The fabled S&Ws (TLs, RMs, K32s, etc), overhyped?

[Modified]

This is a question for those of you who have managed to get your mitts on some of these fabled guns. The ones that you have to get lucky to own, or have a pretty good pile of cash and sometimes years of patient looking to find the right gun.

Guns such as;

K32
Registered Magnum
Triple Lock
Third Model 44 HE
Mexican Model M&P
Ladysmith
2" Pre-War M&P
Pre-War Terriers
Pre-War Kit Guns
K-22/40
Model 3
Lever Action
Club Guns
King Super Targets or other modifications even

Maybe others that don't come immediately to my mind. I think you get the idea of the guns I am talking about.

The question is this; when you did get the gun, did it please you in the way you thought it would prior to owning it?

Or did you maybe feel the gun had been a bit overhyped? Or maybe just not quite what you thought it would be?

Or, did the gun maybe prove to be even better then you expected?

I'm curious not only about the answers to these questions, but the reasons behind them.

One of the things I find wonderful about S&W collecting is that there are so many areas to collect in, and enjoy. The forums and the standard catalog set me on the path, but where I arrived isn't something I would have ever guessed. I feel like the pursuit of these "fabled" models really helped me arrive at a solidly enjoyable collecting niche, and I am wondering if others followed the same, or a similar path.

 

[Tom K]

This is a question for those of you who have managed to get your mitts on some of these fabled guns. The ones that you have to get lucky to own, or have a pretty good pile of cash and sometimes years of patient looking to find the right gun.

Guns such as;

K32 got it (M16-3 and 16-4)
Registered Magnum got it
Triple Lock got it (plain and Target)
Third Model 44 HE got it
Mexican Model M&P
Ladysmith got it (3rd Model and 3rd Target)
2" Pre-War M&P
Pre-War Terriers
Pre-War Kit Guns got it (.22 flavor)
K-22/40
Model 3 got it
Lever Action
Club Guns
King Super Targets or other modifications even got it (custom Triple Lock target, .455 converted to .45 Colt)

Maybe others that don't come immediately to my mind. I think you get the idea of the guns I am talking about.

The question is this; when you did get the gun, did it please you in the way you thought it would prior to owning it?

Or did you maybe feel the gun had been a bit overhyped? Or maybe just not quite what you thought it would be?

Or, did the gun maybe prove to be even better then you expected?

I'm curious not only about the answers to these questions, but the reasons behind them.

One of the things I find wonderful about S&W collecting is that there are so many areas to collect in, and enjoy. The forums and the standard catalog set me on the path, but where I arrived isn't something I would have ever guessed. I feel like the pursuit of these "fabled" models really helped me arrive at a solidly enjoyable collecting niche, and I am wondering if others followed the same, or a similar path.

I do enjoy owning and shooting all of these, and enjoyed the pursuit and capture, but honestly they do all seem a bit over-hyped.

For instance I don't think the Triple Lock is any better at all as a gun than a M24-3. The 24-3 is undoubtedly stronger and has better sights. But the Triple Lock does have that exquisitely machined third lock mechanism. Likewise the RM vs an M27-2. The RM is desirable simply because it was a trailblazer. There's nothing that a K32 can do that a K38 can't do better (as evidenced by the historically poor sales of the K32), but it's fun to own something that not every Joe has.

Pretty much all of mine are shooter grade and don't have that pristine cachet of a safe queen. But then I wouldn't be shooting them.

 

[raljr1]

K32 - since I like 32s, yesI like these
Registered Magnum - Mine is factory reworked -sweet shooter
Triple Lock -everything I expected
Third Model 44 HE I like mine, but no more than the 2nd model
Mexican Model M&P - still looking for one of these
Ladysmith -First model , neat piece of work...dont shoot it much
2" Pre-War M&P - never had one
Pre-War Terriers -like to find one
Pre-War Kit Guns- not in my future
K-22/40-I have an Outdoorsman. Beautiful piece of machining
Model 3 mine is a beater but fun
Lever Action- none
Club Guns- none
King Super Targets or other modifications even- none

 

[Nightowl]

I'm not much of a collector, but I do have two RMs, both of which I stumbled into at Cabela's, of all places, at very good prices. One is too nice and valuable to shoot. But, I enjoy the ownership of them and get to show them off on occasion

I have a some pre 27s and 27-2s that are shooters that get used as it is my favorite gun, along with some 627s. Most of my Smiths have been ones I stumbled into, some I found here on the forum and some at GB. I recently stumbled on a pre 27 from 1953 sitting on the shelf of a gunsmith on consignment. I didn't need another one, but you know how it is!

