the LIGHTEST weight most easily concealed pocket pistol

[Delos]

wrong again

A .38 SPL produces about 200 ft-lb muzzle energy from a 6" barrel, compared to 9x19mm, which produces approximately 400 ft-lb from a 4" barrel. .40 S&W and .45 ACP are in the same ball park as 9 mm.

Plain vanilla .38 SPL packs a real wallop of recoil in a 15 oz revolver because there's no action to spread out the momentum. The recoil of a pistol is spread out over about 1/10 second as the slide flies back, which reduces the felt recoil significantly.

Do it again. This time use +P 38 special (That every steel frame has always used) and the same bullet weight for each caliber.

Many years ago there were articles that argued with Jeff Cooper claiming the 9mm is/was better than the 45 auto. The kinetic energy formula always gives the fastest bullet the edge because the velocity is squared. Somehow it never works out in the real world. Several years back the police who raid drug labs claimed the 40 cal works a lot better on pitbull dogs. They started a trend. The 45 cal is legendary. A person could be creative and make an aluminum core 45 caliber bullet at 125 grain weight, but you would fine it lacking.

I have heard of people who went Bear Hunting in Alaska with the AR15 military round when it was new. Didn't work out well.

 

[Delos]

38 spec 9mm and 45 auto

A .38 SPL produces about 200 ft-lb muzzle energy from a 6" barrel, compared to 9x19mm, which produces approximately 400 ft-lb from a 4" barrel. .40 S&W and .45 ACP are in the same ball park as 9 mm.

Plain vanilla .38 SPL packs a real wallop of recoil in a 15 oz revolver because there's no action to spread out the momentum. The recoil of a pistol is spread out over about 1/10 second as the slide flies back, which reduces the felt recoil significantly.

Let me do this one more time in another way. You said that 9mm and 45 were the same kinetic energy.

My Speer Reloading Manual Number Nine has some pages on test fires they did on various cartridges in various handguns:

"Velocities of Commercial Cartridges"

Page 433 - S&W auto 4 inch barrel - 9mm - 125 grain bullet - 1109 feet per second.

Page 434 - S&W rev 6 inch barrel - 38 special - 125 grain bullet - 1160 feet per second.

Page 435 - Colt auto 5 inch barrel - 45 auto - 190 grain bullet - 1007 feet per second.

When we do this again be prepared to discuss why hunters prefer 180 or 200 or more grain bullet weights when hunting elk, moose, or bear.

Be prepared to discuss the old tests where leather jackets prevented hollow point bullets from opening up. (Filled up the hollow point).

A 45 auto always makes at least a 45 caliber hole. I have forgotten but that is over twice as big as a 9mm. Remember the area of a circle is Pi R Square. If you draw a ½ inch square on paper and divide it again into 4 squares each ¼ inch or .25 caliber you get the idea. 25 caliber is 4 times smaller than 50 caliber. A one inch water pipe is 4 times smaller than a 2 inch water pipe. Area and Volume math is another dimension. Pour your 9mm barrel full of baby oil and compare what you pour out with a 45 auto barrel full of baby oil. In piston engines that is called cubic inches displacement.

And maybe carpenters hammers are too heavy. Maybe we could make much lighter faster hammers (longer handles?) with more kinetic energy so they could build houses faster with the same nails and 2x4 boards. Maybe the best all around hammer is a tack hammer?

Yes I am old and have a thick head. But I love to hear about new stuff that works. Please lets continue. It helps me review old books and new products. And I really want to know what you like best and why. When anyone convinces me of something new I am really happy. Unfortunately my hands remember revolvers and love them.
I just touched my wife, one of my revolvers, and one of my semi autos. Yes my wife and my revolver feels the best even to my index finger.

 

[RussC]

Hi all I looking for my next gun of course I am in a toss up. I am looking for a pocket pistol for summer time. I bought a S&W Shield 9mm and had it for about 30 seconds then my better half confiscated it and now I just longingly get to look at it in her purse.

I am in between another shield 40 cal or a 340PD or 360 something I can toss in my pocket. I have a Chiappa 200DS I like but its no Smith.

I dont want a 380 kel tec or anything like that.

Sam

I own a Shield and she is on the bigger side for pocket conceal.


If you are into 1911 Sig 938 is a wonderful 9 mm you can easily pocket and the recoil is very manageable.

