The Revolver vs. the Pistol for self defense. Which is better?

[flycaster]

"What vivid imaginations must some folks have about personal self defense! Every self defense scenario doesn't involve standing stark naked with empty gun in the midst of a square mile of West Texas flatland with no cover, completely surrounded by a dozen drug-crazed gang members armed with Uzis and Glocks."

You're kidding, right? That's EXACTLY the scenario I'm preparing for! Well, maybe not.

Chuck

 

[Lost Lake]

Better to be prepared for the worst than unprepared. Like I said I fully expect my first five rounds to miss....

 

[bmcgilvray]

Then, miss you will.

 

[Lost Lake]

Then, miss you will.

Yoda like...

 

[Springfeildkid585]

Better to be prepared for the worst than unprepared. Like I said I fully expect my first five rounds to miss....

The trick is practice, if you've ingrained in you're head the scenarios and you're reactions, you won't fall back on panic. It's some what like a situation in which I was awoken to a sudden thud downstairs. I grabbed my .45 from my lock-box confirmed the presence of my brothers and mother in their appropriate rooms, which they were. I racked my slide and the bullet misfed, now at that point I could have panicked, but I fell back on what I knew "Tap, Rack, Engage" the bullet fed and I proceeded to shout "Halt who goes there." All was my practiced plan, just like a fire or tornado, if you have a plan complete with "what if's" panic won't get the best of you. It turned out to be nothing, but in my mind, I believed there was a distinct possibility of an intruder.

 

[Lost Lake]

The trick is practice, if you've ingrained in you're head the scenarios and you're reactions, you won't fall back on panic. It's some what like a situation in which I was awoken to a sudden thud downstairs. I grabbed my .45 from my lock-box confirmed the presence of my brothers and mother in their appropriate rooms, which they were. I racked my slide and the bullet misfed, now at that point I could have panicked, but I fell back on what I knew "Tap, Rack, Engage" the bullet fed and I proceeded to shout "Halt who goes there." All was my practiced plan, just like a fire or tornado, if you have a plan complete with "what if's" panic won't get the best of you. It turned out to be nothing, but in my mind, I believed there was a distinct possibility of an intruder.

I have a little different plan that I have carried out on several occasions. I hear a bump in the night... The last one was a pretty loud bump, a huge poster board fell off the refrigerator and crashed on the floor with pens flying and magnets scattering, I mean it was a CRASH!

I sat up in bed. The watch dog was still sleeping on her cushy comforter my wife put down for her. Was I dreaming? How would the dog not be startled? Oh yeah, she's a sound sleeper. A 28" diameter tree blew down in a storm a month ago and the top branches hit the back porch and threw acorns all over the place, it sounded like a car crashed through the house, and the dog slept through that..... She's not deaf, I mean she can hear her treat box being moved from 200 feet away, on another floor, with the television on. She has selective hearing.

Anyway, back to the crash. I jumped from a sound sleep. My .40 is in the nightstand so I of course nonchalantly moved a leg over and gently kicked my wife in the shin... This is my own version of "Tap, rack and engage".
What? she asked.
Did you hear that crash? I asked her.
No, what was it?
I don't know I said, but something really loud downstairs, REALLY loud.
She got up and went to investigate. I popped open the gun safe just in case. She reported back that the big board fell again and I need to find a better way to attach it.
The dog never moved.

I hope if a burglar ever comes in that he has to move the dog treat box out of his way for something, because then he's dead meat...

 

[ogilvyspecial]

Better to be prepared for the worst than unprepared. Like I said I fully expect my first five rounds to miss....

The first part of the above quote is sound logic and the second half is part of the reason I switched from my Glock 32 to a S&W Model 66 as my primary carry gun, even though the 66 has half the capacity of the G32.

I received a single shot 20 ga. when I was about 13 (1971) and used it for all types of small game until I was 18 or 19, which is when I got a semi-auto 12 ga. After using the 12 exclusively for a few years I switched back & forth between the two, depending on what I was hunting.

A couple of years ago I got to thinking about carrying a revolver for concealed carry and started weighing the pros & cons of this switch and for some reason my hunting experience with the two types of shotguns mentioned above came to me. Not only did I think of it, it was the main reason I switched to a revolver.

My success rate with either the single or semi-auto shotgun was pretty much the same but I found myself expending more shells with the semi than with the single for the same amount of game. When I knew I was limited to only one shot with the single I must have taken that extra half-second before breaking the shot and with the semi I generally scored with my second, and sometimes third round if a shot still presented itself.

Based on that experience I switched over thinking that maybe by having fewer rounds my sub-concious might help me shoot better, a line of logic that may not serve me well, who knows.