The old pre war guns my be overhyped and overpriced, but isn't anything that is old, limited and collectable? However, I do not intend to spend 7-10K for a gun that I won't shoot when I can buy maybe 7 or 8 other Smiths for that money. That said, I am not selling my RMs!

 

[delcrossv]

Well, I can only speak to the ones I have. I shoot my collection, so for me it's Form + Function.

Triple lock:
I have 3 and I love them. Because for me they do this at 50'

with this gun

not too shabby for something shipped in 1908

3rd model 44:
Nice, but IMO the triplelock is a better gun at the range
I do like it better than my transitionals though (???)

Ladysmiths:

You're kidding, right? They're the jewels of my collection- and the kids love em! (Me too! )

There's something about them that really appeals .

I have a couple of terriers , but I've decided I'm not a big snubby fan. Give me a long tube. Reg. Pol Targets! Fun to shoot, fun to own.

K22's: I like my first model, but aside from the Ladysmiths, I'm not a big 22 shooter.

But my favorite of all is this prewar Heavy Duty. Just the Best Gun Ever. It points itself.
Glamour shot:

I would like a prewar K-32 just because I like long action 32's and I surmise I'd be better with it than my I frame targets.

 

[MrG5122]

The only one on your list that I have is a K32. I stumbled out of bed on Saturday morning and pulled up the classifieds on here. There it was for a reasonable price and I hit the "I'll take it" button. I've put probably 500 rounds through it since then and it is a great shooter. The only mark on it was a turn line so I shoot it often. My grandkids love it and I'm proud to own it.

 

[Salox]

Five inch nickel pre-29, and way, way better than the hype!

 

[jcelect]

Collecting S&W guns

To the OP! You have ask a question that has an answer which is different for every collector here! In your original post you mentioned your "niche"!
Each collector has his niche ie; no dash 4 screw guns, N frame guns, 44 Mags, non adjustable sighted guns, J frame guns, club guns, 3" N frame hand cannons, & etc! Through the years of collecting many times our niche changes, for many reasons, and usually when of the "chase" to find guns pertaining to that niche become more difficult! I started collecting S&Ws many hears ago looking for J frame post 1957 guns! Along the way I have found a 10 5/8" Silhouette in 41 Mag(one of 4 guns made), a 1955 Target first year production birthDay gun for me, and a few Chief's Special Targets! You mentioned overhyped guns which are guns we have read about but have not seen often which usually are guns of limited or low production numbers. The thrill for me is owning a gun that very few people can find! The thrill of ownership is different for each and every collector!
jcelect

 

[kwill1911]

With respect--the question, as posed, makes no sense. Who is overhyping these guns? In spite of what some believe, sellers don't set the prices--buyers do. There is no one forcing collectors to pay high prices, however one defines price. Collectors buy what they value. The guns you list are in high demand and so prices rise until supply and demand reach equilibrium.

 

[two-bit cowboy]

Anytime human creatures gather with the purpose of sharing a common interest, there will be hyperbole.

I've shot S&Ws for 62 of my 69 years on this planet. I joined the forum some years ago for the fellowship, camaraderie, and to absorb knowledge.

Early on I recall being drawn to the threads on postwar K-22s. The bug bit me, and I had to have one. K-2762, shipped in August 1947. Has the barrel extractor knob and one-line address. It has a bit of character. It didn't live up to the hype. Fun to shoot, but finicky when it gets dirty. Better ammo helps, but it's still labor intense. Not my idea of a fun range day.

