The Bren Ten Curse

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

Surprising no one has resurrected the Bren Ten, seems to me it would be fairly simple to do so-just don't use the customers' deposits as working capital. The AutoMag has been brought bac, though I don't anyone who has one.

 

[Ethang]

Wanna sell it?

hey now.. it's my thread.. I have first dibs...

 

[Ethang]

Interesting that such a short lived production pistol has such a cachet, a mystique. The 10MM Auto seems to be out of fashion at present.

It does? Seems to me there is more 10mm pistols than ever before..and ammo is all over too...

 

[bc1023]

I don't mind 10mm, I have a Glock 20. The the Bren Ten is, in my view, about the ugliest pistol ever produced. Or barely produced.

Wow, really? What's ugly about it? I can think of some pretty damn ugly pistols and the Bren wouldn't make the top 100.

 

[BB57]

This thread makes me want a WILDY...........

I read a few Mack Bolan novels as a kid. Consequently I've always wanted a .44 Automag.

It's another pistol that was over hyped and under delivered with poor reliability and high production costs that quickly bankrupted the original company and then quickly got passed like a hot potato through half a dozen others before dying a merciful death.

Unlike the Bren Ten it made a zombie resurgence of sorts in 2015 but with similar lots of promises but little production issues that does the original justice. In 2024 the current company reported they would be catching up on back orders and accepting new orders (at like $3500 a pop) in mid 2024, which has of course passed.

 

[Apathesis]

If there was a demand for the Bren Ten, they would be on the market. There is no curse, the gun is just a lousy design.

While the design needs improvements, there is absolutely a curse.

How much do you know about the failure of the Vltor Fortis? Eric Kincel was ****** over on that, and it is precisely why he left VTLOR, the company he founded.

Do you know about Chuck Warner attempt to build them around 2019-2020 before he got pinched by the ATF?

Do you know about the latest addition to the curse involving a scam artist named Stuart Palmer--an investor in Chuck Warner's attempt--who is facing 20 years in the can for fraud surrounding a Bren Ten resurrection scam and a 40th Miami Vice anniversary event scam?

Hell, I was scammed out of an airsoft version a few months ago.

At this point, I would settle for stainless clone from Tisas.

That said, what aspects do you find lousy? I've never had hands on one.

The Bren Ten was like the Auto Mag. Introduced with a big splash, lots of publicity, then buyers found them next to impossible to get, interest faded rapidly.

I wonder how much of that was driven by Miami Vice vs advertising in gun magazines at the time?

 

[Patrick L]

Yeah, I was in college when all this went down. Definitely formative years, but in spite of it I never drank the Bren Ten kool-aid, nor the 10mm Hi C.

I always wondered what Cooper was thinking of when he got into that mess.

 

[45Smashemflat]

Definitely prettier than a Glock. Not sure I would spring for a Bren Ten remake, but I would at least go look.

 

[Rick Sanborn]

I have a thing for weird but iconic failures.

 

[Apathesis]

remember, miami beach in the early 1980s was called a "waiting room for heaven", miami vice documentaries admit it was a parkign lot of rocking chairs and senior citizens waiting to die in the sun.

The tv show producers shipped in alot of hot chicks in tiny bikinis and created the whole scenic background, and created the miami beach spring break scene.

Not sure what point you are trying to make. Yes. MIAMI VICE changed Miami forever, but that doesn't answer my question of what was the main driver of interest in the Bren Ten.

 

[petepeterson]

At this point, I would settle for stainless clone from Tisas.

I think you've hit on a great idea there.

 

[10mmauto]

1066 holster

I don't have a Bren Ten but do have a 10mm I won't get rid of, a S&W 1066 (bet you might have guessed that from my user name). Over the years I've managed to add an additional 7 genuine S&W 10mm mags for it. The one thing I've never been able to find, and if anyone has any recommendations please let me know, is a level 2 or even a level 3 duty holster. Before I retired we were allowed to chose the weapon we wished to carry but it had to be at least a level 2 holster and I could never find one so I carried either a 1911 45 or a 1911 Super 38 (both Colts of course). Retired now so can carry the 1066 any way I want but I'm more comfortable with level 2 carry. I understand I can use a holster for ether the S&W 1066 or 4566, but I can't find either. I currently use a Black Widow for personal carry. Curious what others use.

