THE MOST IMPORTANT REVELATION I'VE MADE RECENTLY IN CCW

[Wise_A]

url=http://www.gunssavelife.com/product-review-glock-43-a-6-45-malfunction-rate/]PRODUCT REVIEW: GLOCK 43... a 6.45% malfunction rate - GunsSaveLife.com | GunsSaveLife.com[/url]

Here's an excerpt from the "article". The facepalm density is off the chart:

The first problem came in the first magazine of self-defense ammo. A failure to feed four rounds in. Then on the second magazine, another FTF three rounds in. A tap on the rear of the slide brought the gun into battery each time, but I shouldn't have to do that

Thankfully the last three mags ran flawlessly, but I'm concerned: two malfunctions in 31 rounds of Winchester Ranger premium self-defense ammo? That's a 6.45% failure rate. That's worse than the HiPoint 9mm pistol!

Was I limp-wristing it? I doubt it, particularly shooting from two-handed isoceles as an experienced shooter. I can't recall the last malf I had attributable to me limp-wristing any other Glock. Lube issues? I didn't lube it out of the box, but heavy lube is a no-no with Glocks and it didn't "feel" dry in my earlier manipulations with it.

A few mags of 9mm ball (by Aguila) ran fine, but I'm not carrying ball ammo to save my life

*Two stoppages in one batch of 31 rounds does not a bad gun make.
*Maybe the gun just doesn't like Winchester Ranger, dude.
*You just got it, shoot it a bit, see if it evens out.
*I don't give a damn who you are, you can limp-wrist a gun.
*You just spent a paragraph crying about the recoil, so I'm pretty damn sure limp-wristing is on the table.
*You took the gun out of the box, didn't clean/lube it at all, and then shook your tiny fists when the slide didn't close all the way twice. How freakin' spoiled are modern shooters?

It's not that I think Glocks are necessarily paragons of reliability across the board. I just happen to think that these days, most guns are incredibly reliable.

And I guess I find it absolutely hilarious when some semi-literate Cletus grabs a gun off the shelf, spends 45 minutes and less than a box of ammo at the range, and then writes an article bashing the model over two stoppages. No, dude--guns might be easy these days, but they do take some effort.

 

[ColbyBruce]

"To the best of my knowledge the initial 1st and 2nd generation problems with the P365 have been solved."

Consider your knowledge updated, the problems exist among the latest versions. The two guns I wrote about above had 11/18 build dates. I would hope Sig can correct the problems as sales have been affected. I have wanted one since I posted pics here, back in March. I am patient, and I don't have to have one.

 

[fredj338]

You have learned what many of is have been saying for awhile; subcompact 9 is the way to go for most in edc. More rds, better ballistics, easier to get good hits wirh fast, easier to carry. Congratz, wish I could get a p365 on kommifornia.

 

[Roller Delayed]

What I realized after years of trying to break the CC code is that you should carry what you enjoy and what is safe. I went through the same process as the OP, carried a Kahr MK9 for a bit. It was a quality gun, but by the time I got it into a holster that covered the light trigger it wasn't that small anymore. I sold it and went back to putting a P7 in my empty coat pocket.

Having a gun you are competent with is the most important piece of CC. The caliber, capacity, sights, accuracy are all distant seconds to simply having a gun that will fire. Much more important is a gun that is safe for administrative handling and is drop safe, because you are unlikely to ever need the gun, but you are going to be handling it loaded an awful lot in places you can't afford to have an ND.

So if you like a little polymer 9mm and the required holster for the light triggers they have - great. But if you prefer a decocked mousegun or a little revolver because they fit your lifestyle and your preferences - figure out a way to make that work. Practicing mainly with lower recoil .38s might be less than ideal, but it still hones shooting skill and will put the first round on target no faster than +P will.

Firearms are mainly a hobby for most of us. I think if you carry you should still treat it that way - as something done for pleasure that might be useful someday. Your carry piece serves you, not the other way around.

