When we travel in our motorhome, I routinely load .38 special +Ps instead of .357 magnums for this reason. It's still not likely that the walls of our motorhome would stop a .38 special +p, either with or without it going an intruder. But at least this shows some consideration to the other people in the campgrounds we frequent.
The Ammo with the best stopping power may not be the best for home defense.
- Thread starter sirrduke2010
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raven818
Member
Please excuse me if you feel the need, but I just don't get it. You are experiencing a HOME INVASION.???
Is the message some of you are trying to convey amount to....hey, I know it's my wife, kids, grand-kids and other loved ones, but I have to consider someone else above and beyond them, because they MIGHT get hurt while I'm defending those I love?
These responses have to be from folks who enjoy the devils advocate role. If that's not the case, then another member of the family needs to be put in charge of the home defense forces.
Is the message some of you are trying to convey amount to....hey, I know it's my wife, kids, grand-kids and other loved ones, but I have to consider someone else above and beyond them, because they MIGHT get hurt while I'm defending those I love?
These responses have to be from folks who enjoy the devils advocate role. If that's not the case, then another member of the family needs to be put in charge of the home defense forces.
I think you missed the point? If your own bullet goes through the wall and kills your own loved ones, I think you are going to have a pretty bad day....
You may be assuming that you can gather all your loved ones and baracade them into the master bedroom, where all you will need to do is defend one door opening by hosing it down with a hail of bullets, so who cares what's down the hall and across the street? That is a pretty unrealistic scenario! Most likely you will be so surprised that you won't have time to think, much less retrieve a gun that is not already on your person (I always have a Centennial in my pocket). And, there is a very good probability things will end up going hand-to-hand, so just how are your fighting skills? Worked out lately? You packing a knife backup too? Is the rest of your family prepared to defend themselves, and/or help you defend them? The variables are unknown, and endless.....
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raven818
Member
Sell, give away all your weapons. Your going to give way too much thought about what you should do, and lose in the long run.
A lose-lose situation.
Give the bad guy(s) whatever they want, and pray they don't kill anybody because you've seen their faces. And with some who have been violated... there are worse fates than death.
If I were to harm a loved one in the process, at minimum I would know inside, I did the best I could. If I did nothing, and the bad guy(s) did as they pleased before they left, using it on myself would be an option.
I will stick with what I said about this in an earlier post....train..train..train..and have a plan, practice it. My wife and I do, and have for years. No, we do not live in fear, we live with reality.
Jacksonville was the murder capital of Florida for many years, that changed just last year. But, the way this year has gone, we'll probably have that unwanted title again.
Nobody wants to harm any family member...put a plan together and make sure every person in the home knows what their part is...
Read This Jacksonville no longer the 'murder capital' of Florida
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What are you shooting? A slingshot?
I have a couple of refrigerators and freezers, along with old microwaves, stoves, studs, TV's, all kinds of junk down in my pit on the farm. You are welcome to come down and see your rounds go right through a fridge. Little lead .22's go right through.
ContinentalOp
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I am concerned with the potential for overpenetration through the walls of my apartment.
But I am more concerned with stopping a violent attacker who is in my home and trying to hurt or kill me.
I will use self-defense ammo that I am confident is effective and adjust my tactics accordingly. While I can minimize the risk, I cannot eliminate it completely.
The same issues are present when you are out and about, only there are likely no walls separating you from bystanders.
But I am more concerned with stopping a violent attacker who is in my home and trying to hurt or kill me.
I will use self-defense ammo that I am confident is effective and adjust my tactics accordingly. While I can minimize the risk, I cannot eliminate it completely.
The same issues are present when you are out and about, only there are likely no walls separating you from bystanders.
twomoons
Member
its simple for me ,and this might sound radical.i have a state trooper next door to me we have yalked about home invasions.
he trains troopers and le squads.the guy knows his stuff.
i told him,in a home invasion.i am grabbing my gun, light up the perp,and shooting,my wife and daughter have been told what to do,and they know what i will be doing if we have home burglary going on.
