The Ahmaud Arbery Shooting

[Rastoff]

I watched the YouTube video bulletslap referenced. When it ended, this one played next. Another interesting take on the situation.

Yes, this is interesting and very well done. It's the most complete analysis I've seen yet. Here it is embedded so you don't' have to leave this site:


As more evidence comes out, I haven't seen anything to change my opinion. Absolutely everything before the McMichaels started chasing Aubrey is irrelevant. They had no knowledge of any wrong doing. Neither were they accosted by Aubrey. Therefore, they had no justification or reason to chase him with guns drawn. The result of this lays fully in their laps.

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

I watched the YouTube video bulletslap referenced. When it ended, this one played next. Another interesting take on the situation.

YouTube

The YouTube video seemed to be credited to the New York Times, and was narrated by a male with what sounded like a British accent. I believe, and would like to hear otherwise from Georgia-knowledgeable individuals if I am wrong, that there was no reason whatsoever to suspect that the deceased was trespassing while exploring the unfinished house, nor were any of the other individuals who explored the house.

Doesn't sound like a murder, at least not first-degree, if that's how they name them in Georgia, but not far off. What right did they have to attempt to stop him? Having guns out, of course, was stupid, and predictably created the problem.

 

[Sgt911]

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLVyuf0Yx0Q&feature=emb_title[/ame]

 

[ColbyBruce]

By re-examine you mean overturn and have million dollar lawsuits flying through the court system. Re-examine would be the definition of reasonable doubt.

The video shows nothing that we didn't already know. If it is true that Georgia law allows for a citizen's arrest for suspicion of whatever he would have been charged with (and I am sure the DA would low-ball that charge in light of the events. I've seen armed robbery dropped to petit larceny in 2 seconds), the the stop would have been legal. Wise? Clearly not. But illegal? I haven't seen that yet. If the citizens arrest was not warranted, then charge them already and be done with this.

No, re-examine and re-try or overturn if necessary. This is probably not the first error McMichaels ever made. No one should be falsely convicted.

If I had been shot and killed every time I entered a home under construction I would of died several dozen times. My wife and I bought two of those homes we entered.

The video of Mr. Arberry being confronted by police is disturbing. He is stopped for being in a known drug area. He is irritated. The officers practically demand to search his car. His response was no different than mine would of been.

 

[max503]

Haven't heard much about this on the news lately. I wonder why?

 

[Steve912]

Haven't heard much about this on the news lately. I wonder why?

It's been on local news every day, since end of February.

 

[The_Truth]

I read today that Ahmaud was chased for over 4 minutes before the shooting. We were only given the 30 or so seconds that it took the shooting to happen.

 

[bulletslap]

This case is getting stranger, here is a story from the Atlanta Constitution Journal which is the SJW journal of record in Georgia in my opinion, so I take anything from them with a grain of salt. The gist of which is the elder McMillian and the local police department had some type of an arrangement for crime prevention in the area.


Police enlisted suspect's help months before Arbery shooting

 

[forrestinmathews]

I read today that Ahmaud was chased for over 4 minutes before the shooting. We were only given the 30 or so seconds that it took the shooting to happen.

Well you'd figure that if he liked jogging so much he could run for more than four minutes...

 

[Injunbro]

If they chased him for 4 minutes before confronting him w/ a shotgun there's all kinds of stalking charges they're guilty of... & no way to claim self defense. If the local cops were involved it's no wonder they didn't want charges filed... if that's proven in court there's a lot of heads on the chopping block!

 

[Rastoff]

I read today that Ahmaud was chased for over 4 minutes before the shooting. We were only given the 30 or so seconds that it took the shooting to happen.

See the video in post #273. There simply isn't video of the whole chase, but they did chase him for a while.

Yes, in my opinion, they hunted this guy down.

 

[max503]

It's been on local news every day, since end of February.

I just haven't seen it here in St. Louis - but I don't watch a lot of TV, either. But it makes sense. I have friends in Chicago that don't know who Michael Brown was.

 

[Drm50]

This case is political and is going to be used like Mike Brown case. It makes no difference the actual facts of either case. It's strictly for the optics. The media has already made choir boy out of victim. He wasn't, but didn't deserve shot and killed over basically trivial accusations.

 

[686-380]

I need the facts, in their ENTIRETY, to make a comprehensive assessment. I am uncertain we will ever get them.

No, Mr. Aubrey was probably not a saint, who is? He's dead and there's nothing anyone can do to help him.

The focus turns to the accused. While I'm just as certain they're not saints either, we have the opportunity to examine their motivations and actions to arrive at a verdict.

It won't serve anybody, well except the media, to unfairly portray the accused as brutish, bigoted thugs...unless that's exactly what they are.

Why weren't any other trespassers accosted?

 

[ColbyBruce]

I don't care if Arberry entered that house with Amelia Earhart thrown over his right shoulder and the Lindbergh baby tucked under his left arm like a football; he did nothing to affront the McMichaels family; that incident should not of cost him his life. The McMichaels over-stepped when they took up arms and left the house to pursue Arberry.

 

[flagman1776]

This case is getting stranger, here is a story from the Atlanta Constitution Journal which is the SJW journal of record in Georgia in my opinion, so I take anything from them with a grain of salt. The gist of which is the elder McMillian and the local police department had some type of an arrangement for crime prevention in the area.

