The Air Force Has Completed its Inspection of their SIG M18 Service Pistols

[65-2x2]

What was it that Sonny an Cher sang, "And the beat goes on."

 

[Rocketmedic40]

I can say with 100% certainty that my M9 was fully locked and loaded, hammer decocked, safety off when we rolled outside the wire in Iraq.

The M9 has zero chance of going off without the trigger being pulled, and because Beretta designed it for soldiers, that long, heavy double action pull is a fantastic safety. It's almost like the designers realized the requirements of a service pistol and built a fantastic weapon to meet those needs.

 

[roysha]

According to COWBOY STATE DAILY, "The section of the Air Force that oversees the military branch's bases is un-grounding the Sig Sauer M18 handgun after pausing its use for a month over the July 20 shooting death of a Wyoming-based airman."

That should light up all the glockers and SIG haters.

 

[hardluk1]

Always interesting to read factual information presented by an individual with so much insider information. And most of us just want factual information and not biased opinions.

By the way I believe it should be "due to" not "do to"

I replied enough times on the issues with sig and the p320 's I had . If you really need to read my first hand experience its in there forums and this forum too m!

 

[WR Moore]

BB57: "In that regard, any flaws in the Sig P320 pose no risk with an empty chamber. If any incidents do happen the military can usually blame that on the person with the pistol.

That's far better for avoiding accountability and managing careers than admitting the procurement process, the officers involved, and the pistol they selected were flawed."

Unfortunately true. BTW, thanks, should have recalled mean rounds between stoppages. When we went to semis, someone wanted us to do the empty chamber thing. I checked with base security at Quantico and used their example to justify loaded chambers.

 

[jeep200]

If your a believer I suggest appendix carry only

 

[Majeskty]

Just want my Sig P320 to be a safe pistol!!

Did anyone see a report on how the Air Force Airman was actually shot, since not from an uncommanded discharge?

 

[Equus]

Just want my Sig P320 to be a safe pistol!!

Did anyone see a report on how the Air Force Airman was actually shot, since not from an uncommanded discharge?

Nothing beyond the follow up story of the alleged arrest, as vague as that was.

I think everyone wants the 320 to be made safe.

 

[us69mc]

I noticed early on that a Manual Safety had to be added the Pistol. Training problems with personnel who had NO experience with Firearms due to the Anti Gun rhetoric and restrictive laws in many places.






States

 

[gunbarrel]

Consider too that the army does not want to have to buy another mountain of replacement handguns like a gluck along with new holsters . What if a few of the troops are out of commission do to handgun issues plus its embarrassing for both the army and for Sig since they are the supplier of new over priced long guns ! I had my run of lack of QC with early sig p320's so no more sig's in my house .

Now feel free to run over to a siggly forum to pat each others backs .

Ï

 

[rockquarry]

Almost comical but regrettably sad... some can't overcome the need to make something difficult, complicated, or awkward to state using real and practical words. Who would use the term "uncommanded discharge"? Someone completely eaten up by tactical compulsive behavior? Chairman of a gunfighting school?

 

[Oldsalt66]

Nothing beyond the follow up story of the alleged arrest, as vague as that was.

I think everyone wants the 320 to be made safe.

LOL "Alleged arrest" ?

What intellectually dishonest baloney language; a suspect has been actually arrested and officially "accused of making a false official statement, obstruction of justice and involuntary manslaughter."

Air Force makes arrest in airman’s shooting death involving M18 pistol

The arrested airman is accused of multiple crimes, including involuntary manslaughter, the Air Force said.

www.airforcetimes.com

Arrest made in fatal shooting of airman that led Air Force command to stop using M18 pistols

An airman was charged with making false statements, obstructing justice and involuntary manslaughter in the shooting death of a fellow airman at F.E. Warren Air Force Base.

www.stripes.com

The original narrative that a holstered pistol spontaneously discharged while sitting unmolested on a table resulting in the unfortunate death of Airman Brayden Lovan has revealed itself to be false.

 

[Equus]

LOL "Alleged arrest" ?

What intellectually dishonest baloney language; a suspect has been actually arrested and officially accused of making a false official statement, obstruction of justice and involuntary manslaughter."

Air Force makes arrest in airman’s shooting death involving M18 pistol

The arrested airman is accused of multiple crimes, including involuntary manslaughter, the Air Force said.

www.airforcetimes.com

Arrest made in fatal shooting of airman that led Air Force command to stop using M18 pistols

An airman was charged with making false statements, obstructing justice and involuntary manslaughter in the shooting death of a fellow airman at F.E. Warren Air Force Base.

www.stripes.com

The original narrative that a holstered pistol spontaneously discharged while sitting unmolested on a table resulting in the unfortunate death of Airman Brayden Lovan has revealed itself to be false.