the le guy aagreed.what is this nice guy stuff.these are criminals,probably high on meth,and need lots of lead pumped into them.end of story.i hope my dog is not in the way,i have tried to explain to her , where she should go..she has already failed to sound mean enough if the perp is in the house.but, i have a yellow lab who hates water,and gun shots,so my hunting dog/gaurd dog is just another child in our home.anyway,the le guy next door said aim at the perp and keep shooting.wife and kids keep dialing 911,cuz dads wild side has come out.i just about got killed in a robbery in california.the guy broke my neck in 4 places.crippled me for life.so i ahve no mercy on a perpnone asked.none given.take no prisoners
he trains troopers and le squads.the guy knows his stuff.
i told him,in a home invasion.i am grabbing my gun, light up the perp,and shooting,my wife and daughter have been told what to do,and they know what i will be doing if we have home burglary going on.
the le guy aagreed.what is this nice guy stuff.these are criminals,probably high on meth,and need lots of lead pumped into them.end of story.i hope my dog is not in the way,i have tried to explain to her , where she should go..she has already failed to sound mean enough if the perp is in the house.but, i have a yellow lab who hates water,and gun shots,so my hunting dog/gaurd dog is just another child in our home.anyway,the le guy next door said aim at the perp and keep shooting.wife and kids keep dialing 911,cuz dads wild side has come out.i just about got killed in a robbery in california.the guy broke my neck in 4 places.crippled me for life.so i ahve no mercy on a perpnone asked.none given.take no prisoners
In combat, the first thing to fail is the "plan"! Sure, good to have a plan...but also train for what happens when the plan inevitably fails! And...no need to kill the neighbors with friendly fire in the process!
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Chili Vega
US Veteran, Absent Comrade
I like this post the best. If this isn't accomplished nothing else will matter.
Aubie
Member
Wow, really love all the make believe scenarios. Lots to think about. Do we really know what is going to happen? No, so we'll just make the best of it, aim at the invader, stop the threat and then deal with the aftermath. Even if your using a 12ga. with bird shot bullets are going to fly. Bird shot will go through 2 sheets of drywall. Try to remember where you are, where the intruder is and only fire when you have a clear shot.
For home defense I'm using a 12ga. semi auto shotgun with a 20" barrel and a full choke. I'm using left over 1960's 2 3/4 #6 Remington-Peters high brass shot which is todays 3" mag. duck loads. They are just as good as the day they were bought. I have cases of them. It patterns 12" at 20' and spreads from there so whoever is in front is gonna get hot lead somewhere. Don't have to worry about neighbors as I only have one on my bedroom side and even if I shoot through a window on that side it won't enter his home 30' away as it's the solid brick side of his home, no windows or doors. I live at the end of the street.
My back up is several other 12 gages just like the one in my hand hid in other rooms if I have to move. Shot gun is best for close work IMO. I know some of you will say bird shot won't kill but I don't think you want me to shoot you with it. 12" of pellets going in 4-6" will make a mess of whatever it hits at 20-25 feet. If the BG is closer, well lets just say, I will be able to see though him.
For home defense I'm using a 12ga. semi auto shotgun with a 20" barrel and a full choke. I'm using left over 1960's 2 3/4 #6 Remington-Peters high brass shot which is todays 3" mag. duck loads. They are just as good as the day they were bought. I have cases of them. It patterns 12" at 20' and spreads from there so whoever is in front is gonna get hot lead somewhere. Don't have to worry about neighbors as I only have one on my bedroom side and even if I shoot through a window on that side it won't enter his home 30' away as it's the solid brick side of his home, no windows or doors. I live at the end of the street.
My back up is several other 12 gages just like the one in my hand hid in other rooms if I have to move. Shot gun is best for close work IMO. I know some of you will say bird shot won't kill but I don't think you want me to shoot you with it. 12" of pellets going in 4-6" will make a mess of whatever it hits at 20-25 feet. If the BG is closer, well lets just say, I will be able to see though him.
No sense in re inventing the wheel. This subject has been beat to death:
The Box O' Truth - Ammo Penetration Testing
The Box O' Truth - Ammo Penetration Testing
Whether in your home or on the street, there is always the chance for a missed shot. It comes with the responsibilty on using a firearm for self defense.
It is our responsibility to minimize the "misses". Training, practice, and preparation will help greatly.
Having a good plan at home will help too.
From my front door there is a hallway to the bedrooms. On the other side of the hallway is a fireplace. Any bad guys that come down the hallway get blasted.
The chances that they are there to do us harm are greater than me missing completely.
