The Russians have gone in

[UncleEd]

U.S. weapons package
announced today seen
as giving Ukrainians an
offensive capability, not
just defensive.

A newly developed drone
is in the package.

 

[swsig]

I see no way that Russia can "win" this war, in any sense of the word. The only question in my mind is how much blood will have to be shed before Putin realizes that.

While I agree that Russia "lost" the moment that they first attacked, I don't think that any amount of bloodshed by Ukrainians or his own troops will get Putin to realize that he has lost. He is a hard-core psychopath with zero empathy for anyone but himself. His goal is to glorify himself by restoring the Russian Empire. If that means that every single Ukrainian plus hundreds of thousands of Russian soldiers have to die in the process, he's OK with that.

 

[oldbrownhat]

... If that means that every single Ukrainian plus hundreds of thousands of Russian soldiers have to die in the process, he's OK with that.

That reminded me of this passage from Matthew, which, even without the religious context, seems applicable here:

"What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul?"
​

 

[bigwheelzip]

Surprising example today of one of our guys "Walking the Talk".

Saw the face of TV commentator Malcolm Nance today, in an unexpected place. After decades in the Navy, he'd been speaking on TV lately as a National Security Advisor.
At 61 years of age, this retired Senior Chief Petty Officer said "I'm done talking" and joined Ukraine's Foreign Legion.

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[swsig]

That reminded me of this passage from Matthew, which, even without the religious context, seems applicable here:

"What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul?"
​

Now if Putin only had a soul...

 

[ddixie884]

IMHO, Ukraine will lose this war. And Russia will inherit billions of dollars in weapons donated by USA, Europe. DEJA VU ALLOVER AGAIN !!!

I hope not. Rather, I hope that the Ukrainiens will sell every round of the munitions at a very dear price..........

 

[Beemerguy53]

While I agree that Russia "lost" the moment that they first attacked, I don't think that any amount of bloodshed by Ukrainians or his own troops will get Putin to realize that he has lost. He is a hard-core psychopath with zero empathy for anyone but himself. His goal is to glorify himself by restoring the Russian Empire. If that means that every single Ukrainian plus hundreds of thousands of Russian soldiers have to die in the process, he's OK with that.

I agree with you regarding Putin's mindset, but with 40,000,000 Ukrainians, he simply doesn't have the military he needs to subjugate -- let along kill -- them all. And the survivors of every Ukrainian he does kill will swear an oath to avenge that death.

I'm not sure how this will end, and almost anything is possible. But anything short of leaving Ukraine entirely is going to result in Russia having to fight every hour of every day until they do leave. The Ukrainians are energized, enraged, and inspired, and they will not give up until every Russian is gone from their land.

Putin cannot win this war, at least not in any meaningful sense. And if he isn't sensible enough to realize that, let's hope someone in his inner circle does, and takes appropriate action to end this war sooner rather than later.

 

[ddixie884]

Dolph sent his boys into Russia in June.

But, they stayed too long and went too far in.............

That is what happens when you bet it all on black and lose..........

 

[The Last Standing Knight]

I agree with you regarding Putin's mindset, but with 40,000,000 Ukrainians, he simply doesn't have the military he needs to subjugate -- let along kill -- them all. And the survivors of every Ukrainian he does kill will swear an oath to avenge that death.

I'm not sure how this will end, and almost anything is possible. But anything short of leaving Ukraine entirely is going to result in Russia having to fight every hour of every day until they do leave. The Ukrainians are energized, enraged, and inspired, and they will not give up until every Russian is gone from their land.

Putin cannot win this war, at least not in any meaningful sense. And if he isn't sensible enough to realize that, let's hope someone in his inner circle does, and takes appropriate action to end this war sooner rather than later.

I respectfully disagree.

Putin CAN win this war. It is only a matter how far he is willing to go to do so.

From what I have seen, unless he is removed from power, I do not believe for one second at the right moment that he has that willingness. He personally has nothing to lose at this point.

My question is just what NATO and the west will do WHEN that moment comes.

 

[Greyman50]

The definition of " win" is the key. Russian would have to occupy every square inch of Ukraine to " win" in one sense. However Russian would have to kill every Ukrainian to actually win in another sense. Seriously doubt either will happen. Putin next move will be the key regarding how NATO and the rest of the world reacts.

 

[UncleEd]

The question has come up on
this forum as to what will NATO
do. Reading between the lines
of news reports, it already is
doing much on a daily basis.

Certainly the news on Finland
has to be a kick in Putin's butt.

But let's keep an eye on France
this Sunday.

 

[glenwolde]

There will be no winners here. If it continues then at some point the Ukrainians realize they really have no country left and just leave to fight in absentia. Or they stay and fight to the death. You can't subjugate a population that's willing to die.

Putin is left with a desolated piece of real estate where 80% or more of the inhabitants have left. It will require far more to rebuild than it cost to conquer.

On their way out, the Ukrainian military blows all the natural gas pipelines Russia has running through it, which supplies about 15% or so of Europe's natural gas. I'm a little surprised they haven't already, but they aren't desperate enough yet I guess. Plus that will hurt Europe. Maybe they are just waiting for warmer weather. Destroying them might also shut off their own supply.

Putin has miscalculated and has no way out. My prediction: He will eventually take more of eastern Ukraine and sue for peace. Or just stop and declare victory. The problem for him is the Ukrainians might keep fighting.

 

[UncleEd]

Regarding victory or none for
either side, the war is now
revolving around the Russian
eastern offensive.

It'll be interesting to see how
effectively Ukraine uses the
Switchblades, the new Phoenix
Ghost and heavy artillery.

Look for Russian morale to be
driven even further down.

 

[biku324]

Russia has already lost. They are Germany in 1944; still killing, just not winning. What may finish them off is their disruption of
Ukraine's farming cycle - search for how much of the world's grains come from Ukraine. Russia, by fall, will be unable to ensure their own food security either with foodstocks from Ukraine or by buying grossly inflated foodstuffs with a grossly devalued rouble.

Added: The Ukrainian planting season starts contemporaneously with that of Minnesota and the Dakotas. It ain't happening this year.

Ukraine is the world's fifth-biggest exporter of wheat and in the top three for maize, barley and sunflower seeds. Wheat production in 2021 was about 40 million tonnes, with another 50 million tonnes for the other three commodities. Ukraine grain storage shortage adds to farmers''' woes | Reuters

 

[Kevin J.]

buying grossly inflated foodstuffs with a grossly devalued rouble.]

As will we and the rest of the world, but with a devalued dollar due to inflation.

 

[UncleEd]

As will we and the rest of the world, but with a devalued dollar due to inflation.

But which nations have the
ability to bounce back?

The West and the U.S. have
a pretty good track record.

 

[dockmurgw]

World Band has estimated the physical damage at 60 billion. Just wait till the contractors move in for those contracts, they will make Putin look like a boy scout in comparison.

 

[Beemerguy53]

I respectfully disagree.

Putin CAN win this war. It is only a matter how far he is willing to go to do so.

From what I have seen, unless he is removed from power, I do not believe for one second at the right moment that he has that willingness. He personally has nothing to lose at this point.

My question is just what NATO and the west will do WHEN that moment comes.

Please define "win" as you use that word in this context...thanks.

 

[OLDSTER]

Some don't believe this is a "war" ?? What is it ? a "skirmish" like Nam and Korea ?? Putin has announced his plans to spread the "skirmish" to Moldova.

 

[bigwheelzip]

Netherlands is supplying Ukraine with German PZH 2000 artillery and Germany is supplying the ammo for them.

The Dutch Are Sending Huge German Armored Howitzers To Ukraine

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