I might consider going back to a subcompact 9 when someone makes a small one with a TDA trigger.

 

[American1776]

Nice write up.

5 rounds of 38 spl in a 2 inch wheelgun was, for a long time, the only truly reliable pocket gun out there. Probably for almost 50 years. Little automatics in 22, 25, 32 and 380 were not always reliable. Same goes for duty sized handguns. The 6 shot 38 / 357, when compared to the automatics of yesteryear, presented far less problems in reliability and ammo selection. (When the ISP went with the model 39 in the 70's, there were some ammo and reliability issues with them as well ---had to load 7 instead of 8 in the magazine).

Today, we have some ultra reliable auto loaders. And they are light weight due to polymer. Auto's today can be made every bit as reliable as a wheelgun, and in some ways, more reliable. (The Beretta m9 will go on average 19,090 rounds before a malfunction---I'm not sure I'd try with with full power loads in a wheelgun without serious maintenance along the way).

Wheelguns do have their advantages. But autoloaders are really getting better and better.

 

[chief38]

That title is misleading. One gun, one shooter is hardly a trend.

I will say there is no other sub compact either new or used that can come close to the P365 in an all around package. Well, no Smith at least.
Size, reliability, capacity, concealment, etc. 12+1 heaven.
The polymer, striker fired haters are silent.
Paid $448+ tax for mine.

Yes, however if you do a search, the G43 has had their share of problems and there are other posts as well - I just posted the first one I came across as my intent was not to start a bash-fest here. Bare in mind Glock owners don't like to talk about failures as they use reliability as a bragging right. While I do not even own one, Glocks (across the board) are probably the best in the reliability dept. I've also personally witnessed failures on the firing line of other Glock models and there are no 100% perfect guns 100% of the time! I've had a few S&W Revolvers fail as well.

My original CCW piece was a M10 2" RB (circa 1980) and would from time to time just lock-up up once in every 100 rounds or so when shot in double action mode (way before the I/L was ever invented). After the Factory tried repairing it 3 times (and failing) they destroyed mine and put my serial number on a new one. I've had Cheif's Specials fail due to broken Rebound Springs, broken Studs, and from time to time a Firing Pin will break. Yet they always say Revolvers are the most reliable!

 

[ladder13]

Yes, however if you do a search, the G43 has had their share of problems and there are other posts as well - I just posted the first one I came across as my intent was not to start a bash-fest here. Bare in mind Glock owners don't like to talk about failures as they use reliability as a bragging right. While I do not even own one, Glocks (across the board) are probably the best in the reliability dept. I've also personally witnessed failures on the firing line of other Glock models and there are no 100% perfect guns 100% of the time! I've had a few S&W Revolvers fail as well.

My original CCW piece was a M10 2" RB (circa 1980) and would from time to time just lock-up up once in every 100 rounds or so when shot in double action mode (way before the I/L was ever invented). After the Factory tried repairing it 3 times (and failing) they destroyed mine and put my serial number on a new one. I've had Cheif's Specials fail due to broken Rebound Springs, broken Studs, and from time to time a Firing Pin will break. Yet they always say Revolvers are the most reliable!

I agree no gun is 100%.

 

[Wise_A]

Yes, however if you do a search, the G43 has had their share of problems and there are other posts as well.

You can google search literally any popular product, and come up with problems. Take a spin up to the revo or semiauto forums.

Gun owners just flip a lid because they remember the "good old days" when "things were made right". Back before the internet gave any silly rube a soapbox upon which to complain that his new S&W Model 41 constantly jams with bulk Remington Thunderbolt.

 

[WCCPHD]

I carried a J frame revolver as a backup, off duty, undercover gun for about forty years. I have carried a few semi-autos, a Kahr PM40, Kahr P380, Kimber Solo or a Walther PPK/S over the years, but always went back to the old standby J frame, whether a 60, 342ti or most recently a 940. I was intrigued by the P365 and finally bought one. I qualified with it and now its my EDC. I have not carried anything else (save while hunting) since qualifying with it. It thinks its a big gun in a small package.