When it comes to self defense in a public area my goal isn't only to stop the threat, it's also to ensure the safety of innocent's who may be in that area. These "innocents" might be across a parking lot sitting in a car and I may not even know they are there so I have to act as if they are.

By limiting the number of rounds I have I may keep myself from just pulling up and firing off indiscriminant shots and injuring, or even killing some little kid downrange that I wasn't even aware of, which is something I will do whatever it takes to prevent. To be honest, if I wasn't confident enough in my abilities to hit something with my first shot then I probably wouldn't even pull my gun, especially in a public place. If I didn't have enough confidence that I could hit it in five shots then I might not be carrying a gun to begin with, but that's just me.....

 

[Lost Lake]

The first part of the above quote is sound logic and the second half is part of the reson I switched from my Glock 32 to a S&W Model 66 as my primary carry gun, even though the 66 has half the capacity of the G32.

I received a single shot 20 ga. when I was about 13 (1971) and used it for all types of small game until I was 18 or 19, which is when I got a semi-auto 12 ga. After using the 12 exclusively for a few years I switched back & forth between the two, depending on what I was hunting.

A couple of years ago I got to thinking about carrying a revolver for concealed carry and started weighing the pros & cons of this switch and for some reason my hunting experience with the two types of shotguns mentioned above came to me. Not only did I think of it, it was the main reason I switched to a revolver.

My success rate with either the single or semi-auto shotgun was pretty much the same but I found myself expending more shells with the semi than with the single for the same amount of game. When I knew I was limited to only one shot with the single I must have taken that extra half-second before breaking the shot and with the semi I generally scored with my second, and sometimes third round if a shot still presented itself.

Based on that experience I switched over thinking that maybe by having fewer rounds my sub-concious might help me shoot better, a line of logic that may not serve me well, who knows.

When it comes to self defense in a public area my goal isn't only to stop the threat, it's also to ensure the safety of innocent's who may be in that area. These "innocents" might be across a parking lot sitting in a car and I may not even know they are there so I have to act as if they are.

By limiting the number of rounds I have I may keep myself from just pulling up and firing off indiscriminant shots and injuring, or even killing some little kid downrange that I wasn't even aware of, which is something I will do whatever it takes to prevent. To be honest, if I wasn't confident enough in my abilities to hit something with my first shot then I probably wouldn't even pull my gun, especially in a public place. If I didn't have enough confidence that I could hit it in five shots then I might not be carrying a gun to begin with, but that's just me.....

This forum is just chock full of people better than others!

Read between the lines. Lighten up just a tad. Don't be so quick to point out how superior you are.
I am a Hunter's Safety instructor. I teach gun safety. I'm not about to indiscriminately throw lead around... My main point is and has always been the same: I'm trying to instill the notion that your single shot muzzle loading flintlock pistol just may not be the bad azz weapon you think it is. You may just need more than 5 rounds. If you have 5 and need six, you can be just as dead with that super-cool retro throwback wheel gun.

So you are a more careful shot with your single shot 20 gauge. Don't you think that is a little different than this self-defense scenario? Maybe someone takes your daughter and is driving away, and there you are trying to stop the getaway car... Do you want to try to shoot the tires out with your single shot flintlock or your 5 shot wheel gun or do you want a M-16 with a 30 round mag and two more mags on your hip?

Or maybe you'd take care and not shoot at the getaway car at all for fear you may hit someone with a stray round while your daughter is taken away to some desolate field and slaughtered.

Self defense is self defense. Take care of yourself. You're not going to keep from shooting the bad guy who's on top of your wife jamming a knife repeatedly into her chest because you're in a busy mall. You aim, you shoot. This isn't deer hunting and you need to be sure your background is clear or you can't have a venison sausage for Christmas. This is saving your loved ones from losing their own lives. And your single shot is woefully inadequate for that.

The best answer to this entire question was several posts back by 18DAI when he said you can't shoot a semi-auto from inside a coat pocket twice. That there is thoughtful and excellent advice. Carrying a single shot so when the bad guys attack you'll concentrate on better shooting is just .... Grrrrrrrr.

Good luck to you sir, I think this thread is absolutely stupid except for 18DAI's excellent post, and I am done with it. I hope none of us ever have to try out our theories on which is better and comes up short.

 

[1 old 0311]

This forum is just chock full of people better than others!

Read between the lines. Lighten up just a tad. Don't be so quick to point out how superior you are.
I am a Hunter's Safety instructor. I teach gun safety. I'm not about to indiscriminately throw lead around... My main point is and has always been the same: I'm trying to instill the notion that your single shot muzzle loading flintlock pistol just may not be the bad azz weapon you think it is. You may just need more than 5 rounds. If you have 5 and need six, you can be just as dead with that super-cool retro throwback wheel gun.