Yeah alleged. It seems you have a massive problem. You believe anything you are told. Until details other than an unnamed service member supposedly being arrested on 3 charges with no other details. Color me a sceptic. I mean the .mil only has a proven honesty problem along with all other .gov organizations.

 

[Oldsalt66]

Yeah alleged. It seems you have a massive problem. You believe anything you are told. Until details other than an unnamed service member supposedly being arrested on 3 charges with no other details. Color me a sceptic. I mean the .mil only has a proven honesty problem along with all other .gov organizations.

An arrest has been, in fact, made in the shooting of Airman Brayden Lovan........YAWN.

The Air Force has, in fact, issued its official findings regarding the M18 pistols.....YAWN

But your own unsubstantiated and biased personal opinions which are supported solely by your own unsubstantiated and biased personal opinions.......BREAKING NEWS !!!!!!!

 

[Doug M.]

There ia side issue of which I have recently become aware that sure makes for some interesting thoughts. Apparently Glock is holding back their models designed around the new Aimpoint RDS (COA, I think they call them) from the civilian market for at least two years due to really increased demand from LE and military.
People a lot more knowledgable than me have done some serious deep dive looks at the P320 (not the various YouTube "experts" doing experiments of dubious validity) and concluded that there is in fact fire and a lot of it under the smoke. Amongother things, there is a strong consensus that any person (LE or mil) responsible for procurement/issue of sidearms who allows the P320 is guilty of serious misconduct and should be fired for cause immediately. In LE, it is almost certainly a serious Brady/Giglio problem due to clear incompetence.
Side issue also of importance: the various P365 versions have a different design and are not showing the problems. Hmm. As for "uncommanded discharge", the phrase is used to distinguish between an ND (human error) and an AD, because the firearm is going off by itself for no reason related to operator conduct.
BTW: Seals using other platforms is a non-issue. SOCOM is not restricted as to what they carry by the usual military issue practices.

 

[Onomea]

... As for "uncommanded discharge", the phrase is used to distinguish between an ND (human error) and an AD, because the firearm is going off by itself for no reason related to operator conduct....

Not quite, in my opinion.

I think the use of ND means the speaker believes that due to negligence on the part of the operator, the gun discharged unintentionally. It is usually used to make the point that simply calling it an "accident," without assigning responsibility to the operator, is improperly absolving the operator for his role in the unintentional discharge.

Leaving aside whether or not it is possible for a P320 to fire without someone or something pulling the trigger, the phrase "uncommanded discharge" is meant to convey the concept that the gun fired without anyone, or anything, pulling the trigger.

That's how I understand the distinctions in meaning anyway.

 

[rockquarry]

Not quite, in my opinion.

I think the use of ND means the speaker believes that due to negligence on the part of the operator, the gun discharged unintentionally. It is usually used to make the point that simply calling it an "accident," without assigning responsibility to the operator, is improperly absolving the operator for his role in the unintentional discharge.

Leaving aside whether or not it is possible for a P320 to fire without someone or something pulling the trigger, the phrase "uncommanded discharge" is meant to convey the concept that the gun fired without anyone, or anything, pulling the trigger.

That's how I understand the distinctions in meaning anyway.

Ambiguous terminology and impossible to decipher based on the two words alone.

 

[erikpolcrack]

There is a new voluntary upgrade program being quietly pushed by Sig. It covers not only the trigger changed because of the dropping/AD problem, but also modifications to the slide and disconnector assemblies. The changes were already added to 320s/M17s/M18s produced after a certain point. Those needing the update can send their pistols back for the free upgrade. You can put in your SN at their site and find out. For reference, my M17, SN M17A002591 has both mods. The site gives you do-it-yourself inspection diagrams to check for yourself. The problem is, they don't tell you whether your OK pistol was made that way or has just already been sent in and modified. I mention this because I have had my M17 for a couple of years but bought it secondhand, so I don't know if mine was made OK or was sent in by the previous owner.

 

[Rocketmedic40]

Can you imagine the investigation and some Generals having to answer this question, "so exactly how did a pistol that couldn't go 200 MRBS with standard Nato ammo even make it to down select?"

Yeah big embarrassment. $1Billion spent and the replacement isn't 1/4 as good as the retired handgun. I am glad my son is out now and no longer has to worry about being given a substandard Sig product.

If I recall correctly, one or more of the generals who presided over the modular hand system trials retired in the late teens and became a board member of some high-end New Hampshire based firearms company…

 

[Glenn R. McMannly]

Always interesting to read factual information presented by an individual with so much insider information. And most of us just want factual information and not biased opinions.

By the way I believe it should be "due to" not "do to"

I due think it is do time to bring up this error.