The L frame action

[lppd4]

I'm not sure this is the right forum for this question/discussion but here goes anyway. I have S&W 's in all frame sizes up to the N frame. All of them have had at least a little tuning. maybe just a reduced trigger return spring and a reduced power mainspring. The L frame Smith's action is the best of my bunch anyway. Others are good but my 586 and 686 are downright phenomenal. Aren't most of the action parts interchangeable? is the internal geometry different making the L frame optimal? What else could cause such a noticeable difference?

 

[Lowa]

The L frame cylinder is much beefier.

There is physics behind the differing trigger pull. The trigger and each part of your finger are levers. The angles, lengths, and resistance at each point change the functional weight and feel of the pull. Ancient Greek engineering is known for their mastery of pulleys and levers. Advanced mathematics can calculate it exactly, but you can feel the difference.

 

[Jeep 1]

Are you saying the rotational mass of the cylinder causes the trigger parts to feel better?

Wouldn't the even more massive N frame cylinder feel even better?

I used to shoot competition back in my younger years.
I have a 686 no Dash with more than 150,000 rounds down the pipe and has been dry fired close to twice that amount.
Before I went to the 686 I had two pythons and could not keep them in time I sending them back to Colt for repairs as quick as I would get the other one back. The 686 is by far the perfect storm and not many guns can have that said about them.

 

[CALREB]

I know probably 99% of the PPC revolvers I have seen are on k-frames. I have handled a few L-frame ones and honestly they felt the same as the K frames. These were all custom guns built by some of the best revolver smiths in the country (Jones, Tanaka, Davis and Jim Rae of the P/C, who did all my wife's guns. Theoretically since your finger is providing the push to lift or rotate the cylinder a K-frame should be easier or feel lighter since it weighs less than an L-frame cylinder. A longer hand and taller hammer are the only differences I can think of. Maybe the studs and pins are in slightly different places causing different geometry I don't know. I bet if you felt an L-frame done by any of the best guys it would feel the same as an K-frame. I think my K-frame Davis gun is 30 years old this year. Haven't put many rounds through it since I retired, but its got to have way over 250,000 through it. And like 10 times that dry firing. My wife used to complain, just make the clicking stop. Till we got a bigger house. She didn't do a lot of dry firing.

A couple hands, 1 extractor, 1 cylinder (was trying to improve group size)some springs , some hammer noses( never had one break, just was cautious). that's it. I would think shooting only wadcutters and dry firing on empty brass helped the longevity. I was always careful not to over clean and use a good lube (Militech-1).

If I was going to shoot anything more powerful that much, I would switch to an L-frame. There were a lot of shooters who used L-frames for all the duty type matches Distinguished, 4" and 2.5" matches besides being very accurate I'm sure the extra weight was nice.

 

[sheppard]

The L frame trigger-hammer interaction was designed to be superior for DA shooting. This was discussed in an American Rifleman article back in 1981 right after the 586 was introduced.

 

[Protocall_Design]

All of them (K,L,N) can be made very nice by someone who knows the ropes. They are all essentially the same action with minor differences in part size. The differences are mostly individual guns, rather than frame size.

 

[oysterer]

Interesting....I think all this explains why nothing can compare to a real great trigger job on an N-frame.

 

[BabaBlueJay]

The 686 has the best trigger pull of all time in my very biased opinion. Nothing even comes close, especially in single action.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

The only 2 L frame guns I like are my 696 and 686 mtn gun. I dislike the look and feel of the 586's and 686's......I have a almost new 4" nickel 586 no dash. That I bought NIB when they first came. Haven't fired it in years.
IF they had made them without that useless stupid full underlug I would probably like that frame size better.

 

[colt_saa]

is the internal geometry different making the L frame optimal? What else could cause such a noticeable difference?

Just the luck of the draw.

The Actions across all four frame sizes are essentially the same

Polishing of the parts and how they fit into each other is the most important factor

Take one of your revolvers that you think is inferior and dry fire it while watching the evening news. Do this for a month and it will be the smoothest action that you own

Having learned to shoot on N-frames more than 4 decades ago, I was not moved or impressed when the L-frame came out. There was nothing it did that my Model 27s could not already do.

I did eventually buy an L-frame, a 586 L-Comp.

That revolver probably only makes it to the range once a year, if that. However,there is an N-frame in my range bag when I shoot every Tuesday and those N-frames throw lots of lead down range annually

This week we were shooting my Model 327 TRR8 two tone.

IF they had made them without that useless stupid full underlug I would probably like that frame size better.

I agree

On the 4" and longer barrels it just looks like the L-frames have Python Envy

 

[Texjack]

My 586 (no dash) has the best double-action trigger I have ever felt. Personally, I prefer the look and feel of the full underlug barrel. The older L-frames are unbeatable, much better than those expensive revolvers with the prancing ponies!

 

[Piwo]

The L frame trigger-hammer interaction was designed to be superior for DA shooting. This was discussed in an American Rifleman article back in 1981 right after the 586 was introduced.

