Rifles over a short period of time killed 4 elephants, 8 cape buffalo, 3 African lions, and 24+ Asiatic buffalo, shooting our rifles. He is the first to tell folks kinetic energy is a calculated formula that has NOTHING to do with shooting live things. Go and see Richard Davis on YT being shot from 3 feet away with a .308 while standing on one foot. .22s, as with most firearms will meet the killing formula. Penetration and Placement.
cowart
US Veteran
"Silly energy numbers" OK sure.
So does he carry a 22 rifle and killed all those animals with a 22?
Lead or HP bullet??
Yep. hunting Cape Buffalo with a bolt action 22lr What fun!
susieqz
Absent Comrade
this thing about rimfire ammo being unreliable is a myth.
that only happens with bulk.
i have never had a FTF with quality 22lr, like wolf.
i usually shoot 1,000 rounds of 22 every month, so i have a pretty good sampling.
some of us just shoot 22s better. i hit what i aim at with my little 22/45.
that only happens with bulk.
i have never had a FTF with quality 22lr, like wolf.
i usually shoot 1,000 rounds of 22 every month, so i have a pretty good sampling.
some of us just shoot 22s better. i hit what i aim at with my little 22/45.
suzieqz said:
For convenience, here's That Thing I said.
Now I'll go into further detail.
Modern shooters are spoiled rotten. They expect to toss any old ammunition into whatever they buy, and have the gun operate flawlessly. And because modern autopistols are so damned good--they mostly do!
Rimfires are a different story. They can be pretty picky, brand-to-brand, among quality brands. I've seen guns that didn't like Aguila, CCI, Eley, Wolf SK, etc, all for reasons known only to themselves.
Some shooters just can't get used to that idea.
.22LRs can also be strikingly sensitive to small errors in operation. My old Mk III match gun was happily reliable for thousands of rounds at a time--unless I just ever-so-lightly rested my thumb on the slide stop while it was cycling, at which point it would jam every time.
There was also a very nice lady who shot bullseye with us, but her Buckmark kept having stoppages during both timed and rapid fire--but always on the second string, regardless of what magazine she used. So I watched for a spell, and pointed out that while she slingshotted the slide for slow fire and the first string of timed and rapid, she always released with the slide stop for the second string of timed/rapid.
She stopped doing that, and the gun worked flawlessly thereafter. Of course, I also know of centerfire pistols that sensitive in the same way (and I wouldn't select them, either!).
Now, taking into account All Those Things I Said, is the .22LR inherently unreliable? No, of course not.
Is it as ruggedly foolproof as I would like my defensive pistols to be? Not even close.
Hardly stronger than a BB....
"Hardly stronger than a BB" is a very stupid thing to say.
"Hardly stronger than a BB" is a very stupid thing to say.
That's only if you consider a 9mm less-powerful than a .45
With modern bullet design and ammunition quality, I wouldn't. As much as that will enrage some.
JavierLaurido
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I have hunted from big game to small in this last 25 years on a land with plagues of rabbits. Some days i hunted by the morning, then after lunch, and then during the night all in the same day. I think i have kill more than 100.000 rabbits in al hunting configurations; on a truck, on a van, from cars, even some time from horses, with day ligth, or with lámps during night.
All those rabbit hunts where done; 95%, with 22 LR rifle, 3% with carabine pistols and pistols also on 22 LR, and a few 2% with shotgun (12 Gauge).
And I conclude by the experience of have hunted many year with the 22LR. That this caliber is week in general terms. I have seen thousens of rabbits escape with a well placed shot on them, and others escaping only wounded.
I tend to think, that if a rabbit that weigth less than 5 kilograms, can survive a shot of 22, and i have seen too many cases of that, what can it do to attackers who weigth 130 kilograms.
All those rabbit hunts where done; 95%, with 22 LR rifle, 3% with carabine pistols and pistols also on 22 LR, and a few 2% with shotgun (12 Gauge).
And I conclude by the experience of have hunted many year with the 22LR. That this caliber is week in general terms. I have seen thousens of rabbits escape with a well placed shot on them, and others escaping only wounded.
I tend to think, that if a rabbit that weigth less than 5 kilograms, can survive a shot of 22, and i have seen too many cases of that, what can it do to attackers who weigth 130 kilograms.
ChattanoogaPhil
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If there was no alternative but to use .22LR for carry I suppose I'd get something like an 8-shot LCR revolver. This eliminates issues of rimfire autoloader stoppages and mitigates ignition failures by only having to pull the trigger again to get to a new round. That said, I agree with susieqz that ignition failures are insignificant with quality rimfire ammo. Probably use CCI Stingers or some other hyper velocity round to try to get a bit more velocity out of the short barrel.
If I was going to make an argument for the use of .22LR, it would be that it's less expensive and less punishing to shoot than most popular centerfire handgun cartridges. All things being equal, that should translate to more practice and a better more accurate shooter.
All that said... 22LR for self defense? No thanks. Not unless I was physically handicapped and unable to cope with heavier recoil.
If I was going to make an argument for the use of .22LR, it would be that it's less expensive and less punishing to shoot than most popular centerfire handgun cartridges. All things being equal, that should translate to more practice and a better more accurate shooter.
All that said... 22LR for self defense? No thanks. Not unless I was physically handicapped and unable to cope with heavier recoil.
susieqz
Absent Comrade
the more practice thing is really true for some of us. i can shoot 120 rounds of 22lr with no degredation of accuracy in a morning.
but 24 38spc is as much as i can do.
but 24 38spc is as much as i can do.
Gulfecho
Member
I agree. In fact I recently read an article that .22s kill more people in the U.S. than all calibers combined!
kthom
Member
That's only if you consider a 9mm less-powerful than a .45
With modern bullet design and ammunition quality, I wouldn't. As much as that will enrage some.
I won't argue that a .45 cannot be or is not more "powerful" than a 9MM. After all, physics is still always physics. However, I will contend that the two calibers (and some others as well) are and can be equally "effective" when using comparable ammo and when they strike comparable targets. I know what Wise A means here, and I'm not trying to be disagreeable with what he has stated. I am very comfortable choosing a well made bullet in any caliber from .38 Special to .45 for my personal protection needs. But I think there are some that are not the best choice for the job. Who would say that a .44Mag will not get the job done? But most of us cannot use that caliber very effectively, at least not as effectively as something that has less recoil and shorter shot to shot recovery times. There is, after all, the effectiveness of the round or caliber being used AND the effectiveness of the shooter using that round that must be considered. BOTH need to be effective to get the job done right!
I was NOT a fan of the 9MM until advancements were made in the ammo that it shoots that are available to us today. I think most all calibers are more potentially effective with the ammo available today for them. Technology has improved things for all of them and for us. However, I still say that with any ammo, more depends on where the bullets strike and what they disrupt or destroy in the process and whether they have the potential to penetrate deeply enough to do their most effective job. My personal opinion is that penetration is the most important factor in bullet effectiveness. I like my personal protection bullet choices to expand, but if they do not penetrate well, they are not as effective as they need to be.
Any round or caliber that is capable of routinely performing well enough to do the job will do nicely. If a round or caliber is capable of performing well beyond that level of effectiveness that is necessary, then I say that "extra" performance does me no real good. On the other hand, I'd rather have a bit more than a little bit less than is optimum. But no damage is done by a loud noise beyond possibly soiling a clean pair of underwear! Only good hits count and have a chance to do the job right!!
So shoot what you can shoot most effectively and accurately. Shoot and carry what you personally can handle the best. Then pick the best performing bullet in that caliber you can find and use it! It takes some time and research to find it, and thankfully, we have many to choose among. Ain't it great?
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