So you are a more careful shot with your single shot 20 gauge. Don't you think that is a little different than this self-defense scenario? Maybe someone takes your daughter and is driving away, and there you are trying to stop the getaway car... Do you want to try to shoot the tires out with your single shot flintlock or your 5 shot wheel gun or do you want a M-16 with a 30 round mag and two more mags on your hip?

Or maybe you'd take care and not shoot at the getaway car at all for fear you may hit someone with a stray round while your daughter is taken away to some desolate field and slaughtered.

Self defense is self defense. Take care of yourself. You're not going to keep from shooting the bad guy who's on top of your wife jamming a knife repeatedly into her chest because you're in a busy mall. You aim, you shoot. This isn't deer hunting and you need to be sure your background is clear or you can't have a venison sausage for Christmas. This is saving your loved ones from losing their own lives. And your single shot is woefully inadequate for that.

You teach "HUNTER SAFETY?" Well you do have me there I don't teach "Hunter safety."
I am however a 100% disabled Marine NCO combat Vet who qualified with everything the Marines has from .22 to .50 Ma Duce. In Vietnam, as a Grunt, I had my choice of BUG's. I chose to carry a Model 60. Seemed to serve me well for 2 years in a combat zone but then again it wasn't "HUNTER SAFETY." Maybe the demands, and rigors, of your "HUNTER SAFETY" course would have changed my mind.
We have the VFW where we get together to swap stories. Do you have a "HUNTER SAFETY" organization where you swap tales of ambush, sappers, boobie traps by angry squirrels, and landing in a hot LZ full of angry bunnies where only by the grace of God, and a high cap pistol, kept you from being overrun by woodland creatures?
Do the nightmares keep coming back for you also?

 

[ogilvyspecial]

Carrying a single shot so when the bad guys attack you'll concentrate on better shooting is just .... Grrrrrrrr.

Here is some information on the Model 66 that I mentioned in my post, which you seem to be unfamiliar with since you kept calling it a single shot or "flintlock".

http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-re...ltimate-model-19-66-combat-magnum-thread.html

Before I bow out of this I want to remind you that you, yourself said that you fully expect to miss with the first five shots.
I didn't..

One last thing, please be careful if ever trying to save your wife or daughter/child from the type of attacks you mentioned.
You wouldn't want to "throw the baby out with the bath water."

Good luck my friend!

 

[CelticSire]

That isn't true. Not only was the P-47 one of the fastest fighters in WW2, in terms of air combat was not outclassed by any other piston driven fighter. The P-47D, FW-190, P-51D, F6F and F4U are regarded together as the best mass produced piston driven fighters of the war. The P-47 also shot down more enemy aircraft than any other US fighter.

You'll have to excuse my statement, then. I got that information from gentlemen who are friends of my neighbor, all who belong to a WWII Pilots Association who were actually flying them in combat. I guess when they told me that the P47 was more sluggish than the P51, they were wrong. Thanks for enlightening me, and I'll make sure to let them know.

 

[1 old 0311]

Here is some information on the Model 66 that I mentioned in my post, which you seem to be unfamiliar with since you kept calling it a single shot or "flintlock".

http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-re...ltimate-model-19-66-combat-magnum-thread.html

Before I bow out of this I want to remind you that you, yourself said that you fully expect to miss with the first five shots.
I didn't..

One last thing, please be careful if ever trying to save your wife or daughter/child from the type of attacks you mentioned.
You wouldn't want to "throw the baby out with the bath water."

Good luck my friend!

What's worse is he claims to be a hunting instructor. If, as he said " MISS THE FIRST 5-6 SHOTS" he has got to be hunting bunnies with a Gattling gun

 

[CelticSire]

Seemed to serve me well for 2 years in a combat zone but then again it wasn't "HUNTER SAFETY."

Sure it was. Just a different type of prey...

And Welcome Home.

 

[Lost Lake]

You teach "HUNTER SAFETY?" Well you do have me there I don't teach "Hunter safety."
I am however a 100% disabled Marine NCO combat Vet who qualified with everything the Marines has from .22 to .50 Ma Duce. In Vietnam, as a Grunt, I had my choice of BUG's. I chose to carry a Model 60. Seemed to serve me well for 2 years in a combat zone but then again it wasn't "HUNTER SAFETY." Maybe the demands, and rigors, of your "HUNTER SAFETY" course would have changed my mind.
We have the VFW where we get together to swap stories. Do you have a "HUNTER SAFETY" organization where you swap tales of ambush, sappers, boobie traps by angry squirrels, and landing in a hot LZ full of angry bunnies where only by the grace of God, and a high cap pistol, kept you from being overrun by woodland creatures?
Do the nightmares keep coming back for you also?

