THE MOST IMPORTANT REVELATION I'VE MADE RECENTLY IN CCW

chief38

chief38

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About 2 months ago I made a long awaited decision to buy a Micro 9mm Sig P365. I waited for over a year as Sig had to work out a few issues/defects and it seems they have succeeded as intended. Please also note this is my first and possibly my only Polymer gun I will ever own and I am certainly NO Polymer fan!

For years I carried a S&W M60-7 which always served, functioned and carried flawlessly. Prior to that I carried a M60 no dash and that performed flawlessly as well. So why the change? First off my M60 only holds 5 rounds and my Sig holds 11. Secondly, the unloaded Sig weighs 17.8 ounces and is slightly smaller and thinner than the M60-7 that weights about 20 ounces. Loaded they both weigh the same as the extra cartridges the Sig holds make up the weight differential.

Now I am not writing this Thread to argue back and forth, Revolver vs Semi Auto, .38 Special vs 9mm, 5 rounds vs 11 rounds, etc. Those all figured into my ultimate decision to switch but I will explain the main reason for doing so!

I use to practice with my EDC every few weeks. My usual SD ammo was Buffalo Bore 158 grain +P LSWCHP-GC or Speer 135 grain +P Short Barrel GDHP. Since I am a big pocket carry fan, Rubber Grips are not for me as they are too sticky, bulky and too large for pocket carry. That meant I was using grips that were small and hard which most here know are not very recoil absorbing when shooting stout loads. Because a full practice session started to become painful with SD carry loads I inadvertently decreased my practice sessions with my M60-7. I was aware of what I was doing and not happy either!

When I tried one of my friends Sig P365's and shot 100 rounds through it, I immediately knew that was the answer to my dilemma! Thankfully just about that time when I tried his gun, Sig had finally worked out all the bugs with the P365 and I purchased one. Anyone who has ever shot the new Sig knows that even with 124 grain +P Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel loads, the gun is a pleasure to shoot compared to the M60! Over the last few weeks I've passed the 1,000 round mark without one single failure or malfunction and can easily shoot a few hundred rounds in one session with absolutely no pain at all. When shooting the 124 grain American Eagle FMJ (my practice ammo) I can shoot it all day long with absolutely no pain. Not only am I practicing, but shooting this gun is actually a lot of fun! The sights on the Sig are terrific and the gun is extremely accurate also.

I was at the Range today and I let 2 of my friends (both of which pocket carry M60's daily) shoot my Sig and they are now on the band wagon as well. They said they were going to order their own Sig P365 this week. While I am not planning on becoming a Sig sales person :o, I was just not aware about how much less felt recoil this Sig has over that of my M60 and just how much easier to shoot it is. Couple that together with the fact that the Sig holds 11 rounds of +P 9mm at about 50% more power (370 ft lbs vs 222 ft lbs for the M60) than the Speer 135 grain +P GDHP out of the M60, much better sights, easier to pocket carry, and so far over 1,000 rounds of no failure reliability it was a "no brainer" for me!

So that is my story on the switch and anyone is getting to the point that shooting a small J Frame with stout loads pains them, this might just be the ticket for you. At the very least I would urge you to try one - then judge for yourself. :cool:
 
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I find the P365 easier to carry than the M60. I still prefer my 442pc over either of those. I also shoot the 442 better than the others. Possibly if I ever shoot the Sig as much as I have the J-frame, I may like it as well. I have carried a J-frame of some type since 1980.
 
Good Post

I have always viewed the J-frame Smiths as personal defense weapons usually deployed against one or two individuals at very close range. If you're a current or retired LEO and likely to become involved in a crime committed in your presence, then in my opinion, you need a gun with what I call offensive capability for want of a better term. The higher capacity semi-auto, be it steel or polymer, better fills this role.

The Glock 19 pretty much retired my Smith Model 37 because it was just as easy to carry, carried three times the ammo and was far more effective for me at ranges beyond seven yards.

Once again (I quote this every two months or so) if you have a law enforcement mentality and think you can handle crimes committed in your presence, then I encourage you to Google "Sgt. James O'Sullivan-Radio Shack Robbery--Manhattan, NY."
 
This is similar to why I switched from a 642-1 to my current EDC, a Beretta PX4 Compact. With the 642 I was pretty much limited to 50-70 rounds/session; more than that, especially with +Ps in the mix, and my hand would hurt to the point I'd have to ice it.

With my PX4 I can easily go 200+ rounds/session. While I think quality is more important than quantity when it comes to range practice, there is something to be said for using a more comfortably shootable gun. The DA trigger is also lighter and smoother, but still heavy enough for my needs. And it's only marginally more difficult to conceal with the right gear.

I still use the 642 for the rare occasion I need to pocket carry, or just need something more discreet, and I plan on getting a trigger job done sometime this year, so the snub definitely still has its place.

Capacity was pretty much down near the bottom of my list of priorities.
 
The Lion's Share of my decision to switch was "shootability" and therefore the ability to want to practice often. The 11 rounds on board, better sights and flatter profile were secondary as was the more powerful +P 9mm crop of new cartridges as of late. All in all I look at it as a win win ! :)

After shooting and carrying a M60/M36 in different variants over 40 years daily, I did shoot the J 's very well and was very capable with it. After only 8 weeks I actually shoot the Sig much better!

