Stu Honea
Member
C.A.R. is a very good skill to own in certain close up situations. Good post on that. Doubt many here have trained in it,but its a good tool to have in the box.
The center of center mass
- Thread starter richardw
- Start date
C.A.R. is a very good skill to own in certain close up situations. Good post on that. Doubt many here have trained in it,but its a good tool to have in the box.
cavnamvet
Member
20 years in and around the medical field and I've never heard that term used as an anatomical reference. That's like saying shoot them in the Syncopal Episode.
Apparently there's a lot you haven't heard of..
As I wrote , used by some, doesn't include you..
cavnamvet
Member
20 years in and around the medical field and I've never heard that term used as an anatomical reference. That's like saying shoot them in the Syncopal Episode.
You learn something new every day..
Especially if you've led a sheltered life..
Lee's Landing Billy
Member
Go and sin no more.........
Alk8944
US Veteran
Sorry if this offends anyone (not really) and it will, but from the OPs post this has been absolutely inane! It finally got to me!.
There have been several excellent peripheral points made by several posters, I am not addressing them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The basic premise of "center of center mass" is what is ridiculous. Center is a POINT, not an area, no matter how you look at it. Center Mass is a POINT, you cannot have a center of a point! What CENTER MASS as an aiming point means just that, aiming for a point which constitutes the center of the major mass of the human body. Draw lines from left shoulder to the right hip and vice-versa, where they cross, approximately at the solar plexus, is the point which is the center of the mass of the body.
The entire premise of aiming for "center mass" is it gives you the highest hit probability somewhere on the human body. Nothing more nor less. It doesn't need any more explanation than this!
There have been several excellent peripheral points made by several posters, I am not addressing them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The basic premise of "center of center mass" is what is ridiculous. Center is a POINT, not an area, no matter how you look at it. Center Mass is a POINT, you cannot have a center of a point! What CENTER MASS as an aiming point means just that, aiming for a point which constitutes the center of the major mass of the human body. Draw lines from left shoulder to the right hip and vice-versa, where they cross, approximately at the solar plexus, is the point which is the center of the mass of the body.
The entire premise of aiming for "center mass" is it gives you the highest hit probability somewhere on the human body. Nothing more nor less. It doesn't need any more explanation than this!
I think that, if you are referring to "center of mass" as defined in physics, you are correct. In physics center of mass is the same as center of gravity, that it is a point.
I was referring to the word center mass as commonly used in self defense shooting training. It is not a point it is an area. Within that are there is a prime zone for lethal hits. That is what I described.
Sorry to have been inane and irritated you, but I stand by what I wrote based upon shooters general use of the word center mass.
That's what REAL gunfighters say...
Anyone who was around 'real' gunfighters and the gunighters themselves, describe calm, making the first shot count and having no fear, regret or compunction about pulling the trigger and putting a bullet into a person. Being the person I am, with a conscious and a desire to live my entire life without hurting a soul I don't think that I could be that deliberate. The ONLY hedge that people like me have is training, the more and more realistic the better.
Anyone who was around 'real' gunfighters and the gunighters themselves, describe calm, making the first shot count and having no fear, regret or compunction about pulling the trigger and putting a bullet into a person. Being the person I am, with a conscious and a desire to live my entire life without hurting a soul I don't think that I could be that deliberate. The ONLY hedge that people like me have is training, the more and more realistic the better.
Just liked your post. It is so right on target (no pun intended) that I hope many will read and comprehend it.
Before I joined the Marines the thought of actually hurting, shootings at, or killing another person was not in my reality. Remembering my first threat experiences at Bay of
and Cuban Missile Crisis, I was plenty scared. Yes, I was trained, but I had never been shot at nor had shot at a person.
Recognizing a young Marine's fear while we waited to land during the bungled Bay of Pigs fiasco, my platoon sergeant asked me if I was scared. When I replied with a Yes he said Good, I am scared too, but we are Marines and we face fear in the eye and do what we are trained to do. He told me to not try to outthink my training and to follow it because that was the way to survive.