I-frame .32s came next, primarily because a Model 31 2" was the first gun I ever shot. I have one like my grandmother's, but all the others moved along after I discovered the Baby Chiefs Specials.

The first major consideration for me was this: the cylinder fills the cavity in the frame. It looks "finished" and tidy. This "look" is one of the main reasons I'm not a Model 27 fan.

So the Chiefs bug bit me hard. The herd has multiplied, currently sitting around three score from 1951 through 2000. Finding that "next one" to fill a hole in the model's evolution is wonderful, even if it's not my Chiefs Special. I relish documenting friends' examples to help fill the gaps. I don't have to own them all, but I sure enjoy adding to the historic knowledge by bringing the data together.

The long-standing last known Baby Chiefs Special is s/n 45963. It's funny that we glom onto to that as if it were cast in stone. It came from a one-time forum poster at least a decade ago. We don't know its ship date.

The first known carbon steel Model of 1953 (4-screw) Chiefs Special is 46042. It belongs to a forum friend. Although we know of Baby Chiefs that shipped in May 1954 and several Model of 1953 Chiefs that shipped in June 1954, 46042 didn't ship till September 1954.

I'm always on the lookout for a higher serial numbered Baby and a lower serial numbered Model of 1953, and, again, I don't have to own them, I simply love being a data nerd to document all these things. I think we're doing pretty well since the spread between Baby Chiefs and Model of 1953 Chiefs is only 79 numbers.

 

[HeloMt]

The list is interesting as it has a lot of the "grail guns" pursued by collectors. That said some of the guns are collected for very different reasons. The two standards for any addition to a collection are usually condition and rarity. If the condition is too high it usually takes away the ability for the collector to shoot or use it. So in my mind the question becomes am I looking for a shooter or an untouchable? If you are asking if the the shooting quality of the guns you list is a let down after ownership is secured that is completely different question than just the pure joy of ownership of the gun. Often, condition and rarity place a gun out of the realm of being shot, so pride of ownership and the ability to fill a niche in a collection become the primary motivators for the collector. As such, these guns rarely underwhelm.

Regarding shooters, it is entirely subjective as to the experience one has while shooting. What underwhelms me might be pretty exciting for you...and vice versa.

All of that said, I have a couple of RM's...one is a shooter and one isn't. Both give me pleasure, but for different reasons and neither have underwhelmed me. The quality of the build of these revolvers is exceptional. Being a long-time armorer for a LE agency I can assure you that later or current production guns are not in the same class. The attention to detail and the fitting is remarkable. It is like comparing my old Omega Speedmaster to a Seiko Quartz...the Seiko might keep better time, but the hand work and craftsmanship just isn't comparable.

Shooting my "shooter" RM next to a 27-2 shows a significant difference. The 27-2 is a fine gun, but the RM gives much greater pleasure as it "feels" like it is running on ball-bearings...it's that smooth and accurate.

I don't consider RM's necessarily rare...I think the primary attraction is their extreme quality and flagship status. In those areas they are not overhyped.

 

[steelslaver]

I have a triple lock and a lady smith. Only K32 I have is a 16-4 (other than "homemade")

I don't think it is about they can do anything the other guns can't. But, much more about quality, uniqueness and interest. The Lady Smith because of its size, tge triple lock because of what went into the 3rd lock. 32s because they are a great little round.

 

[LLOYD17]

Registered Magnum - Owned a few, down to one. Amazing guns but moved some to buy other stuff. I miss the one with a pile of provenance but I'm proud of where it went.

Triple Lock - owned a few including a target, the only one that's remained is a 4" with LE history

Third Model 44 HE - love these but have moved all but one (chopped, modified with target sights)

2" Pre-War M&P - found one, cool but realized I didn't want to keep a rare gun that isn't my niche

King Super Targets or other modifications even - love my King modified left handed 38/44 OD. Not a super target but the action is amazing as well at the various King parts.

In owning all those and moving most, I came to realize I prefer flat top over round top and pre war target sights over post war. That narrows things down quite a bit. I also like calibers that start with 4 and shorter barrels too. That has led to having custom guns built that were either never made or only made in minuscule numbers.

