The gun that won the West....

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Nice looking revolver! One day, I'd like to get a Win Lever Action in .30-.30.
Prior to the Winchester 73, it would have gone to the Sharps Carbine, as seen in 'Quigley Down Under'. Used by the Military and many Buffalo Hunters.

Quigley Down Under caused a pretty good renewal in interest and sparked a bunch of replicas being manufactured.
 

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According to my reading, the "gun that won the West" was the single barrel shotgun...Maybe so but I like yours a lot better! That's a great revolver.
 
At least one of them, according to historians.
The Winchester 73 would be my top pick.
Anyway..
Colt SAA in 44.40 Black power Frame
with etched panel and bullseye ejector.
NIB..somewhat scarce 3rd gen.

Hey Xfuzz... I am no expert... and don't mean no disrespect to ya. As a matter of fact... I have tremendous respect for you... and what you represent on this forum.

This a great post... and a learnin' experience....

But that is an 1879 Frontier Six Shooter... a .44 WCF (44-40)... and not a Single Action Army (SAA, developed in 1873). The original of that pistola was made by Colt to go along with the 1873 Winchester rifle (also in .44 WCF)... so that a Cowboy could shoot the same cartridge... in his revolver and rifle. Colt and Winchester conspired to do this... (relegating Winchester to rifles... and Colts to handguns) in order to keep Colt from developing a .45 LC rifle. There is more to this story... and maybe Alpo can add to it.... but I am stickin' to it.
 
A subject near and dear to my heart. I have studied this subject for decades and have come to some conclusions I believe I can back up with evidence. First off, those television shows are just entertainment. I have caught quite a few errors in Gun Guru's and the American Rifleman. If these shows can not get it right, what are the chances a less knowledgeable show will get it right? Many well paid gun writers simply parrot old advise that was wrong when written years before. I have heard many times that the shotgun was the winner. Not even close by my research. The west is vast and open country. A shotgun has a 50 yard killing range with buckshot on small deer. The west has far larger game than the little deer back east and are shot a far greater distances. It did help feed the settlers and was close range protection but that was its limited role. No handgun I know would even be in the running. Their only use, then as now, was very close range defense. Even today with the modern guns, officers say it is their last resort and is only there to keep the bad guys at bay till a rifle can be found. Most people are only fair shots with a handgun myself included. That leaves rifles. We must determine when the west was wild. Other than a few hearty souls, 1823 was the first real expeditions into the west. By 1890 the Indian wars were over, towns had mass transportation, electricity, phones, telegraphs, and the west was official closed. A 67 year window. From my research the following 5 rifles can vie for top venue.

The muzzle loading Hawkens type rifle used by ALL out west from 1803 till at least the end of the civil war in 1865. The length of time itself make it the winner in my book.

The Springfield trapdoor in both 50-70 and 45-70 was in use from 1866 till well after the west was closed as the military's main rifle.

The Sharpes and Remington single barrel rifles devastated the buffalo herds and forced the Indians onto reservations. The old adage goes " the Sharpes made the west safe for the Winchester shooters"., has merit.

Now the Winchester lever action in both models 1866 and 1873 would find a place on the list.

The last candidate is seldom mentioned. The civil was Sharpes carbine re-chambered to 50-70 government should be on the list. These seldom heard of guns were first issue to the US Calvary, and Texas Rangers. These guns were used by Custer's early command, were used by the Indians at the Little Big Horn, the battle at Big Hole, and countless other skirmishes. After the army was issued the 1873 Springfields, these guns were offered for a free or a minimum sum to any settler that wanted one. Teamsters, settles, gold prospector all had these. Free ammunition was available at any fort if it was to be used for buffalo or Indian.

These are my candidates from my years of research. What say the forum?
 
Gun that won the West

One more thing... the gun that won the west was the shotgun... don't care what hollyweird says.

