The last ".357"

[DCWilson]

Just looking in to Mr Wohlforth, if he turns out to be correct. Please let me know, I pass by his final resting spot every so often. I will see if I can locate his head stone for you. I dont think its a very large place and I can try.


This might be of interest

Robert Wadsworth in the 1940 Census | Ancestry.com

Good catch. I wish I had thought about that option. Wadsworth is indeed a candidate last name, and the fact that this guy lives in West Hartford makes him a better candidate than Wohlforth, geographicaly speaking. His profession is Insurance Underwriter, which doesn't immediately speak to any special pull in wartime, but maybe he had a back-channel relationship with the Wessons; Springfield was just a few miles up the road.

If the billing address on the invoice is 39 Stratford Road, this is the guy.

 

[29-1]

This is indeed interesting research that the SWHF will need to get involved in.

Chuck, I corresponded with Bill Cross awhile back on this gun. I think he was confident records do exist on this gun, but are in with the war time records that the SWHF has not yet digitized.

Chad

Chad, ok, so let's hope Roy or some of the other .357 guru's in the SWCA turn something up on this interesting revolver as it certainly deserves to have it's story told if at all possible. It is for some of us what keeps the interest level up with S&W collecting.
Chuck

 

[RKmesa]

The Rest of the Story...Current Edition

Chad:

OK - I get that we all want to know the original rest of the story on who, how, and why the gun was shipped in the middle of a world war.... BUT, I would like to know the current rest of the story as to how such a cool gun came to Chad in the middle of 2013. How did you find that beauty?

 

[Texas Star]

This is probably a dumb question (I'm not a specialist collector) but why would S&W designate N-frame Magna grips by model, if these were from a 1917 .45?

Wouldn't there just be a supply of N-frame grips, and they'd grab whatever was needed for production and fit them to the guns made that day? (Regardless of model.)

Also, the name used may be fictitious, if the gun was for a clandestine purpose. But it seems more likely they'd have used a less dstinctive name for a "cover".

Finally, the name may be real, but the recepint might have been a foreigner. Still, if the gun was still un the USA after all these years and not found in, say, Sweden, that's less likely.

This is a most interesting gun, with a story that is still partially hidden.

Thanks to the OP for the photos and the story. And to the remarkable David Wilson who astounds yet again with his research.

 

[BCDWYO]

Chad:

OK - I get that we all want to know the original rest of the story on who, how, and why the gun was shipped in the middle of a world war.... BUT, I would like to know the current rest of the story as to how such a cool gun came to Chad in the middle of 2013. How did you find that beauty?

This is exactly what I was wondering...where has this gun been RECENTLY?

 

[RKmesa]

More Questions????

Chad's 357 made me go back to the "penultimate 357" thread and I noted that the "Roettinger 357" was SN 62485 and shipped on May 12, 1942 (see post 214 of this thread)

http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-ha...-penultimate-pre-postwar-magnum-mexico-6.html

And if 62489 is the last "Pre End of the War 357", is the Roettinger 357 really the Penultimate "Pre End of the War 357"? And if so, I wonder what happened to SN 62486-62488?

 

[opoefc]

Chad, Very cool gun! There were probably a couple doz, at least, of various models of special order guns made up and shipped during WW2 by the Service Dep't. at S&W. That dep't operated separate from the main production effort to turn out Victory Models and was not controlled by the Army, and there will be memo. notes, order instructions, etc. in the 1943 archived paper at the CVHM for your gun.
Suggestion: Look for the elusive Mr. Wallswait in the 1943 West Hartford telephone & business directories, the local tax rolls of property owners; the Vet's Admin. lists of WW1 Vets; Area WW2 Draft Card names; the membership rolls of local fraternities such as Masons, Odd Fellows, Elks, etc ; employee records of area war plants; and West Hartford newspaper morgues for any mention of the name, or close spellings, such as "Wadsworth." Good luck, Ed.

 

[kwill1911]

Good catch. I wish I had thought about that option. Wadsworth is indeed a candidate last name, and the fact that this guy lives in West Hartford makes him a better candidate than Wohlforth, geographicaly speaking. His profession is Insurance Underwriter, which doesn't immediately speak to any special pull in wartime, but maybe he had a back-channel relationship with the Wessons; Springfield was just a few miles up the road.

If the billing address on the invoice is 39 Stratford Road, this is the guy.

Chad,

Is the letter you posted a recent one? When I entered the gun in my database several years ago, I had the name as Robert Wadsworth. I don't know if I have a copy of that letter--still looking for it.

Regards,
Kevin Williams

 

[wbraswell]

Super cool gun and thread. Just one of the reasons I like it here.

 

[calmex]

Chad's 357 made me go back to the "penultimate 357" thread and I noted that the "Roettinger 357" was SN 62485 and shipped on May 12, 1942 (see post 214 of this thread)

http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-ha...-penultimate-pre-postwar-magnum-mexico-6.html

And if 62489 is the last "Pre End of the War 357", is the Roettinger 357 really the Penultimate "Pre End of the War 357"? And if so, I wonder what happened to SN 62486-62488?