I remember that article. It is the article that made me want to get one. I believe that article said the factory "optimized the trigger for double action use." I think that you can make all Smith and Wesson triggers slick. But I also think that the different size guns feel better for different sized hands and strength. The L frame 4 inch feels like an extension of my hand and the trigger action of my L frames feel the best for me. Not that the other sizes are that much different. Its just that The L frame has a slight edge.

 

[RetCapt]

My 586 (no dash) has the best double-action trigger I have ever felt. Personally, I prefer the look and feel of the full underlug barrel. The older L-frames are unbeatable, much better than those expensive revolvers with the prancing ponies!

I have one of "those expensive revolvers with the prancing ponies" with a 6" bbl. It was my leg competition gun back when I was shooting PPC. I was fortunate in that it never went out of time. Still have it because I don't believe in getting rid of great guns. I had had the action done by a gunsmith, and the DA pull (the only way I shoot) is extremely light and smooth.

As good as that Python action is, the action on my customized competition 6" L frame is better. Just as smooth as the snake, but lighter.

I still have my S&W 27-2, which was my last personally owned duty revolver. For duty use though, I preferred our issued 4" 686s. I like revolvers to be muzzle-heavy as there is less disruption of the sight picture for repeat shots. My competition L frame is extremely muzzle-heavy plus it has an integral compensator. .38 wadcutters feel like .22 rimfires.

My reaction going back to when the L frames were first introduced was that S&W had really nailed it in a .357 revolver. Less bulk than the N frame, more muscle than the K frame.

Then and now, I think they are S&W perfection.

 

[crstrode]

The only L-frame I've ever shot is my personal gun. Compared to any other revolver I've used, it's trigger action and feel is jaw-dropping.

I picked it up in a pawn shop about 40 years ago, and still recall how sublime it felt compared to my other revolvers - there was no way I could leave without it. As I recall, I paid $240 for it, a 686 no-dash without the firing pin bushing mod. I do not know if it has had any work done, but to this day the trigger is down right orgasmic.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

Just the luck of the draw.

The Actions across all four frame sizes are essentially the same

Polishing of the parts and how they fit into each other is the most important factor

Take one of your revolvers that you think is inferior and dry fire it while watching the evening news. Do this for a month and it will be the smoothest action that you own

Having learned to shoot on N-frames more than 4 decades ago, I was not moved or impressed when the L-frame came out. There was nothing it did that my Model 27s could not already do.

I did eventually buy an L-frame, a 586 L-Comp.

That revolver probably only makes it to the range once a year, if that. However,there is an N-frame in my range bag when I shoot every Tuesday and those N-frames throw lots of lead down range annually

This week we were shooting my Model 327 TRR8 two tone.

I agree

On the 4" and longer barrels it just looks like the L-frames have Python Envy

If i had a 4 in. 686 I would get someone to thin the rib and mill 2 slots in it.

 

[H Richard]

I have a no dash 686 I bought in 1984, and I have no idea how many rounds have been through it. When I sent it in for the hammer nose bushing recall in ? 85 or 86 i sent it to a friend and S&W authorized repair person, Mike Stuckschlager in Great Falls MT. Mike did me a favor and put his "touch" on the action, and it remains as good today. I only wish Mike was still with us.

It's never had a red dot or laser on it, and the Hogue grips have also been on it since 1987.

 

[K Frame Keith]

My 686 no dash was worked over by a friend who was a S&W police armorer in the eighties. It has the best action of all my Smiths.

 

[BabaBlueJay]

The only L-frame I've ever shot is my personal gun. Compared to any other revolver I've used, it's trigger action and feel is jaw-dropping.

I picked it up in a pawn shop about 40 years ago, and still recall how sublime it felt compared to my other revolvers - there was no way I could leave without it. As I recall, I paid $240 for it, a 686 no-dash without the firing pin bushing mod. I do not know if it has had any work done, but to this day the trigger is down right orgasmic.

I have one serious problem with the 686 trigger... It has ruined all other handguns for me hahahahah. Seriously though, I have traded in every other hand gun I tried because they are just disappointing compared to the 686, it is just that darn good... I feel for those who have not had the joy of shooting a 686, it is the definition of joyous.

 

[Lowa]

Are you saying the rotational mass of the cylinder causes the trigger parts to feel better?

Wouldn't the even more massive N frame cylinder feel even better?

"Better" is subjective. I'm saying the differences on every single part, including angles.based on your grip, the stocks, weight balance of the gun, barrel length, etc all change the feel of the trigger.

Two triggers can be mechanically perfectly identical, but a difference in weight distribution because of the frame, barrel, cylinder, stocks, or any combination of those will change the feel of the trigger. Those variables change the physics of the trigger pull. Just like shooting from a rest changes how you can grip and how you can pull the trigger

 

[xray 99]

I have a no dash 686 I bought in 1984, and I have no idea how many rounds have been through it. When I sent it in for the hammer nose bushing recall in ? 85 or 86 i sent it to a friend and S&W authorized repair person, Mike Stuckschlager in Great Falls MT. Mike did me a favor and put his "touch" on the action, and it remains as good today. I only wish Mike was still with us.

It's never had a red dot or laser on it, and the Hogue grips have also been on it since 1987.

Nice gun, nice story.