Because pictures are always needed, here are two 45's (ACP and Colt) and I should have an even snubbier fixed sight 44spl ready by next summer. These and my other customs have definitely lived up to expectations.

Damn near perfect

Best gun I've owned yet

 

[lestert357]

Best gun I've owned yet

That gun, and the story that goes with it, pleases me every time I see pictures of it; I don't even have to own it!

 

[Modified]

With respect--the question, as posed, makes no sense. Who is overhyping these guns? In spite of what some believe, sellers don't set the prices--buyers do. There is no one forcing collectors to pay high prices, however one defines price. Collectors buy what they value. The guns you list are in high demand and so prices rise until supply and demand reach equilibrium.

I was trying to start a thread to garner responses like this:

In owning all those and moving most, I came to realize I prefer flat top over round top and pre war target sights over post war. That narrows things down quite a bit. I also like calibers that start with 4 and shorter barrels too. That has led to having custom guns built that were either never made or only made in minuscule numbers.

...

Best gun I've owned yet

partly because egads what a registered magnum! but mostly because of the line; "In owning all those and moving most".


One of the things about the internet is that it creates a hype for things naturally. It doesn't take some dealers overhyping something, it can just be people glorying over their latest find.

What I would like to make sure people who are maybe lurking here and are new to S&Ws understand is that there isn't some sort of pinnacle of S&W collecting, there is only what you like. My goal in the question was to prompt pretty much the replies we have here, which I think show the diversity of collecting with S&Ws. And, I think importantly, that you may spend a little time sorting out what you like the most about old S&Ws.

The title and the question is more for people searching online a bit for these guns, and hopefully arriving here to get a broad set of replies.

 

[Ruger 13]

Had em all……….only the Triplelock Target remains!

 

[RKmesa]

...when you did get the gun, did it please you in the way you thought it would prior to owning it?

Or did you maybe feel the gun had been a bit overhyped? Or maybe just not quite what you thought it would be?

Or, did the gun maybe prove to be even better then you expected?

I'm curious not only about the answers to these questions, but the reasons behind them.

Caleb:

Here are my responses, for the ones on your list that I have owned:

K32:



I very much enjoy this gun. I never shot it (or any K-32 for that matter) and I purchased it to complete a Masterpiece trio. As I own a bunch of K-22 and K-38 Masterpieces, I think it came in right at my expectations.

Registered Magnum:

A couple of my favorites...





I bought my first RM and I was hooked. I still love them and think they may be one of the finest revolvers to ever roll off the factory line.

Triple Lock

I owned one... it never really flipped my switch and I sold it. THAT said, if I could find a reasonably priced, well-used Target TL in 44 Special, I would probably be all over it.

2" Pre-War M&P



This one really flips all of my switches - pre-war 2" M&P, engraved, and King Super Police - the S&W pearls are also very nice...

Pre-War Terriers



This little guy is amazing in the attention to detail for a little carry .38 S&W.

Pre-War Kit Guns




Not exactly a pre-war Kit Gun, but a lot of pre-war parts on this transitional Kit Gun. It also is very nice and will remain in my collection for a long time.

K-22/40



About as fine a revolver as was ever created - you have to love the original micrometer rear sight individually fit to each gun. It makes me smile every time I pull it out of the safe.

King Super Targets





King Super Target - aftermarket modifications that took nice, but relatively common guns and elevated them to the level consistent with any firearm "work of art". When combined with Roper grips, KST's are something truly qualified to bear the label "fabled guns."

The other guns on your list have not been on my want list... yet...

Thanks for letting me share,

 

[THREEDFLYER]

Well Caleb, you are making me feel left out with your list.......What about the Non-Registered Magnums????

Although I have not owned an RM, this NRM (1939) came my way recently and I am THRILLED to have come upon it!

And as a bonus, it appears to be only one of three that were produced with a custom 8-3/4" barrel.

 

[JOliver]

I have several on that list, meh they're ok

 

[max503]

What could be more fabled than a Model 15?