The Russians have gone in

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biku324 said:
Except Herr Hilter had actual combat experience.....
Click to expand...
Alas, not quite enough...

World War One: The British hero who did not shoot Hitler

"...At his Bavarian retreat the Berghof, Chamberlain noticed a picture on the wall of Hitler's study, depicting a scene from a battle at Menin crossroads in 1914. The soldier in the foreground was apparently Pte Tandey, carrying a fellow soldier to safety.

Hitler told Chamberlain the soldier had pointed a gun at him but spared him.

"That man came so near to killing me that I thought I should never see Germany again," Hitler is alleged to have said.

"Providence saved me from such devilish accurate fire as those English boys were aiming at us.".​
 
biku324 said:
Except Herr Hilter had actual combat experience….
Click to expand...

And expertise at his disposal.

That's partly what I referred to with my earlier mention of how little we know about Putin's inner circle.

Hitler's wars were made possible not by the Nazi party's control of Germany, but by the deal the German army made with Hitler in 1934: German re-militarization and re-armament in exchange for obedience. Hitler always had highly competent, often brilliant generals, quite happy to conduct his wars of conquest and untroubled by trivialities like genocide, men like Manstein, Guderian, and Rommel, but who were still willing to confront Hitler and get yelled at, fired, or worse, when they thought he was screwing up.

Does Putin have anyone like that? Or just lickspittles? How much does he himself actually understand of the situation of his army, given his lack of any military background?
 
Absalom said:
And expertise at his disposal.

That's partly what I referred to with my earlier mention of how little we know about Putin's inner circle.

Hitler's wars were made possible not by the Nazi party's control of Germany, but by the deal the German army made with Hitler in 1934: German re-militarization and re-armament in exchange for obedience. Hitler always had highly competent, often brilliant generals, quite happy to conduct his wars of conquest and untroubled by trivialities like genocide, men like Manstein, Guderian, and Rommel, but who were still willing to confront Hitler and get yelled at, fired, or worse, when they thought he was screwing up.

Does Putin have anyone like that? Or just lickspittles? How much does he himself actually understand of the situation of his army, given his lack of any military background?
Click to expand...

Putin's inner circle as assessed by the BBC. Seems believable.

Ukraine conflict: Who'''s in Putin'''s inner circle and running the war? - BBC News
 
smithman 10 said:
...Ukraine couple kicks Russian soldiers out of their yard! How dare they invade!
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They demanded his wife's phone:

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How do you say "cojones" in Ukrainian?
 

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Seriously doubt Putin has any General close to Rommel. BTW, Rommel's early success against the Brits in N. Africa was due to the germans breaking the US " brown" code. Churchill sent Roosevelt all his battle plans, Roosevelt replied using the " brown" code which were read by Rommel.
 
Muss Muggins said:
I'd like to know what Ukraine has done to correct this . . .

Ukraine - United States Department of State
Click to expand...

I've got about halfway through that thing and so far I've learned two things:

1) Ukraine still isn't a settled place post USSR. Thinking about it, I not really too surprised.

2) I'm reminded there's an old saying about "people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones".
 
Muss:

Here you go....the State Department's 2021 report won't be out until this fall, so Human Rights Watch has the latest info. World Report 2022: Ukraine | Human Rights Watch

In addition, this from DOS as Ukraine utterly reorganizes its police from the brutal corrupt Soviet model to a western model.

This week marked another reform milestone for Ukraine—the newly trained Patrol Police in Odesa were publicly sworn-in in front of Ukraine's President Poroshenko, Prime Minister Yatsenyuk, and Minister of Internal Affairs Avakov.

The State Department, working through the California Highway Patrol and the Reno and Dayton police departments, supported this training for new and more effective police in Kyiv, Lviv, and now Odesa. In September, a new patrol police force will also stand up in Kharkiv.

We commend the Government of Ukraine on this important public trust initiative and continue to stand with Ukraine as it fights corruption, pursues reform, and strengthens rule of law.

And this:

The U.S. Department of State's Bureau of International Narcotics and Law Enforcement Affairs (INL) works to keep Americans safe at home by countering international crime, illegal drugs, and instability abroad. INL helps countries deliver justice and fairness by strengthening their police, courts, and corrections systems. These efforts reduce the amount of crime and illegal drugs reaching U.S. shores.

Challenges: The Ukrainian government faces intense political, military, and economic pressure from Russia and the pernicious influence of deeply rooted corruption. Russia continues its aggression in eastern Ukraine and its occupation of Crimea, closes its markets to Ukrainian goods, and exploits weak institutions and corrupt actors to undermine reforms. Despite these challenges, the Ukrainian government continues to implement important reforms and has laid the foundation of a new system to fight corruption and align law enforcement agencies with U.S. and European standards and practices. Much remains to be done to institutionalize these reforms and ensure the system is effective in combating transnational crime and corruption.

Goals: The United States improves Ukraine's capacity to deliver citizen security and combat organized crime. This work builds law enforcement cooperation between the United States and Ukraine to address transnational threats, including those with a U.S. nexus. The United States also strengthens criminal justice sector institutions and improves citizens' trust in government, enhancing Ukraine's resilience to Russian malign influence. INL's objectives in Ukraine are to: strengthen law enforcement agencies to address complex security challenges facing Ukraine; reform criminal justice agencies in line with Western best practices; and support Ukraine's efforts to tackle corruption, including through independent anti-corruption agencies.

Accomplishments:

INL supported the Government of Ukraine to meet the aspirations of the 2014 Revolution of Dignity by standing up new institutions, agencies, and units designed to fight corruption, improve security, and increase access to justice.

INL assisted the Ukrainian government to replace the notoriously corrupt traffic police with a 16,000 strong Patrol Police nationwide and helped establish the country's first Patrol Police Academy in Kyiv, which is currently expanding throughout the country. This project is one of Ukraine's most visible reforms and is credited for changing the way Ukrainian citizens interact with and perceive law enforcement.

INL is now expanding police reform to small towns and villages nationwide in partnership with the National Police, local communities, and U.S. law enforcement as part of the Territorial Community Police project.

INL supported the Ukrainian government's establishment of the National Anti-Corruption Bureau of Ukraine (NABU), the Specialized Anti-Corruption Prosecutor's Office (SAPO), and the High Anti-Corruption Court. NABU and SAPO have launched hundreds of investigations against high-level corrupt actors since their founding.

INL supports national prosecutorial reform through the re-attestation of all Office of the Prosecutor General personnel, the most significant prosecutorial reform effort ever undertaken in Ukraine.

INL helps the Border Guards to reform its HR practices and establish model border crossing points across Ukraine to address corruption issues and to aid in the apprehension of criminals and terrorists moving across Ukrainian territory.
Bureau of International Narcotics and Law Enforcement Affairs: Ukraine Summary - United States Department of State

State has partnered with DOJ and several US state and local police agencies not mentioned above to train and mentor new Ukrainian Patrol Police - Houston PD and Texas DPS were particularly helpful.

And this from DOJ:

UKRAINE: ICITAP HELPS EXPAND PUBLIC ORDER CAPABILITY WITH PATROL POLICE
June 11, 2021

On June 11, 2021, ICITAP concluded the first of two weeks of Patrol Police of Ukraine (PPD) Public Order training in Kyiv. Participants included 20 bike patrol officers and 19 horse-mounted officers, in addition to 48 TOR officers, who completed Incident Command Systems (ICS) training. The U.S. Chargé d'Affaires and the Head of the National Police of Ukraine (NPU) attended the graduation ceremony. The second week of the event will be dedicated to the Crowd Control Summit being held in the eastern region of Kharkiv. ICITAP has been training PPD officers in Public Order Management since 2017 when the first 30 trainers completed a Training-of-Trainers course. Since then, ICITAP has organized Incident Command Systems (ICS) training events, this year's bike and mounted officer training, and three Crowd Control Summits where ICITAP advisors, PPD trainers, and hundreds of PPD TOR officers gather to share experiences and best practices for handling mass events like protests and parades.

Component(s):
Criminal Division
Criminal - International Criminal Investigative Training Assistance Program
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Ukraine: ICITAP Helps Expand Public Order Capability with Patrol Police | CRIMINAL-ICITAP | Department of Justice
 
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