Not trying to convert people here - just posting to enlighten some that may not realize the true difference. I know I didn't! :o
 
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A week ago today I bought a Glock 43 off a friend so he could buy a Sig P365. I tried to convince him to keep the Glock a short while but he refused. There was another acquaintance there buying a P365 too. He experienced the dead trigger syndrome on his third magazine, less than thirty rounds. He took it apart and cleaned it, and it worked. He got a dead trigger again before he finished 200 rounds. After a second disassembly and cleaning, he ran another hundred through the gun with no issues. He is afraid to carry it as he is a LEO.

The man I bought the Glock from ran three boxes of ammo through his gun with no issues so far.

LEO/First Responder/Military price was $448.00 at my LGS.
 
Glad to hear that worked out for you so well. FWIW, the same thing applies to a variety of small 9mm pistols. I am partial to Kahr myself, due to the DA-like trigger, but there are several good choices depending on preference. Please bear in mind the semis need a bit more caution when pocket carried than does a model 60, for safety purposes, although I am sure you already know that.
 
To me, it boils down to... will that extra live-fire practice actually be helpful in the likely defense scenarios a civilian will face? And is the type of practice being done actually all that applicable to a real world defense scenario?

Just as street-fights rarely resemble the type of training drills and sparring we see in many martial arts studios, defensive shootings usually have very little in common with how most people train and practice or any form of IDPA type competition.

As for shootability, I honestly don't think it likely matters all that much in the context of civilian personal defense. Armed citizens more often lose self-defense encounters due to the gun being inaccessible, the gun being carried in a condition where it's not ready to be fired or due to some type of malfunction, rather than lack of capacity or marksmanship since the distances are so close and the situations almost always being resolved very quickly. "You run out of time before you run out of ammo". Untrained people successfully defend themselves all the time with guns. They just have to be able to get to it, retain it and the gun will do most of the work.

The snubby revolver meets the criteria of always being accessible, quick into action, always ready to fire, retainable and reliable extremely well.
 
My 9mm Shield went to the safe, in favor of the 45 Shield. Getting some information on this very website back around Sept., I did a lot of research on the Sig 365. Bought one in October. It's now may daily carry instead of the 45 Shield, due to it's smaller size, and accuracy like the 45, which I always shot better than the 9mm. The 10 and 12 round capacity doesn't hurt, in my mind, either. The 45 still goes along on any vehicle trips. P.S. Have four snubby revolvers too. Just prefer the 365 for carry.
 
I knew Sig had a hit on its hands when I initially heard about the P365. It is good to hear that yours has been very reliable. I wanted to wait a bit until they got any issues sorted out with the new design. Seems like yours is good to go.
 
armorer951 said:
Wondering if you (OP) considered or tried out the MP Shield 9mm before deciding on the SIG?
Click to expand...

Actually I did. M&P Shield weighs 3 ounces (15%) more than the Sig, it is larger in size, with the standard flush magazine it holds 3 less rounds and to the best of my knowledge the Shield is not +P rated which to me is important with 3.1" bbls. In barrels under 3.5" expansion seems a bit "iffy" or not as complete with standard pressure loads of 124 grain bullets, which I do prefer in 9mm. I use the Speer 124 +P Short Barrel version of the GDHP.

The Sig has way better sights (night sights standard) and is way more pocket carry friendly. I also liked the trigger much better on the Sig and don't particularly care for the two piece version on the M&P. The Shield is a capable gun but at the time I shot it I was not ready to retire my M60-7 for one. After shooting 100 rounds through a friends Sig, I instantly knew it was for me.
 
ColbyBruce said:
A week ago today I bought a Glock 43 off a friend so he could buy a Sig P365. I tried to convince him to keep the Glock a short while but he refused. There was another acquaintance there buying a P365 too. He experienced the dead trigger syndrome on his third magazine, less than thirty rounds. He took it apart and cleaned it, and it worked. He got a dead trigger again before he finished 200 rounds. After a second disassembly and cleaning, he ran another hundred through the gun with no issues. He is afraid to carry it as he is a LEO.

The man I bought the Glock from ran three boxes of ammo through his gun with no issues so far.

LEO/First Responder/Military price was $448.00 at my LGS.
Click to expand...

To the best of my knowledge the initial 1st and 2nd generation problems with the P365 have been solved. I've got 4 close friends ( plus myself which makes 5 pistols ) that own this Sig 3rd generation P365 and collectively we have shot over 6,000 rounds of all types, weights and brands of ammo with zero failures of any kind over the last 4 months. I've personally shot about 1,000 through mine alone!

One of my friends is the manager of a popular Range and shooting school in my area (he is a certified NRA Pistol Instructor there) and the store's rental P365 has over 11,000 documented rounds through it with no failures of any kind - he actually showed me the log they keep of rounds fired, any problems, jams, FTF, cleaning, maintenance and repairs - zero!

That said, any pistol can have problems - including the Glock 43. Do a search and you will find I am not wrong. I can not tell you how many Ed Brown's, Kimber's, Les Behr's, S&W's, etc. that I've seen malfunction on my Clubs Pistol Team! If he has any doubts, he should return it for a check out. I can only report what my personal experience has been with the Sig P365. Not a single malfunction of ANY kind in 1,000 rounds of my personal P365.

Sig claims that they have had less than 1/4 of 1% return rate of ALL generation P365's (including Gen. 1 & 2 which were the problematic versions). They are now reporting that number has been cut by 67% which means for every 10,000 guns shipped, there are only 8 guns returned. I wish I could say the same for other gun Company's!

PRODUCT REVIEW: GLOCK 43... a 6.45% malfunction rate - GunsSaveLife.com | GunsSaveLife.com
 
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