I had a holster made for my 1066 by Skip Ritchie at Ritchie Leather Co. (Ritchie Leather Co., Inc: Amherst, NY). Skip used to work for Lou Alessi at the original Alessi Holsters. I've been going to Ritchie's since Skip and his brother Bob took over from Lou when Lou passed away. They make several types of concealment holsters and they have a mold for the 1066. These are of the highest quality and I've been buying holsters from Alessi and now Skip for 35 (I can't believe it!) years now.

 

[Apathesis]

I had a holster made for my 1066 by Skip Ritchie at Ritchie Leather Co. (Ritchie Leather Co., Inc: Amherst, NY). Skip used to work for Lou Alessi at the original Alessi Holsters. I've been going to Ritchie's since Skip and his brother Bob took over from Lou when Lou passed away. They make several types of concealment holsters and they have a mold for the 1066. These are of the highest quality and I've been buying holsters from Alessi and now Skip for 35 (I can't believe it!) years now.

Ritchie's shoulder holster designs shame anything else out there with the retention method being far faster and more intuitive to overcome than when dealing the typical clumsy thumb break design of most. At least Galco and a few others use retention screws so you can opt to not use the thumb break if you you crank the tightness up to get a much faster and less clumsy draw.

Vintage Safariland level 3 1066 patrol holster on eBay. I have 3 of these for my 1076, 1006, and my 5906. They really are incredible holsters.

NEW Safariland 070 Duty Holster 1066 Belt Loop Level III Retention Black Right | eBay

 

[Bloodhound]

My Miami Vice Fan love was fulfilled with the S&W 645...it was my first semi-auto work gun agter the Sheriff made me swap from the revolver to the semi-auto.

The first 10mm I fell for was the Colt Delta Elate. But even they were too expensive for me. I worked with a Deputy who carried a S&W 1006 but he struggled to qualify with it every quarter and finally settled on the 4006. I don't need a Bren and its a good thing, because the divorrce would cost even more than the pistol

 

[stansdds]

My Miami Vice Fan love was fulfilled with the S&W 645...it was my first semi-auto work gun agter the Sheriff made me swap from the revolver to the semi-auto.

The first 10mm I fell for was the Colt Delta Elate. But even they were too expensive for me. I worked with a Deputy who carried a S&W 1006 but he struggled to qualify with it every quarter and finally settled on the 4006. I don't need a Bren and its a good thing, because the divorrce would cost even more than the pistol

I was never able to afford a Bren Ten. Saw just a few at gun shows, but the prices when new were very high. My only, so far, 10mm Auto is a Colt Delta Elite. I was not impressed with the plastic recoil spring guide rod, which also acts as a shock buffer, so it's life span is limited. The plastic guide rod also required a dual recoil spring, again, not impressed. Accuracy was typical of Colt in the 1980's, which is to say, pretty sloppy barrel lock up.


I do now own not one, but two S&W 645's. Also have a very good condition Galco Miami Classic shoulder holster for it too. Yep, I can get my Sonny Crockett going, just need a fake Ferrari 365 GTS/4.

 

[S&W Fan]

An old shop in Denver had one (it's now in a nearby city under different owners). The original place lost it in a burglary but amazingly was recovered. In 1985 I requested info from D&D, still have what I received:

 

[BigMuddy]

I've probably told this before, but being a big Miami Vice fan, and unable to afford a Bren Ten, I bought a M645 when they first came out. Closest gun I could get that looked kinda like the big Bren. The next season of Miami Vice and there's Sonny with a 645. I always said he switched to be like me.

Dan

 

[BigMuddy]

And we all know the real reason for the change…. The 645 is one helluva gun!!!

Dan

 

[max]

Maybe the Turks will bring out a clone?

 

[petepeterson]

An old shop in Denver had one (it's now in a nearby city under different owners). The original place lost it in a burglary but amazingly was recovered. In 1985 I requested info from D&D, still have what I received:

Maybe they used the same company that made the pistol magazines to produce the catalogs.

 

[stansdds]

Maybe they used the same company that made the pistol magazines to produce the catalogs.

"Out of stock" should have been the slogan for D&D.