First off, I'm not impressed if that was your goal. I served overseas, it's going to take more than that to impress me.
We don't have .22's in the Army. At least not that I ever saw. And my model 60 was called an M60, I don't think they are the same.

I'm disappointed that you would take such a view of someone donating their time to teaching people weapon safety and handling firearms in public. Perhaps if you would take some of your knowledge and donate your time to teach kids between the ages of 10 and 80 the basics of weapon safety you may appreciate what I do to help further the use and familiarity of weapons by the general public.

There's life outside of the VFW....

 

[bmcgilvray]

Maybe someone takes your daughter and is driving away, and there you are trying to stop the getaway car... Do you want to try to shoot the tires out with your single shot flintlock or your 5 shot wheel gun or do you want a M-16 with a 30 round mag and two more mags on your hip?

Or maybe you'd take care and not shoot at the getaway car at all for fear you may hit someone with a stray round while your daughter is taken away to some desolate field and slaughtered.

Self defense is self defense. Take care of yourself. You're not going to keep from shooting the bad guy who's on top of your wife jamming a knife repeatedly into her chest because you're in a busy mall. You aim, you shoot.

I think this thread is absolutely stupid except for 18DAI's excellent post, and I am done with it.

No one has promoted the use of flint lock firearms here. We're all talking about repeating handguns using metallic cartridges.


Visions of grandeur (to use another line from "Star Wars.")


So, your going to use your hi-cap semi-auto to shower down on the get-away car with your daughter inside it?

Most here are physically capable of decisively clobbering the knife-wielding assailant from off of their wives without resorting to use of any firearm at all if we are to give consideration to this particular scenario. I'm a big ol' boy, yet not some tough guy, but I could and would mop the floor with the knife-wielding assailant.

You might need to be done with this thread.

"...like a moth drawn to a flame..."

 

[kbm6893]

Oh good Lord nogoodnamesleft.... Now you'll have sirrduke starting a thread asking which is better, throwing stars or blow darts for pinning bad guys against the wall....

I'm more of a wussy than all you tough guy 5-shots-is-all-I'll-ever-need guys.

Give me at least a dozen rounds and maybe I'll be able to defend myself. Shots to the head? Probably not. I'll have hands shaking, bowels quaking, knees knocking and mind blocking terror going on. My first 5 shots may be just to orient the barrel in the right direction....

You're a military veteran and a firearms instructor, and you need to expend half your ammo just to get on target? And we should listen to you? Where will those first 5 rounds go that miss? Through your walls or up the block into someone else's home? You're teaching firearms safety and advocating spraying at a car driving an innocent person away? Are you one of those guys who posts his ideas on youtube? I'll bet you are. Lots of those guys call themselves professionals, too. They obviously are not. I could ask you if you're for real, but I aready know the answer.

And by the way, military or police experience doesn't make you an automatic expert. Not all cops or soldiers are front line guys out there rocking and rolling. I've worked with cops that I wouldn't want to be around if they were holding a Red Ryder BB gun. You sound like a 16 year old kid playing Call of Duty in between popping his zits.

 

[Springfeildkid585]

First off, I'm not impressed if that was your goal. I served overseas, it's going to take more than that to impress me.
We don't have .22's in the Army. At least not that I ever saw. And my model 60 was called an M60, I don't think they are the same.

I'm disappointed that you would take such a view of someone donating their time to teaching people weapon safety and handling firearms in public. Perhaps if you would take some of your knowledge and donate your time to teach kids between the ages of 10 and 80 the basics of weapon safety you may appreciate what I do to help further the use and familiarity of weapons by the general public.

There's life outside of the VFW....

I think his point came back to you being admittedly incompetent with a firearm and that a revolver served him just fine in the combat zone. Also the Ruger Mk 1 .22 saw service in Vietnam. You talk about need of hicap autos for the just in case scenarios, yet if you really believe you're large gang of terrorist scenarios, when you hear something go bump in the night you send your unarmed wife to become a hostage.

 

[1 old 0311]

I think his point came back to you being admittedly incompetent with a firearm and that a revolver served him just fine in the combat zone. Also the Ruger Mk 1 .22 saw service in Vietnam. You talk about need of hicap autos for the just in case scenarios, yet if you really believe you're large gang of terrorist scenarios, when you hear something go bump in the night you send your unarmed wife to become a hostage.

His unarmed wife is probably SAFER with the BG's than with someone who "sends 5-6 rounds off just to get on target."

 

[wheelyfun66]

Holy cow!
This thread is starting to remind me of Glock Talk....

 

[sipowicz]

I have a 1950's registered magnum and am thinking of upgrading it with an internal lock...any opinions on the best way to get this done?