These photos can do a better job of explaining why I retired the 5 shot J frame for a 10/12 shot semi.

 

[Dvan34]

I have an SW MP Shield .40. I went for my annual qualification last Tuesday. I had installed the DP Recoil spring earlier. I was really surprised at the difference. The recoil was really reduced and the 'double- tap" firing was faster. My qualification last year I was hurting after firing 36 rounds. It was not enjoyable. I was wishing that I had bought the .9mm.

 

[two-bit cowboy]

Great review chief38. Thank you. You make a compelling argument.

 

[bub075]

Outstanding write up and I completely agree with your reasoning.

For many years, I carried some form of 5 shot snubbie for backup when on duty at my PD job and off duty. I started out with small autos but moved to the snubbie because I just enjoyed shooting them and, at the time (mid to late '90's), they were smaller and hid better than a lot of the small 9mm autos available at the time. Started when I was poor and broke with a stainless Taurus M85 that I bought used from another Officer. Carried it for a few years without any problems, then sold it to another poor, broke Officer who carried it for quite a while. Moved on to a S&W M649, the first .357 model without the lock. Again, carried it for quite a few years. Then moved on to a Ruger SP101 because the factory rubber/wood grips fit my hand much better than the S&W. I loved my snubbies and had no problem with only having 5 rds, considering that the only time I would be using it was defensively and that I wouldn't have to use them offensively. I was pretty good at reloads and was able to reload with an HKS speedloader faster than most of the guys at my PD reloading an auto.

Quite a few years ago, budget cuts at the PD mandated that we went to only one guy per shift. If you lived in town and were in town, you were expected to be available to go backup the on duty Officer if needed. That was the time that I realized that "running towards the sound of the guns" with a 5 shot snubbie may not be the best option. I reluctantly retired my snubbies from active use and moved on to small autos. I reclaimed my Glock 26 from my wife but it always felt like carrying a brick. When S&W introduced the Shield, I bought the first 9mm example I could find and still carry it. While the Shield isn't quite as good as a full sized gun, I shoot it very well and the 7 rd mag is, IMO, sufficient. When you consider that, for many years, the 1911 was considered my many to be the ultimate carry gun, the Shield has exactly the same capacity. I'm happy with it and have no problem using it for LE use. In fact, I have backed up the on duty Officer quite a few times with just my Shield and had no problems doing so.

The P365 intrigues me. I love the idea, but I HATE Sig as a company with the burning passion of 1000 suns based on a problem I had with a West German P226 I had when I first started in LE and Sig's complete, utter, total disregard and disdain for me when I called them about it. I wish another company had come out with the P365 because I desperately want to try one, but I refuse to even consider buying another Sig. I'm perfectly happy with my Shield for now. If another company comes out with something similar and as compact, I may try it, but Sig is off the table for me.

 

[chief38]

bub075,
I can understand not buying a product from a Company that you got burnt from in the past - been there, done that! The P365 is my first and only Sig and so far no problems so I don't know how they are when it comes to customer service and or repairs (hope I never have to find out either). I have only spoken to them on the phone to get a few questions answered and they were very accommodating to me but that is my only experience with them.

I'd bet that Glock, S&W, Kimber, etc. have been burning the midnight oil and I'm sure there will be competitors to the Sig P365 not too far in the future. Competition is good for us!

 

[rwsmith]

I like steel guns.....

...but polymer is practical. I'm just not going to sit in the bathroom for hours admiring a polymer gun.

 

[Kframerbluvr]

Since I am still active LE, an airweight J frame is strictly a second gun unless my back is acting up. Then it becomes a primary gun pocket carried.
One of the new thin Glock 48s is very tempting for bad back carry. I handled one yesterday at the local cop shop and was impressed. The issue Glock 23 sometimes is too much when my back is complaining. The thought of possibly running (or hobbling) to the sound of gunfire with only a five shot snub gives me the willies.