Police enlisted suspect's help months before Arbery shooting

I also think there's more to this story from the local Police and the homeowner. There's more we aren't being told.

 

[bulletslap]

My opinion is skewed now toward a dumb *** mid-level thug and and dumb *** former LEO (who doesn't seem to know he is former) and dumb *** son colliding in a hazy situation under Georgia Law; being reported by a biased media.

It isn't murder based upon what is currently being reported.

It needs to be tried fairly under Georgia law, and who knows what the biased media is misreporting or covering up.

 

[Rastoff]

I need the facts, in their ENTIRETY, to make a comprehensive assessment. I am uncertain we will ever get them.

What other facts do you need? What could we possibly be missing?

Let's speculate on some possibilities shall we....

What if Aubrey had robbed a convenient store an hour prior to this shooting? What if, in the process of that robbery he killed the clerk and a 5 year old kid? That would make him a monster and deserving of the death penalty. Even so, all of that would still be irrelevant to the situation at hand. Why? Because the McMichaels had no knowledge of it.

The McMichaels, and the guy who shot the video, chased a man who they THOUGHT looked like a guy who MIGHT have committed a crime. Using firearms they demanded that he follow their commands. When he didn't, they were caught unprepared and shot a guy all because they thought he MIGHT be a bad guy.

So, I ask again, what fact could we possibly be missing that would change the outcome here and make them not murdering vigilantes?

 

[ColbyBruce]

" It isn't murder based upon what is currently being reported."

Huh? The McMichaels armed themselves and left their home in a truck to pursue a man on foot over a matter that did not concern them at all, period. Arbery was chased for four minutes, had three shots fired at him, and was murdered. Arberry was not guilty of breaking and entering nor theft.

 

[bulletslap]

2010 Georgia Code
TITLE 17 - CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
CHAPTER 4 - ARREST OF PERSONS
ARTICLE 4 - ARREST BY PRIVATE PERSONS
§ 17-4-60 - Grounds for arrest
O.C.G.A. 17-4-60 (2010)
17-4-60. Grounds for arrest


A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge. If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion.

The above may apply in the Arbery shooting, or may not, the Court will decide.

 

[bulletslap]

2017 Georgia Code
Title 16 - Crimes and Offenses
Chapter 5 - Crimes Against the Person
Article 1 - Homicide
§ 16-5-1. Murder; malice murder; felony murder; murder in the second degree
Universal Citation: GA Code § 16-5-1 (2017)
(a) A person commits the offense of murder when he unlawfully and with malice aforethought, either express or implied, causes the death of another human being.
(b) Express malice is that deliberate intention unlawfully to take the life of another human being which is manifested by external circumstances capable of proof. Malice shall be implied where no considerable provocation appears and where all the circumstances of the killing show an abandoned and malignant heart.
(c) A person commits the offense of murder when, in the commission of a felony, he or she causes the death of another human being irrespective of malice.
(d) A person commits the offense of murder in the second degree when, in the commission of cruelty to children in the second degree, he or she causes the death of another human being irrespective of malice.

Based upon the reports I have the above doesn't apply, the Courts may have a different opinion.

 

[gfors]

Regardless of Georgia's laws, there was no moral justification, for taking this man's life.

 

[LCC]

Footage from the homemowner of the 'trespassed' house show's white couples walking in and out of the house, kids coming arriving on bikes and entering the house in a group, all technically tresspassers.

From the homeowner's lawyer "Even if theft or damage had occurred, however, the Englishes would never have wanted a vigilante response. The Englishes did not know the McMichaels. The Englishes never enlisted the McMichaels to do what they did and do not want to be part of any effort to justify the McMichaels' actions."

The murder now going to a Grand Jury with the prosecutor reccomending premeditated first degree murder charges, likely the best the shooters can hope for at trial will be a plea deal of manslaughter.

 

[The_Truth]

Every argument for the exoneration of the suspects in this case seems predicated upon proving Ahmaud's intent (according to GA statute) when he entered the home, which given the evidence or lack thereof, seems to be non existent.

If they could prove Ahmaud intended to commit a felony or burglary, they might have a shot at beating the rap, no pun intended. Sadly, I don't see any evidence to back up the assertion.

 

[bulletslap]

Regardless of Georgia's laws, there was no moral justification, for taking this man's life.

Moral and Lawful very often diverge, and always have unfortunately.

If Arbery had not of tresspassed, had called the police, surrendered, or not grabbed for the shotgun odds are great he would be alive today. If the Bubba's had of stayed out of they would be drinking beer and eating peanuts sitting on the couch. Too bad each person involved made a series of bad choices.

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

No trespass.

 

[bulletslap]

Are you saying Arbery didn't trespass ? If so what is that based on ?

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

Are you saying Arbery didn't trespass ? If so what is that based on ?

Not posted. Not asked to leave. No breaking and entering. Get in touch with a Georgia lawyer and find out whether I'm right.

I listened to our friend Colion Noir read to me from the law. It seemed pretty clear to me, but if you have someone who knows Georgia law better, have at it.

 

[Rastoff]

Are you saying Arbery didn't trespass ? If so what is that based on ?

Why do people keep talking about this supposed trespass? Which, but the way, wasn't a trespass.

Because the McMichaels had no knowledge of whether or not Aubrey was in that house, it has NO BEARING on their actions!

 

[snuffy51]

Good case for MYOB>