CORRECT! The shotgun is the gun that "won the West":) At least 2 historically accurate documentaries( one by Ken Burns) as well as TVs "Gun Stories" have aired interesting segments regarding the role of the shotgun in "taming" the frontier:)
 
A subject near and dear to my heart. I have studied this subject for decades and have come to some conclusions I believe I can back up with evidence. First off, those television shows are just entertainment. I have caught quite a few errors in Gun Guru's and the American Rifleman. If these shows can not get it right, what are the chances a less knowledgeable show will get it right? Many well paid gun writers simply parrot old advise that was wrong when written years before. I have heard many times that the shotgun was the winner. Not even close by my research. The west is vast and open country. A shotgun has a 50 yard killing range with buckshot on small deer. The west has far larger game than the little deer back east and are shot a far greater distances. It did help feed the settlers and was close range protection but that was its limited role. No handgun I know would even be in the running. Their only use, then as now, was very close range defense. Even today with the modern guns, officers say it is their last resort and is only there to keep the bad guys at bay till a rifle can be found. Most people are only fair shots with a handgun myself included. That leaves rifles. We must determine when the west was wild. Other than a few hearty souls, 1823 was the first real expeditions into the west. By 1890 the Indian wars were over, towns had mass transportation, electricity, phones, telegraphs, and the west was official closed. A 67 year window. From my research the following 5 rifles can vie for top venue.

The muzzle loading Hawkens type rifle used by ALL out west from 1803 till at least the end of the civil war in 1865. The length of time itself make it the winner in my book.

The Springfield trapdoor in both 50-70 and 45-70 was in use from 1866 till well after the west was closed as the military's main rifle.

The Sharpes and Remington single barrel rifles devastated the buffalo herds and forced the Indians onto reservations. The old adage goes " the Sharpes made the west safe for the Winchester shooters"., has merit.

Now the Winchester lever action in both models 1866 and 1873 would find a place on the list.

The last candidate is seldom mentioned. The civil was Sharpes carbine re-chambered to 50-70 government should be on the list. These seldom heard of guns were first issue to the US Calvary, and Texas Rangers. These guns were used by Custer's early command, were used by the Indians at the Little Big Horn, the battle at Big Hole, and countless other skirmishes. After the army was issued the 1873 Springfields, these guns were offered for a free or a minimum sum to any settler that wanted one. Teamsters, settles, gold prospector all had these. Free ammunition was available at any fort if it was to be used for buffalo or Indian.

These are my candidates from my years of research. What say the forum?


Bingo!! Dead on!!
 
I have always reckoned that the
sayin of the "Gun that won the West" was
merely a saying and selling point.

What truly WON the West were the men
behind these guns.
Without doubt the long gun in the hands of the
Early settlers, rancher/farmer KEPT the West.
 
Hey Xfuzz... I am no expert... and don't mean no disrespect to ya. As a matter of fact... I have tremendous respect for you... and what you represent on this forum.

This a great post... and a learnin' experience....

But that is an 1879 Frontier Six Shooter... a .44 WCF (44-40)... and not a Single Action Army (SAA, developed in 1873). The original of that pistola was made by Colt to go along with the 1873 Winchester rifle (also in .44 WCF)... so that a Cowboy could shoot the same cartridge... in his revolver and rifle. Colt and Winchester conspired to do this... (relegating Winchester to rifles... and Colts to handguns) in order to keep Colt from developing a .45 LC rifle. There is more to this story... and maybe Alpo can add to it.... but I am stickin' to it.

Learned something...Many Thanks.
That makes perfect sense considering the
etched panel VS the Standard roll markings.
 
The Sharpes and Remington single barrel rifles devastated the buffalo herds and forced the Indians onto reservations. The old adage goes " the Sharpes made the west safe for the Winchester shooters"., has merit.

Some OU historians agree with you, citing such incidents as the desperate Comanche attack on the buffalo hunters at Adobe Walls, which failed miserably.
 
To expound a little bit in 30-30Remchester's thoughtful summary:

For the time from Lewis & Clark to the Civil war, I'd definitely agree on the muzzle-loading rifle, starting as the hunting and defense tool of the mountain men and then being supplemented by shotguns of the pioneers on the Oregon and California trails; the classic Hawken rifles were actually fairly specialized, and if you visit museums dedicated to the westward movement, you're surprised by how many original eastern Pennsylvania- and Kentucky-style rifles you see on display that accompanied their owners into the West.

After the Civil War, it gets harder to answer clearly, since it depends how you define the "winning" of the West and the most important aspect of it.

