Very Cool Gun!!! Do you know its history?
The best 1917 (I'll ever own), maybe ever?
- Thread starter Modified
- Start date
bamabiker
Member
That is cool. Never seen a front sight like that. Almost looks like part of another barrel slipped over the 1917 barrel.
Any background info? Where did you find this gem?
Any background info? Where did you find this gem?
OP
Modified
Member
Hi
Your gun is a great example of a modified revolver, but great 1917's are still out there.
...
All most forgot about this one.
1917 in a shipment of two factory nickel 1917 commerical shipped to Ohio in 1927. there are less than 5 documented
factory nickel 1917's.
I fully admit my title to this thread was made in haste. As soon as I really started thinking about it I remembered your collection. A collection so amazing you forget you own an original nickel 1917.
I'm still pretty new to S&W collecting, it was right around 2012 that I discovered S&Ws, and only 2008 that a friend of mine explained to me that I could "Just go buy a gun". So a collection like yours is some sort of mythical, unachievable thing that doesn't even enter my thought processes. It's somewhere in that part of my brain that partitions off dreams of marrying a supermodel or winning the lottery. I'm only starting to come to terms with the idea that I could someday own such things. Sorry if that leaks out a bit in my posting.
Only a touch. I understand it recently came from a S&W collector who passed on. I know nothing more then that and the fact that King is stamped on front shroud/sight assembly, and the rear sight is clearly from the King catalog.
Would you believe I didn't? It just came to me. There's a bit of a story here, one that may explain a bit of my excitement about this gun.
So I purchased 3 other guns from one heck of a nice guy. I had purchased one from him previously and we had spoken at length about what it is I like about fine old Smith & Wessons. Which, as you guys have probably picked up on, is guns that have been modified in some neat way, or are unusual, interesting beyond just being a fine example of guns straight from the factory. Naturally I've grown to be something of a King and Roper fanatic because of this. These guns and accessories please me in ways that a new in the box gun just doesn't, as much as I appreciate factory original guns I still have this voice in the back of my head saying; "Those guns aren't for the likes of you".
In any case, we settled on my purchase of the following guns. I plan on figuring out who exactly it was who made the modifications to the M&Ps, which are really nice improvements to the sights. The King M&P is something I believe one of the members here may recognize, as the letter that came with it is addressed to him. More on where the 1917 came from after some pictures:
And the king gun, which I must say is so dang neat to me on many different levels. I've added the letter here too:
The man who sold these to me let me know they were on the way, and that there was a surprise in the package. I thought; "must be a neat old catalog or something".
I opened the guns up in the correct order, you could call it luck, or maybe God was smiling on the kind efforts of the seller, because I unwrapped and was thrilled with the 2 "fixed sight targets" first. Then that King M&P (which is an astonishingly pretty little gun in person).
Then the 4th gun, which was greatly confusing to me because I only paid for 3 guns. What could this 4th gun be? That 1917.
I'll tell you what. You remember as a kid unwrapping a Christmas gift and finding something that you both wanted more then anything in the world, but never expected to get? That year your dad bought you the BB gun with your mother scowling at him as you unwrapped it?
It was the first time since I was a kid I had felt such a thing. He knew exactly how I would react to this gun. Once my confusion cleared all I could think of was how much I loved it, and how much I hoped it wasn't some sort of mistake, because if it was I didn't think I could send it back.
We spoke yesterday and we came to terms on the gun quite easily. Very fair price, and one I am more then happy to pay for such a delightful piece of S&W and King shooting iron.
Memphis
Member
What an awesome 1917. Is it just me or did anyone else not notice that this revolver has a RM hammer on it? I never cease to be amazed at all the cool guns that ooze out of the woodwork.
Roger
Roger
WOW..those are probably the some of the best looking and unique Smiths that I have seen. Why don't I find anything like that on this side of the country!
The King night sight sleeve is amazing. Does it appear to slide on over the muzzle? Can you post a head on picture?
Don't rub the blue off! BTW the ivory is amazing.
The King night sight sleeve is amazing. Does it appear to slide on over the muzzle? Can you post a head on picture?
Don't rub the blue off! BTW the ivory is amazing.
How do come up with these gems? Is there some little-known source for masterpieces that only you is aware of? You have some of the most beautiful guns I've ever seen, and this one takes the cake! Wow!
OP
Modified
Member
Actually the grooved hammers came on the early 1917s in addition to the Registered Magnums.
Here's one on my converted target:
and my, well, whatever it is.
A lot of the stuff I like is the modified guns, much of which came out of California. King was in San Francisco, and there were all sorts of fine gunsmiths in the Bay Area and LA. There certainly do seem to be more of these neat guns on this coast.
All that said, these guns did come to me from your side of the country. The internet is really how I've gotten the bulk of my neat guns.
I'll do so as soon as I can. The battery on my camera is charging at the moment.
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ordnanceguy
Member
What a great bunch of Smiths. The King converted M+P that lettered to the Department of the Interior caught my eye as it qualifies as a pre-Victory. The letter from Roy that you posted is great but I thought you might want to also know this additional info. Based upon information in the Victory Model Database your revolver 865935 shipped to the Department of the Interior for use at the famous Bonneville Dam run by the Bonneville Power Administration. You could easily call it your "dam gun" and not get anyone's feather's ruffled!
Thank you all for sharing your unique guns................
OP
Modified
Member
Ok, now that's dang cool!
I always learn so much posting on this forum. I would have never thought to have checked this gun against a Victory Database.