 

[rock n roll kid]

times, guns change

carried a 38 s&w for over 20 years . went to a glock 43 bout 3 years ago & never looked back. a couple of rounds for the 43 is better plus it is much easier to hit with than thee 38 for me . totally reliable in typical glock fashion . picked up a new 365 2 weeks ago . it shoots fine & my first range session i mixed fmc , hp's , + p & even +p+ in the 8 mags i shot thru it and it ate them all without a bobble . am taking it to an indoor range for more shooting this week-end.
don't get me wrong , the snub has its place for a carry gun . but is is becoming clear in today's world a higher amount of ammo sure isn't a wasted idea . in some ways the snubs time has come & went. it would be good for a back up for your edc gun , but who would ever choose a 5 or 6 shooter over one of the newer auto offerings ? the g43x model is now on the horizon with a 10 shot capacity , but a slighter larger frame dimension over the 43 . lots of good choices abound !
i own a few s&w guns , but the time for change has set a good many of us to re-thinking our choices...... and for very good reasons !

 

[bub075]

bub075,
I can understand not buying a product from a Company that you got burnt from in the past - been there, done that! The P365 is my first and only Sig and so far no problems so I don't know how they are when it comes to customer service and or repairs (hope I never have to find out either). I have only spoken to them on the phone to get a few questions answered and they were very accommodating to me but that is my only experience with them.

I'd bet that Glock, S&W, Kimber, etc. have been burning the midnight oil and I'm sure there will be competitors to the Sig P365 not too far in the future. Competition is good for us!

Chief38, the troubles I had with Sig were with SigArms back in the early 1990's. Sig today is pretty much a totally different company, so I am slowly coming around to rethink my burning hatred of Sig. I am in charge of firearms training and policy at my PD and, up till now, we have never allowed SAO autos. The PD had a Sig P238 forfeited from a court case a few years ago and, let me till you, I REALLY like it. Seemingly too accurate for such a small gun, seemingly reliable and fits me pretty well. I could get away with rewriting policy to allow SAOs for off duty use and I have been sorely tempted a few times to get a P238 for occasional off duty pocket carry when i need a really low profile gun. So I've been conflicted about Sig for some time now. If the P365 continues to be trouble free in reviews, I may take the plunge and try one out. Won't be any time soon, though. My beautiful wife doesn't have much trouble with my gun hobby, but we don't have a ton of money to buy guns with. I bought an M&P 2.0 last year for a duty gun and am planning on building an AR pistol in a few months to use on duty, so a P365 isn't in my future right now. I keep checking reviews, though, especially long term reviews.

As for other companies bringing out a copy, I doubt it anytime soon. If I remember correctly, Sig patented something about the magazine and how they were able to fit so many rounds in so small a package. Unless one of the other companies is able to come up with a workaround, Sig is likely to be it, at least until the patent expires (20 years, I think?)

 

[Old cop]

I still stick w/my 340PD mostly b/c I've not been able to find anything lighter in 9MM, and saving weight is important for my situation. I've been down the .380 road and currently have an older LCP that's been 100% reliable, but being a lefty the mag pops out now and then when pocket carried in almost any holster.

 

[two-bit cowboy]

About 2 months ago I made a long awaited decision to buy a Micro 9mm Sig P365.

In some ways, chief38, I feel you've drawn me into the dark side.

I grabbed my lgs's "only allocated" P365 in brown today (it's the only semi-auto I own). It came with an extended magazine and two standard ones. It's in my pocket, and I barely know it's there. I'll give myself a few days to get used to pocket carrying it, then I'll load it and have a go at the range to learn how it and I perform together.

More to follow....

Thank you.

 

[LPD256]

My last gun purchase was a 3" nickel 36. Mostly to fondle, not to carry. I'm fortunate to have several carry options. One of my buddies and I rented a P365 and put 500 rounds through it. We both liked the gun. We both have 9mm Shields that we frequently carry. I guess we both came up with the thought that while the P365 was nice, we weren't popping for one. Yet......