I went to my safe and asked the Roettinger .357 exactly that question, but it isn't telling me anything. It's just sitting there looking smug, and a lot more combat worn than 62489, which looks pretty near immaculate.

 

[gripper]

Chad,

Is the letter you posted a recent one? When I entered the gun in my database several years ago, I had the name as Robert Wadsworth. I don't know if I have a copy of that letter--still looking for it.

Regards,
Kevin Williams

Kevin, No, the letter isn't recent. Ray Cheely lettered the gun back in 1990 and it has been in his collection ever since. There may have been a more recent letter that showed delivery to a Robert Wadsworth, I just don't have it.

For those asking where the gun has been all these years the above sums it up for the last 23 years. I believe Ray Cheely purchased the gun from Ray Brazille back in 1990. I have not spoken with Ray Brazille if he remembers where he found it.....I will ask the next time I see him.

Chad

 

[A10]

What a spectacular gun, congratulations on owning a piece of history! I have often thought that a 4.5" RM would be the perfect gun, and now I must recalibrate. THAT 4.5" .357 is the perfect gun!

 

[gripper]

Chad, Very cool gun! There were probably a couple doz, at least, of various models of special order guns made up and shipped during WW2 by the Service Dep't. at S&W. That dep't operated separate from the main production effort to turn out Victory Models and was not controlled by the Army, and there will be memo. notes, order instructions, etc. in the 1943 archived paper at the CVHM for your gun.
Suggestion: Look for the elusive Mr. Wallswait in the 1943 West Hartford telephone & business directories, the local tax rolls of property owners; the Vet's Admin. lists of WW1 Vets; Area WW2 Draft Card names; the membership rolls of local fraternities such as Masons, Odd Fellows, Elks, etc ; employee records of area war plants; and West Hartford newspaper morgues for any mention of the name, or close spellings. Good luck, Ed.

Ed, Thanks for the info!

Chad

 

[mikepriwer]

For those of you interested in 4 1/2" registered magnums, here are two that I own.

There were probably a couple doz, at least, of various models of special order guns made up and shipped during WW2 by the Service Dep't. at S&W. Ed C

Indeed there were. Here is one that went to Ed McGivern, in early 1945. Its a 2-inch
target Victory.

Regards, Mike Priwer

 

[mikepriwer]

Wadsworth is a curious candidate name, because it is very well known in Hartford, CT.
The Wadsworth Atheneum and the Museum are named after that family. Perhaps there
are other places, as well. I would be surprised if he was also into registered magnums.
The name has somewhat the same connotation as Stephen Austin in Austin, TX.
But - one never knows.

Mike Priwer

 

[gripper]

Wadsworth is a curious candidate name, because it is very well known in Hartford, CT.
The Wadsworth Atheneum and the Museum are named after that family. Perhaps there
are other places, as well. I would be surprised if he was also into registered magnums.
The name has somewhat the same connotation as Stephen Austin in Austin, TX.
But - one never knows.

Mike Priwer

Mike, Your exactly right..... One never knows.
I ask Roy on the SWCA side of the forum if he would reverify the recipient of the gun. Maybe we will know who to research if he comes through with a name.

Chad

 

[Jebus35745]

Guns like this are why I love this forum. Thats a super gun and the 4 1/2" barrel length certainly has a neat look to it. Congradulations on finding such a rare gun. Larry

 

[BAM-BAM]

Just wanted to say...."Great thread" like reading a good mystery!

Can't wait to see how it ends..........who was the mystery buyer? Why did S&W build him a custom gun in 1943? I would have guessed a General officer off to Europe....... but the gun is too pristine...... what is the story?

Also; I really like the looks of a 4 1/2 inch barrel on an N frame. The proportions remind me of a 4 inch K-frame!

While I would love a 3 1/2 inch 27....... my 4 inch 28 has really grown on me over the years...and while the 5 inch looks and balances just right.... these pics of 4 1/2 inch guns in this thread are really nice!

 

[handejector]

Chad
The grips on your RM with that serial number would have been from a Commercial
1917 If you look close at the grip I think the number is 207 not 202 I have a 1917
that is 207XXX and it was shipped at the end of 1940 when they stopped shipping
commercial guns. so when they got the order for the RM they went and found a spare pair of grips from a 1917. Just my idea of how the grips ended up on the RM.
Jim

I think Jim is exactly right.

 

[handejector]

This is probably a dumb question (I'm not a specialist collector) but why would S&W designate N-frame Magna grips by model, if these were from a 1917 .45?

Wouldn't there just be a supply of N-frame grips, and they'd grab whatever was needed for production and fit them to the guns made that day? (Regardless of model.)

The grips were not designated by model.
We just know they were made for a 1917 because of the high serial number.
There were THREE N frame serial # series-
1> Regular N frames were numbered in the original 44 HE series that went to 62,000 +
44
38/44 HD & OD
357

2> 455 series- 1- 74,000 +
both Tl and 2nd Mods

3> 1917s- 1-about 208-209,000 pre-war

So, those grips had to be numbered to match a 1917.