Was it won from the Indians? Then the buffalo rifle, the Springfield and the SAA .45 with the 7.5" barrel would be the winners. However, the importance of the Indian wars has been, statistically speaking, much overblown thanks to Hollywood; the vast majority of people settling the West never saw a hostile Indian in their lives.

Was it won by the settlers who stuck to the land and didn't give up during the early hard years? Then probably the shotgun as the most common tool of the farmer to put rabbits and birds on the table to supplement a meager harvest may win.

Or was the West won by the folks who actually imposed a degree of order on the place and allowed "civilization" to develop? Then maybe we should nominate the Winchesters and Colts of lawmen like the Texas Rangers (see picture below).

The question is interesting for a discussion, but I don't think a definite answer is possible.
 

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I'm not an expert or scholar but I think that by sheer numbers (most everyone likely had one), the shotgun would be a contender if not winner in either single or double barrel when it came to frontiersman and settlers of the old west. Settlers more so than frontiersmen.
 
If I can find a picture I'll post the gun that really won the west. . .the 1878 Colt DAA Frontier in 45 cal. Nobody wanted one of those old SAA after they saw one of these. I do agree that the shotgun played a big role. It's just too much trouble to get my old 1876 Parker 10 g double out and try to get it to fit in a photo.
 

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I would say the shotgun. First, the muzzle loading Springfields and Enfields bored out from a rifled .577-.58 to a smoothbore. And let's include the various foreign smoothbore muskets. These were their barrels cut down from approx 40" to 30" or so.

Then later, the double barrel breechloaders were found in many homesteads. I would say the cheaper Belgian imports sold the best.
 
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ABSLOM, brings up an interesting question. Who do you think won the west. Lawmen? Settlers? Indian fighters? Buffalo hunters? Cowboys? Up front let me address the documentary by Ken Burns. A massive amount of research and reading obscure texts, diaries and books, Ken Burns was not an author of any of them. He is not an old west historian. I believe he parroted some old works. The shotgun by wagon train immigrants was often the only gun they had? But what did they do? Simply because you rode a wagon across a portion of the west does not make you the winner of the west. I have read countless books about the subject and have only read about one shotgun, and it was used by Daniel Boone at the Blue Licks fight in Kentucky one time. Bridger, Carson, Meek, Johnson, Fitzpatric, Glass, Custer, The 5th and 7th Calvary, Adobe walls defenders, Alamo defenders, Beecher Island combatants, Smith, Dixon, Texas Rangers, Arizona Rangers, Native American defenders at the Little Big horn and Big Hole, Thornburg, Leonard, Bass, Cassity, Bonney, Garrett, Mayer, Tobin and Marteniz to name but a few have been written about extensively and not a single shotgun was mentioned. All had rifles and seldom a mention of a handgun. I have never heard of a mountain man that used a shotgun, nor have I ever heard of an elk, buffalo, mountain sheep, goat or moose ever shot with a shotgun in the western era. One wagon train diary stated that they FINALLY shot an antelope with a shotgun. I have talked guns with scads of old ranchers and not a one mentioned one. I do not believe everything I hear or read and often research for myself. But as ABSLOM asked, who do you think won the west? If your believe are the settlers then maybe the shotgun should be considered. But if you believe it was a combination of prospect's, lawmen, soldiers, cattlemen, sheep men, railroad builders, meat hunters, and ruffians then the gun must be a rifle. And by the way, everyone out west was not a cowboy. There were far more store owners out west than cowboys. And most of these were not armed as a single load noise would stampede the herd.
 
Actually... I did a little more research... and found that Colt's pistol (the 1879 was made to fire the Winchester .44 WCF)... but Colt did not really want to make a rifle to fire the .45 LC. However... rumors had it that Winchester was in the process of turning out a revolver to fire the 44-40... same as their rifle. Colt produced their pistol first (1879 .44-40 Frontier Six Shooter).

Anyways... in order to head 'em off at the pass... Colt produced the short-lived 1883 Burgess rifle... a .45LC rifle... to scare off Winchester from ever producin' their .45LC pistol.... here is the story... a real-life gentleman's agreement...

American Rifleman | Burgess Rifle: Greatness Shortlived
 
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