The double rifle dream
- Thread starter weatherby
- Start date
Register to hide this ad
OP
I currently believe it to be 450 BPE but haven't checked yet.
Absolutely......probably not much but some.
Absolutely......probably not much but some.
Rpg
Member
Beautiful gun!
Stunning wood, great Damascus barrels. A real best gun.
No one can do that today.
Stunning wood, great Damascus barrels. A real best gun.
No one can do that today.
OP
You can't really tell by the pictures I posted but is has what I think they call a cripple stock. I am right handed but left eye dominant so it does work for me.
Rpg
Member
A number of years ago, a series of articles by Ross Seifried was published in Double Gun Journal about reloading the old British bpe and cordite rounds with modern smokeless powder. Well worth reading!
OP
Rpg
Member
Did he assist you in acquiring your gun?
OP
OLDSTER
Member
Good grief !! You have an enviable love for old long guns with BEAUTIFUL wood. Like your AH Fox you posted recently.
OP
Good grief !! You have an enviable love for old long guns with BEAUTIFUL wood. Like your AH Fox you posted recently.
I am a junkie....both from the same place.
You didn't like little orphan Anne ?
She came from there too.
I know I can't go back for quite a while...too weak.
Attachments
Ivan the Butcher
Member
There are 2 different 450 BPE cartridges. one is 2.5", the other is 3.25" The rims are the same diameter as 45-70 but the Brit rounds are very thin!
I have a 450/3.25/Nitro Express by Westly Richards from around 1898 to 1905. The American cartridges of the same length are close enough to use their loading dies! My 450 3 1/4 N.E. dies were almost twice the price as 45-120 Winchester dies! You will need the correct shell holder! American bullets of .458" are the correct diameter but bullet weight very but the bullet shape is what make the problem! RN is definitely not the same as semi-RN!
Forget using Pyrodex! Swiss is probably the best BP available to us now, but Goex has done well for me. In your load development, Try each charge weight in different "F" sizes, you will see velocity changes of up to 50 fps! And that will alter the regulating of the load.
The type of rifling is important! Enfield rifling is for jacketed bullets with smokeless powder; Medford Rifling is for Jacketed bullets with Black Powder. (Medford is rounded, Enfield is very square!) My Nitro Express actually has Medford, because all reloading was done with BP until just before WWI. That gave the owner a choice of ammo. Factory Nitro for Dangerous game and BP for large game. (8 bore was the minimum caliber for Dangerous Game with BP)
On my rifle, a Hornady 350 grain RN over 120 FFFg is dead on at 50 yards using the 100 yard sight (Which is set for a 480 grain Nitro loading).
Ivan
I have a 450/3.25/Nitro Express by Westly Richards from around 1898 to 1905. The American cartridges of the same length are close enough to use their loading dies! My 450 3 1/4 N.E. dies were almost twice the price as 45-120 Winchester dies! You will need the correct shell holder! American bullets of .458" are the correct diameter but bullet weight very but the bullet shape is what make the problem! RN is definitely not the same as semi-RN!
Forget using Pyrodex! Swiss is probably the best BP available to us now, but Goex has done well for me. In your load development, Try each charge weight in different "F" sizes, you will see velocity changes of up to 50 fps! And that will alter the regulating of the load.
The type of rifling is important! Enfield rifling is for jacketed bullets with smokeless powder; Medford Rifling is for Jacketed bullets with Black Powder. (Medford is rounded, Enfield is very square!) My Nitro Express actually has Medford, because all reloading was done with BP until just before WWI. That gave the owner a choice of ammo. Factory Nitro for Dangerous game and BP for large game. (8 bore was the minimum caliber for Dangerous Game with BP)
On my rifle, a Hornady 350 grain RN over 120 FFFg is dead on at 50 yards using the 100 yard sight (Which is set for a 480 grain Nitro loading).
Ivan
LoboGunLeather
US Veteran
Oh my! What a beautiful piece.
OP
Thanks Ivan.
You have all the cool toys.
It is bigger than 45 I have since measured looks to be a 50.
I'll be measuring the depth too and seeing if I fimd what the ledger says but by eye looks like 3 1/4
You have all the cool toys.
It is bigger than 45 I have since measured looks to be a 50.
I'll be measuring the depth too and seeing if I fimd what the ledger says but by eye looks like 3 1/4
Last edited:
vonn
US Veteran
Wonder where that beautiful firearm has been and what it has seen.
OP
HI Vonn by the condition it may not have seen much.I am trying to see whom it was built for as Grant's ledger of builds is intact.
Ivan the Butcher
Member
500 3" BPE was a very common cartridge. Brit gun used several bore diameters .505 is the most common of the 500's
The under lever action was discontinued in 1905 (I am sure that guns were build on "Old Stock" for a few years after that) Kynok loaded "Smokeless for BP" ammo, your rifle should be able to handle the slightly higher pressures. Cartridges of the World has some basic loading data for you round. but the regulated load should be on the "Watertable" (bottom side of the barrel flats) It will give bullet weight but not diameter!! I should tell if it only has BP proofs of if it has a light Nitro proof, the strength will be in "Tons"
Ivan
The under lever action was discontinued in 1905 (I am sure that guns were build on "Old Stock" for a few years after that) Kynok loaded "Smokeless for BP" ammo, your rifle should be able to handle the slightly higher pressures. Cartridges of the World has some basic loading data for you round. but the regulated load should be on the "Watertable" (bottom side of the barrel flats) It will give bullet weight but not diameter!! I should tell if it only has BP proofs of if it has a light Nitro proof, the strength will be in "Tons"
Ivan
OP
scooter123
Member
Damascus barrels were made by coiling steel/iron around a steel rod and then hammer forging the conglomerate together. This produces a barrel with a spiral internal flaw path that extends the entire length of the barrel. Add to that the fact that the quality of the weld is dependent on the skill of the welder and you have a method of manufacture that was/is prone to producing barrels that can split when used with smokeless powder. I would advise that even if your barrels are Nitro Proofed that you ONLY use genuine Black Powder to load your cartridges.
OP
I definitely plan to use only BP
Thanks.
I've been doing some Q tipping and oiling and was definitely impressed by his wood to metal fitment.
I also took another picture of the wood for Oldster.
And the bore and a better one of the markings
Thanks.
I've been doing some Q tipping and oiling and was definitely impressed by his wood to metal fitment.
I also took another picture of the wood for Oldster.
And the bore and a better one of the markings
Attachments
Last edited:
