The risk of the warning shot

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Bellingham, WA

A Sunnyland neighborhood resident armed with a gun reportedly attempted to stop a man carrying a knife from breaking into a car Saturday night but nearly had the gun pried from his hands and turned against him before police arrived.

Bellingham police booked Jesse Hill into Whatcom County Jail on suspicion of first-degree robbery, second-degree vehicle prowling, third-degree theft and obstructing a police officer. Jail records show he is being held in lieu of $200,000 bail.

Officers were called at 11:30 p.m. July 11 to the 900 block of East North Street for the report of an interrupted vehicle prowl, Lt. Claudia Murphy told The Bellingham Herald in an email.

The victim was alerted to someone being on his property by a security system, Murphy reported. The victim armed himself, went outside, saw Hill standing near his neighbor’s car and noticed that his own truck had already been broken into, as the interior lights were on.

The victim told Hill not to leave until the police arrived, Murphy wrote, but Hill tried to talk his way out of being caught and started to walk toward the victim with his arms stretched out.

The victim told Hill he would defend himself if Hill continued to approach, Murphy reported, but Hill continued, and the victim fired a warning shot.

Instead of stopping, Hill attacked the victim, Murphy wrote, and attempted to wrestle the gun from the victim’s hand. During the struggle, the victim said he could feel Hill trying to turn the gun into the victim’s body and feared Hill was going to shoot him.

As police arrived, Hill ran off with the victim and a neighbor, who also had been alerted to the vehicle prowl, in pursuit, Murphy reported.

Officers surrounded the area and located Hill lying on a roof with the knife still in his hand, Murphy reported. Hill was told to drop the knife, but he instead jumped off the roof and tried to run again, but fell over some lawn furniture.

Hill continued to hold the knife and was slow to comply with the officer’s commands to drop it, until more officers arrived and he was taken into custody, Murphy wrote, though he continued to resist.

The victim suffered an undetermined injury during the struggle with Hill and will have to visit a doctor, Murphy reported.
 
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Here's the homeowner's main problem in this scenario: "The victim armed himself, went outside, saw the (suspect) standing near his neighbor's car...."

This is a very dangerous decision. A better, safer course of action would be to arm yourself, stay inside your home, and, stay on the phone with the dispatcher while police respond, providing a description of the suspect and his location.

Suspects in these types of thefts and vehicle break in's are more than likely drunk or high during the incident, and as such can be very dangerous and unpredictable when confronted, especially when confronted by a homeowner. Confrontation and subsequent arrest should be left to the police.

In my experience, "warning shots" serve no useful purpose, and only make an already dangerous situation even more dangerous....possibly resulting in the injury or death of an innocent person or bystander.
 
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Here's the homeowner's main problem in this scenario: "The victim armed himself, went outside, saw the (suspect) standing near his neighbor's car...."

Yes- very good advice and clearly shows a dangerous precedent in "playing cop." In this case, the homeowner wasn't in danger until he confronted the perp. I should have clarified that when I posted the article; I was thinking of a scenario when someone WAS initially in danger and fired a warning shot, which was not the case here. He could possibly also have kept a safe distance andused a very bright light to illuminate the suspect.


Thanks for bringing up the other side of the situation.
 
I've read several incident reports where warning shots were successful against bears and vicious dogs. Anyone have any concerns to add about warning shots against animals?
 
I've read several incident reports where warning shots were successful against bears and vicious dogs. Anyone have any concerns to add about warning shots against animals?

Good question, I wonder what folks would say about you scaring the critter off in lieu of killing it. You can easily fire a warning shot into the ground safely.

Rosewood
 
I understand the concept of staying inside and waiting on police. But is there a law that says I have to stay in my house cowering? I have every right to go out in my yard anytime of the day with my weapon in hand. Going outside on my own property any time I wish is within my rights.

As for the neighbors yard, I can easily stand in my driveway and speak to someone rifling through my neighbors vehicle, I wouldn't have to leave my property to do so.


The way the cops are responding these days, no telling how long they would take. I had someone shooting in the narrow strip of woods behind my house twice in the last month at 10pm and 11pm. Called the LEOs both times, best I can tell, they never came out.

Rosewood
 
Warning shots are in almost all cases stupid and dangerous and are often illegal. They are, by definition, a discharge of a weapon when you are NOT in immediate peril. They have the potential of huge civil and criminal liability. DON'T DO IT.

In addition, in most jurisdictions, firing a warning shot may constitute assault with a deadly weapon. Also, going out to confront now takes away the "unwilling participant" clause in many cases and makes you the aggressor should things go south
 
Around here waiting for a LEO can be timed w/ a calendar, you deal w/ prowlers & break-ins on your own. Warning shots against 2-legged predators are a very bad idea... if you need to pull that gun use it or you didn't need to pull it @ all or you'll end up in a wrestling match. Guns are to do damage @ a distance, not hand-to-hand. Warning shots, like most loud noises, might work for animals.
 
This comes up often. What do you do when you point your gun at a bad guy, make demands and he doesn't follow those demands? The only correct answer is to shoot him. However, if the situation didn't necessitate him being shot, you're now the aggressor and headed to prison.