I have shot or owned most major brand single stack 9mm and I like the Sig 938 and Shield.

I would wait buying until DC figures out what they are going to do with regard to gun control.

The unknown is just driving prices up beyond what is reasonable. As much as I enjoy my Shield it is not worth $750 but there are enough freaked out folks that have a hole in their pocket and money comes easy or they live the American Dream with plastic that are paying nearly twice retail.

Russ

 

[lylefk]

+1 on both the p938 and the xds. I own both.

If you want LIGHT, how about a Ruger LCP? They now have a lighter trigger and small sights built into the slide. Load it with FMJ and do the +1 mag mod and maybe the wolf spring

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2

 

[MrJeep]

Well.... I've tried many of the guns mentioned. It all comes down to how you want to compromise and in what direction.

Ideal for CC is the perfect combination of size, weight, capacity and power. Problem is perfection doesn't exist. The Shield your wife absconded with is about as close as it gets in either 40 or 9mm. Another option with dimensions almost identical to the Shield but with more power is the Springfield XDs in 45 ACP (the Shield weighs 19oz, the XDs about an ounce and a half more). The problem today is they are equally difficult to find but worth the wait...

If your butt is ever on the line you'll be glad you didn't settle for less either in quality or caliber...

Just sayin'......

I really like the XD-S .45, it'll be my next family member...soon!

 

[CMD-KY]

I carry the 340PD everywhere, every day. Uncle Mike's pocket holster works well. I shot several rounds of .357, never again; second shots are difficult.

 

[OLDSTER]

pocket pistol

you said "pistol", so I assume that means a pocket semi-auto. IMO it's really tough to beat Kahr. Design, quality, size, lethality.

 

[clang444]

If you want to go old school, I've got a Walther Model 9 that only weighs about 9 ounces empty. It will fit in a 2" x 4" box. It's a little bit smaller than a Baby Browning.

I'm not sure I would ever want to use it for protection, but small and light it is.

 

[Samsonxd]

Hi guys thanks for all the great info I am still leaning towards the 340 or 360 with steel cylinder. I need a j frame too though and just like a reliable pistol for pocket carry. Any good deals out there anyone wants to direct my way.

 

[hotrod150]

If you';re gonna shoot 38's, why not buy an airweight 442/642 or 637, or older 37? Only a couple ounces more than the unobtainium (or whatever) revolvers and much lower priced. My first real-life everyday carry gun was a Ruger LCP. Easy to pocket carry & unnoticable, but I decided after a while that it just wasn't much gun and wasn't esp easy to make good hits with. I bumped up to a 2" j-frame 38, which throws 75% more bullet (158 gr lead HP) at about the same velocity as the 380's 90 grainers. I like a vintage steel-framed model 36 (or stainless 60) carried A-IWB, but if I pocket-carried a vintage airweight model 37 (or modern 442) would get the nod.

 

[GoFasters]

I'd go 360PD, it's a great tool that you can carry daily and not even notice it. Take it to the range, learn where it hits, find ammo that you can control and won't jump crimp, live happily ever after...

 

[BobsInfo]

Just sold my 340PD and am getting the 360PD. . . I found I did not like not having a hammer..

 

[Ky Bob]

I love my Ruger LCR in a Ghould & Goodrich ankle holster...... So light I can hardly tell I'm wearing it and catch myself always reaching down to make sure it's still there!

 

[gertieguy]

If you can find one: yes a SW 432PD- 32 H&R Mag- would not want to be on the wrong end. Low recoil, about 13 oz, easy to carry, ammo is cheaper than anything else right now. Have CT laser grips and have an APEX trigger kit in it.
Good writeup: Range Report: S&W 432PD - The Firing Line Forums

 

[jakerson9]

They used to say about software... Good, Cheap, Fast... pick any two.