Here's some shots of the end of the barrel as promised, pardon the lint.
Memphis
Member
Very nice guns being shown here.
SixgunStrumpet, the early grooved hammers that came out on the 1917 were not the same as the grooved RM hammers. The RM hammer had the patent info on the back and also the checkering on top was not the same. The Registered Magnum hammers had a lot more checkering over almost all of the top whereas the 1917 had minimal checkering. I do believe the grooves on the side were the same though. I love both versions.
Roger
SixgunStrumpet, the early grooved hammers that came out on the 1917 were not the same as the grooved RM hammers. The RM hammer had the patent info on the back and also the checkering on top was not the same. The Registered Magnum hammers had a lot more checkering over almost all of the top whereas the 1917 had minimal checkering. I do believe the grooves on the side were the same though. I love both versions.
Roger
OP
Modified
Member
Here you are teaching me something again. I didn't realize that was the case. Partly because I had this laying around:
So because it has the patent info this is a (very sadly cut) RM hammer?
I picked it up a while back because it was cheap with some sort of vague idea titled "Fitz 1917" bouncing around in the back of my head.
05CarbonDRZ
Member
The slip on front sight on the 1917 was more than likely Silver Soldered in place after it was fit to the Barrel.
I think Memphis is right, as that extra hammer you have laying around is one of the grooved RM hammers that has unfortunately been cut. I'm guessing it's still quite valuable and anybody with a shooter Magnum would be happy to have that hammer! Recent posts showed a non-cut grooved RM hammer that sold for approx $1,000.
*I also just realized this is the same hammer on your 1917, that is not an original 1917 concentric grooved hammer. That is a later 1917 that would not have a grooved hammer nor that much checkering...So needless to say you have two grooved and checkered prewar hammers!
I love the craftsmanship of prewar custom guns built simply for shooting, the quality and innovation is often amazing and kind of incomprehensible today. You have acquired some awesome revolvers. I love custom 45s
*I also just realized this is the same hammer on your 1917, that is not an original 1917 concentric grooved hammer. That is a later 1917 that would not have a grooved hammer nor that much checkering...So needless to say you have two grooved and checkered prewar hammers!
I love the craftsmanship of prewar custom guns built simply for shooting, the quality and innovation is often amazing and kind of incomprehensible today. You have acquired some awesome revolvers. I love custom 45s
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OP
Modified
Member
Here's one on my converted target:
Ok guys, now you have really confused me. This gun in the picture above is a 4 digit 1917. It also has the same Reg text on the back of the hammer:
It is the gun on top.
So I fished around and dug out another grooved hammer 1917 I have (because basically every 1917 I have has a grooved hammer..somehow, I don't know how that happened)
Found this also on 4 digit 1917:
And checking it, this gun does not have the Reg:
So all told I have 4 grooved hammer 1917s, 2 with the patent, 2 without, and this extra hammer which was sold as a 1917 to me that clearly has the patent on it. I'm pretty confused at the moment.
Memphis
Member
SixgunStrumpet, you have what we call a positive-negative. In other words a good problem to have. I'll simplify it. Any one of you hammers that has the patent info on the back with a lot of checkering on top and the grooves, it's a Registered Magnum Hammer. One of those sold not too long ago for 6 C notes. Obviously your cut one is diminished in value. The other ones with no patent info and regular checkering with grooves is the early 1917 versions. All in all you have an awesome group of guns with hard to find hammers.
Roger
Roger
OP
Modified
Member
Thanks for the clarification Roger.
Pardon me if I am having a hard time believing my good fortune. It all seems a little unreal that I would accidently end up with 4 registered magnum hammers, on 3 guns, and only one of them a registered magnum.
Also, 6 notes? I thought this one went for more then that? Hammer for Registered Magnum : Revolvers at GunBroker.com
This is the same hammer is it not?
Edit:
Busted them out to compare, now I totally get what you mean by less checkering:
RM Hammer:
1917 Grooved Hammer:
Edit: Thanks again for the education guys. I didn't expect to learn so much from this.
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Sixgun,
Also notice that besides the additional checkering on the RM hammers, it is not diamond cut checkering, it's square cut checkering. Why? Probably to match the sq cut checkering on the top strap IMO.
Al RM hammers standard hammers but only RM HBHs have the concentric grooves on the side, but both always have the square cut checkering.
And one more thing, the RM hammer of yours with the spur removed has been re-checkered in the diamond cut pattern and extended over the firing pin slot so it can still be grasped and cocked for single action shooting.
It also had to have started life as a humpback hammer to be flat on top without the normal dip:
Standard RM hammer with dip:
Humpback hammer, flat on top, no dip:
Humpback hammers also came without concentric grooves as an option (on non-357s), but with concentric grooves (on RMs & NRMs & Post War Transitional 357s):
Also notice that besides the additional checkering on the RM hammers, it is not diamond cut checkering, it's square cut checkering. Why? Probably to match the sq cut checkering on the top strap IMO.
Al RM hammers standard hammers but only RM HBHs have the concentric grooves on the side, but both always have the square cut checkering.
And one more thing, the RM hammer of yours with the spur removed has been re-checkered in the diamond cut pattern and extended over the firing pin slot so it can still be grasped and cocked for single action shooting.
It also had to have started life as a humpback hammer to be flat on top without the normal dip:
Standard RM hammer with dip:
Humpback hammer, flat on top, no dip:
Humpback hammers also came without concentric grooves as an option (on non-357s), but with concentric grooves (on RMs & NRMs & Post War Transitional 357s):
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