It is our responsibility to minimize the "misses". Training, practice, and preparation will help greatly.
Having a good plan at home will help too.
From my front door there is a hallway to the bedrooms. On the other side of the hallway is a fireplace. Any bad guys that come down the hallway get blasted.
The chances that they are there to do us harm are greater than me missing completely.
No, but I do believe the wall, another wall, the fridge and another wall should take care of it. Or at least slow the by-then fragmented hollow point down a bit.
Or I could take the tact of a few in this thread (not saying it's you) and say: "Oh, the Hell with it. There's bound to be some collateral damage and I have no responsibility to try to minimize it. Or even think about a plan. I'll just get my John Wayne on and spray and pray.
So you have a sweet spot in your home where you like to shoot people? LMAO.
When the time comes to defend yourself and there's a perp moving and running through your bedroom or grabbing your loved ones, you won't have time or the mental capacity to consider shooting lanes and verify back drops. You will have a split second to react and hopefully you do REACT and your brain isn't so muddled with penetration velocities and wall dimensions that cause you to freeze for an instant. That brief pause as you determine if the shot will be safe and proper could end with you feeling cold steel enter your chest cavity.
When the time comes to defend yourself and there's a perp moving and running through your bedroom or grabbing your loved ones, you won't have time or the mental capacity to consider shooting lanes and verify back drops. You will have a split second to react and hopefully you do REACT and your brain isn't so muddled with penetration velocities and wall dimensions that cause you to freeze for an instant. That brief pause as you determine if the shot will be safe and proper could end with you feeling cold steel enter your chest cavity.
No but the BG is going to be coming through a door. Knowing and accounting for what's on the other side will minimize "collateral damage" if that is the point of contact. I cannot guarantee anything but am not too lazy to move a bookcase or too ignorant to make some mental preparations.
raven818
Member
Bringing a knife to a gun fight?
Well yeah, the guy busting in may be armed with a knife, possibly one of the homeowner's knives... And if you are planning to shoot him at the door but he gets past the door before you can shoot... Then what? Do you shoot even when behind him is your neighbor's house? Are they home? Are they in that room? Do you think about it as the BG comes at you or do you just shoot!
Well, I am shooting.
I think SOMEONE is way over thinking things a bit.
KEEP IT SIMPLE!!
Have a plan. A practiced, well thought out plan WILL help. No plan at all will invite unneccessary waste of valuable time.
Do some of you think that the bad guy is just suddenly going to burst through your door? If so, you need a lesson in home security. Do what's neccessary to slow the bad guys down enough to enact your PLAN.
If they do get in, let them come to you and your kill zone.
When discussing home security with my customers I ask them this, "If I kick in your door at 2AM, how far will I make it into your home while your still groggy and wondering what just happened?".
The answer is, at least half way. If I get in half way, you stand a very good chance of loosing.
Home defense isn't simply what you carry and what ammo you use. Home defense is how well you have planned and prepared.
Home defense isn't just about guns. Home defense is layered. Lighting, GOOD deadbolts, an alarm system, and firearms in that order will enable you enough time to defend yourself.
If you have not considered the above, you like so many other victims have not taken the matter seriously.
KEEP IT SIMPLE!!
Have a plan. A practiced, well thought out plan WILL help. No plan at all will invite unneccessary waste of valuable time.
Do some of you think that the bad guy is just suddenly going to burst through your door? If so, you need a lesson in home security. Do what's neccessary to slow the bad guys down enough to enact your PLAN.
If they do get in, let them come to you and your kill zone.
When discussing home security with my customers I ask them this, "If I kick in your door at 2AM, how far will I make it into your home while your still groggy and wondering what just happened?".
The answer is, at least half way. If I get in half way, you stand a very good chance of loosing.
Home defense isn't simply what you carry and what ammo you use. Home defense is how well you have planned and prepared.
Home defense isn't just about guns. Home defense is layered. Lighting, GOOD deadbolts, an alarm system, and firearms in that order will enable you enough time to defend yourself.
If you have not considered the above, you like so many other victims have not taken the matter seriously.
armsmaster270
US Veteran
The main point is shoot the perp & don't miss, chances are if you are using good hollowpoints they will stay in the body or after going through the body be stopped by the wall.
If not missing is a requirement we all better keep our guns put up.
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