When it comes to smaller handguns: Powerful, High-Quality, Small, Available, Cheap - pick any three. I think the Keltec PF9 is adequately powerful, and inexpensive, but I sold mine... I think the Kimber Solo is great quality, and powerful, but I won't pay what they're asking. I've got a 442 because it is reasonably powerful, good quality, and reasonably cheap. I've had a Beretta Nano that was probably all 3, I REALLY liked that pistol and it was incredibly accurate for such a small firearm, but it was too small for my hands. I've got a Diamondback that has been flawless for me, but my wife gets FTF's with it... and a 380 is nothing that I'd want to get shot with, but it isn't as powerful as a 9mm, 38, 357, 44 or 45.
So - given availability issues, the trick is finding the right firearms in stock...
I snooped real quick at Gallery of Guns, but they had ZERO in stock firearms of .38, .357, or 44sp caliber. ( I looked at the 44sp because they're good on the "Hammer of THOR" measurement")
Here are some in stock as of right now:
Grabagun has the S&W 60, 357 in a 22oz package for $586
They've got the S&W 442, 38sp+p, 15oz for $386 Grabagun also has the Beretta Nano for $378 or so.

Impact Guns has a selection of what they call "small carry guns."

Finally - this might be a controversial thing to say on an S&W board, but I'm going to make a couple of other suggestions... If you want small, light, concealable, reasonably powerful and cheap - I'd suggest giving consideration to the CZ82 or Polish 64 in 9mm Makarov. It is an uncommon caliber compared to the rest - but , it generally is a surplus firearm, but the CZ82 is really good quality and both it and the other Makarov pistols are no-nonsense reliable firearms. Best of all, some of them are available. You can get the Polish 64's in stock at Classic Firearms for $229. The CZ82, with its doublestack 12rd mag is listed there, but out of stock... and out of stock everywhere else I checked too... Aim Surplus $209, out of stock, $232 at Wideners with 2mags and a holster, but I think it is out of stock... etc.

Finally - if these aren't selections that you like... Check out your LOCAL stores. Lots of smaller revolvers and smaller pistols get returned with very little use because people misjudge the recoil, misjudge the time that it takes to acquire skill with a small revolver or pistol. It does take time to get skilled with a 442. It isn't fun to fire a bunch of 158gr 38special +p ammo through it. Lots of small revolvers will find their way back to the stores that sold them because "my wife didn't like it" or "I couldn't learn how to shoot it" or "I decided to get a glock 26 instead." You might find a bargain locally.

 

[TheMystro]

My NAA Pug in 22mag loaded with 5 PDX1 is my gun that goes anywhere. It has also put down more deer than most people's rifle from road strikes and final kill shots when hunting. I am pretty accurate with it.

 

[NEURON]

THE BEST OF THE BEST.

Look for a 342 with a Scandium cylinder. Mine fully loaded in a Galco Ankle Lite holster weights 18.4 oz. I believe the gun empty is around 12oz.

This is as good as it gets! No hammer to snag, you can shoot it inside your pocket if the need arises. +P .38's are all you need since the short barrel length really makes 357 Mag a flame thrower with no appreciable increase in velocity.342PD weighs 10.8 ounces. Out of production for some time, replaced by the heavier 38/357 models. Took me a long time to find one and probably paid too much maybe, but on the other hand kit it is truly the best all around CCW gun you can carry with a reasonable chance of coming out of a bad situation intact. I have owned, shot and carried them all and this is my pocket pistol of choice. 380 is really no smaller and not even in the same league as +P 38. I also own a Colt 25 and that is as low as I will go in caliber only because of it diminutive size. Owned several 22 derringers and I would prefer a stick instead. Stick might even be better than the Colt. I wouldn't want to escalate a bad situation by showing 22 or such and having the person pull out a 45 and I don't think that 22 is going to intimidate the 45 holder. I think the 22 etc can give a person a false sense of security. To each his own though.

 

[Col. Kurtz]

Smith & Wesson, 337PD, discontinued but can still be found.
10.5 oz unloaded, .38+p only. Not comfortable to shoot but comforting.
My cell phone is almost the same weight.
I did get to play with a Shield in .40 recently and really liked it. Think I will get one in 9mm as soon as I can find one.

 

[Bluecoat76]

BUY A COLT MUSTANG POCKETLITE 380 AT GUNBROKER OR ANYWHERE YOU CAN FIND ONE. END OF WORRIES.

 

[Chris L.]

Anybody pocket carrying a Shield regularly must either be a pretty big guy, or dresses like a thug or a hick (big time baggy pants/overalls) as I can't seem to manage it gracefully. I occasionally pocket carry my 642 but even that gets too bulky at times.

I know the OP doesn't want to hear it, but comfortable pocket carry for me usually means a .380acp. Pocket carry, although highly convenient, is not the optimal way to go anyway.

I don't know what else to say.