I did not see combat until 1965. During my 4 tours in Nam and 30 years in the Corps I came to understand the wisdom of that advice. I passed it on to many young Marines over that time.
In the Kubrick film, Full Metal Jacket, Lee Ermy plays a DI. Upon graduation from boot camp he tells his brand new Marines "Marines die. That is what we are here for." While he conditions that statement in subsequent dialogue, the message is clear. He is stating what every Combat Marine knows: death is a day to day reality. Then we realize that the way to avoid death as much as it can be avoided is to train and execute based upon that training.
So the post I quoted is reminiscent and real. Take heed.
richardw,
Thank you for your post. One thing I find interesting throughout the entire discussion is the varying views of center of mass. While these days I am predominantly a target shooter, center of mass is natural for me. In high power matches, and the numerous 2700 matches I have participated in, a 6 o'clock hold was used and practiced perhaps one day. I point my sights (when I have the luxury) at the center of largest target presented to me, with the expectation that point of aim will coincide with the point of impact. A six o'clock sight picture is impractical.
My combat experience does not compare with Richard's, but his advice rings with value. Survival is job one, and worrying about getting hurt guarantees your chances at survival are reduced.
I believe that virtually all of us that carry and find that we have to engage and neutralize an imminent threat have to accept that we will get hurt, and that the quicker we neutralize the threat, the less likely the injuries to our loved ones may be. We must, however, learn to hit the vitals that will take the fight out of the threat as quickly as possible.
Thank you for your post. One thing I find interesting throughout the entire discussion is the varying views of center of mass. While these days I am predominantly a target shooter, center of mass is natural for me. In high power matches, and the numerous 2700 matches I have participated in, a 6 o'clock hold was used and practiced perhaps one day. I point my sights (when I have the luxury) at the center of largest target presented to me, with the expectation that point of aim will coincide with the point of impact. A six o'clock sight picture is impractical.
My combat experience does not compare with Richard's, but his advice rings with value. Survival is job one, and worrying about getting hurt guarantees your chances at survival are reduced.
I believe that virtually all of us that carry and find that we have to engage and neutralize an imminent threat have to accept that we will get hurt, and that the quicker we neutralize the threat, the less likely the injuries to our loved ones may be. We must, however, learn to hit the vitals that will take the fight out of the threat as quickly as possible.
OLDSTER
Member
I would like some input from folks that have actually been in a "close and personal shoot-to-survive" encounter. I've always been a believer in practicing point and shoot rapid fire at 3,5,7, and 10 yards. So my question is; in a panic, high stress, maximum adrenaline, survival mode, situation, do sights, trigger pull, proper grip, etc. even factor in ?? IMHO I think not. 
Very well stated reality check for all.
Retired Chief
US Veteran
Yoda, you're an old fart. I too learned the 2 to the body, 1 to the head, as the Mozamibique drill, but by the time I retired from the pistol team the army was going politically correct and calling it the body armor drill.
Alky, I learned the aiming point for center mass was figured by mentally drawing a line from nipple to nipple, then trying to cut that line in equal halves. A little off either way still works, dead center cuts the spine and they drop like a sack of rocks.
Alky, I learned the aiming point for center mass was figured by mentally drawing a line from nipple to nipple, then trying to cut that line in equal halves. A little off either way still works, dead center cuts the spine and they drop like a sack of rocks.
Walkingwolf
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Whether in a violent storm, on a sinking ship, in a fist fight, or a SD gunfight staying calm is imperative to survival. Acting like a scared little girl will not be productive. Firefighters probably know this better than most of the public. It is skill most people can learn.
Too many people train, and train, and train, and shoot, and shoot, and shoot, and still miss the target when it counts.
Too many people train, and train, and train, and shoot, and shoot, and shoot, and still miss the target when it counts.
AZretired
Member
Sorry but as soon as I saw the Chicken wing, bladed stance for "Operators", I knew this was not for me. I taught police firearms training for years and this would not work with most police officers. SWAT guys would probably like it cause its for Operators.
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