 

[SlamFire]

Amazing that the Bren Ten still has a following, and it is all due to a TV show. Boomer memories of a half century old TV show drive these sales. Without that media exposure, the Bren Ten would be a historical curiosity; it was a flash in the pan. Looked good, had a lot of very positive press. I still have a magazine issue on the introduction of the Bren Ten. The gunwriter had 200 rounds, wrote a long article absolutely praising the gun and the cartridge. The creation of the world was a small event compared to the introduction of the Bren Ten. He predicted a long future for the Bren Ten. At the time, never heard any negatives, or whiff's of production problems with the Bren Ten.

Forty years on, I can believe that Dornaus and Dixon were an under capitalized firm, probably living from gun sale to gun sale. The problem with Italian magazines not fitting production pistols is an example of a small shop not having on site Quality Control, probably they did not have face to face meetings with the sub contractor, may not have had a final drawing package. I can imagine the magazine manufacturer having an "as built" pistol to examine, and then the "as built" dimensions changing on the pistol production line!

Issues such as slide cracking indicate poor choices of slide materials, inadequate examination of slide stresses and heat treatment. These are all indications of a "wing and a prayer" development program. Having worked on "success orientated" programs, I can tell you, not having the time or money to research issues early, and then going forward with back of the envelope concepts, caused a lot of programs to fail. You see this all the time with Government programs.

Anyone looked at our Government mandated Green Energy transition? Typical example of a great concept that fails in the details. Originators who are "great visionaries", but lack the understanding of the logistics and development engineering that it takes to make "great leaps of faith" work, these individuals create expensive failures.

I am sure this is what happened with Dornaus and Dixon. Not having magazines to ship with their pistols was a clue that the company was not well managed, and was soon going to founder on the shoals.

As for owning one of the Bren Tens, if you shoot the thing and a part breaks, who is out there making replacements, and who is out there that can fit them? That is something a future buyer should think about.

 

[Sevens]

I would imagine that it is an incredibly tiny percentage of Bren Ten owners today that would make a rational decision to shoot these pistols.

They simply trade for way too much money to make shooting a known problematic pistol a bright move.

 

[smoothshooter]

The Bren Ten was like the Auto Mag. Introduced with a big splash, lots of publicity, then buyers found them next to impossible to get, interest faded rapidly.

Why would someone start up a business that could not deliver their product?
Very unprofessional.
I would not want anything to do with them.

 

[ISCS Yoda]

Col. Jeff Cooper wasn't right all of the time. Just mostly. Nobody ever needed a Bren Ten. It's not ugly, it's just another decent looking, large pistol. Yawn.....

Not interested.....

And this is incorrect:

I can feel it
Calling in the air tonight.

I can feel it coming in the air tonight
Oh, Lord
And I've been waiting for this moment, for all my life
Oh, Lord
Can you feel it coming in the air tonight?
Oh, Lord
Oh, Lord

In the Air Tonight lyrics © Phil Collins Ltd, Philip Collins Ltd

 

[BigMuddy]

I wonder how many actual viewers of Miami Vice had any idea what guns were being used? I'm betting most of those "boomers" watching the show weren't gun people. I also wonder if not for the Bren would we have ever had the 10mm? It's a great cartridge even though Sonny didn't use it.

Dan

 

[boykinlp]

Loved the Miami Vice TV show back in the day! I've always wondered why reruns of the show weren't done on cable TV. It was so popular, and shows of that type are shown constantly.
Larry

 

[stansdds]

Loved the Miami Vice TV show back in the day! I've always wondered why reruns of the show weren't done on cable TV. It was so popular, and shows of that type are shown constantly.
Larry

I think a few cable/satellite channels did pick it up for syndication, but it did not last long. Maybe there is a particularly high syndication fee for Miami Vice?

 

[SlamFire]

Why would someone start up a business that could not deliver their product?
Very unprofessional.
I would not want anything to do with them.

Hope, businesses are started on hope. The founders do want to deliver a product, they do want happy customers, they do want sales. The first year failure rate on small businesses is high, I see number from 50% to 87 %, depends on the study. Founders get over their heads financially, external factors blow holes in their budgets.

I am sure Dornaus and Dixon thought they had a real thing that was going to last. It did not.

 

[stansdds]

Hope, businesses are started on hope. The founders do want to deliver a product, they do want happy customers, they do want sales. The first year failure rate on small businesses is high, I see number from 50% to 87 %, depends on the study. Founders get over their heads financially, external factors blow holes in their budgets.

I am sure Dornaus and Dixon thought they had a real thing that was going to last. It did not.

With D&D, it was magazine availability. What good is a pistol that ships without magazines?