Never bring your gun out until you need to shoot. There is no exception to this.



I've read several incident reports where warning shots were successful against bears and vicious dogs. Anyone have any concerns to add about warning shots against animals?

Good question, I wonder what folks would say about you scaring the critter off in lieu of killing it. You can easily fire a warning shot into the ground safely.

Rosewood
It's a good question, but terrible advice. Warning shots are always bad. No, shooting into the ground is not safe. You could strike a rock or some other object and the resulting ricochet could kill someone or even the animal you intended to scare. If you want to scare an animal, make a loud noise, yell, clap, use an air horn, whatever, but do not take a warning shot. Again, if it's dangerous enough to require you to have your gun out, only use the gun to stop the animal.

Warning shots are always bad.
 
The homeowner did everything wrong. There isn't a single thing that he did that made any sense.

First, you don't go outside to engage a thief. Call the cops and let them deal with it. You're not in any danger, so why put yourself in danger to protect the few things you have stored in your car? Senseless in all situations.

Second, you never, ever, ever fire a warning shot. What warning are you giving, that you have a gun? Duh, the bad guy can see that. Are you warning that you'll shoot the bad guy if he comes any closer? You've already shown that you won't do that because you didn't shoot him when you legally could have, as he approach with a weapon displayed. So all you've done is illustrate that you're not serious about defending yourself, turning yourself into a target.

Which is exactly what happened here. The homeowner let a criminal with a deadly weapon get to touching distance and almost lost his life. This guy should sell all his guns and stop pretending that he's ready to protect himself. He clearly isn't.

Thanks to OldBrownHat for posting this. It's a superb example of what NOT to do.
 
I understand the concept of staying inside and waiting on police. But is there a law that says I have to stay in my house cowering? I have every right to go out in my yard anytime of the day with my weapon in hand. Going outside on my own property any time I wish is within my rights.

As for the neighbors yard, I can easily stand in my driveway and speak to someone rifling through my neighbors vehicle, I wouldn't have to leave my property to do so...

Rosewood
Seems unfortunate that you equate what for many informed folk is discretion, proper priorities and good tactics with "cowering" -- which it isn't, but you do you.

Anyway, no, there's isn't a law that says you have to stay in your home.

There are laws local to you that say when you can and cannot use deadly force; there's also general common sense that says when you should. Suggest studying up on both.

At minimum, anyone considering "engaging" -- in any situation, really -- at least ought to ask themselves this: "Is this something worth killing, dying, or going to prison over." It's a simple metric with worlds of implication...
 
So, everyone on here hears a noise in their yard at night, they are going to peek out the window and call the cops to come and investigate that it was a raccoon that knocked over the trash can. I don't buy it. I bet the majority of folks on here would go out and investigate just like every read blooded male would.

I have every right to go out side my house and see what is going on armed or not whether you think it is a good idea or not.

With your gun on you hip, you are not "using deadly force" until you point at someone. If I am standing in my yard and a perp moves toward me after I warned him to stop, I have every right to draw my weapon shoot him because I was in fear of my life. You didn't instigate it, you are on your property, he did, he is trespassing.

I am not saying staying in my home and waiting on cops is a bad idea, I am saying I shouldn't have to and do not think I am required to do so in my state.

Rosewood
 
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Seems unfortunate that you equate what for many informed folk is discretion, proper priorities and good tactics with "cowering" -- which it isn't, but you do you.

Anyway, no, there's isn't a law that says you have to stay in your home.

There are laws local to you that say when you can and cannot use deadly force; there's also general common sense that says when you should. Suggest studying up on both.

At minimum, anyone considering "engaging" -- in any situation, really -- at least ought to ask themselves this: "Is this something worth killing, dying, or going to prison over." It's a simple metric with worlds of implication...

Hapworth, your comments are perfect.

As you noted, in some places, the prevention of property theft is not considered a reason to use deadly force. If you're talking about protecting your property from a mob like the folks in St. Louis, that's a completely different story.
 
So, what if the perp had already choked your neighbor to death and was working on his wife? Would you wait to see what is really going on? Let the cops deal with it?

Rosewood
 
So, what if the perp had already choked your neighbor to death and was working on his wife? Would you wait to see what is really going on? Let the cops deal with it?

Rosewood

There's a BIG difference between investigating an unknown noise, seeing someone breaking into a car, and seeing someone committing murder.
 
"you should never fire a warning shot". Maybe so for a person, but I can see if you are in the wilderness and a grizzly is about to charge you, you are going to throw your gun down, wave your arms, clap etc and yell to scare him? I think not, I am going to fire a warning shot near the ground to get his attention if that doesn't work then I will dispatch him. I am going to keep that weapon ready in case the noise doesn't scare him. I could care less about a "ricochet" if in the woods.

Rosewood
 
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There's a BIG difference between investigating an unknown noise, seeing someone breaking into a car, and seeing someone committing murder.

No kidding. My point is you don't know to what extent things have happened.

What is the phrase, "bad things happen because good people sit by and do nothing?"

Rosewood
 
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