The Safety Situation

[1sailor]

A couple of days ago I read about a cop back East who was just standing in a coffee shop when his glock discharged and severed 3 arteries in his leg. His hand was nowhere near his sidearm when it went off. He lived to tell the tale but apparently it can happen.

 

[Arik]

A couple of days ago I read about a cop who was just standing in a coffee shop when his glock discharged and severed 3 arteries in his leg. His hand was nowhere near his sidearm when it went off. He lived to tell the tale but apparently it can happen.

Link please. This would be a first. Assuming that nothing got caught in the trigger guard and he never messed with the internals.

Watch the video I posted. You need all 3 safeties to fail at the same time. So its either a fluke, which I doubt, or he's not telling something....like messing with the internals or having something caught or maybe he wasn't just standing around. About 6 years ago we had a PA state trooper who's Glock accidentally went off and killed his pregnant wife. Glocks were deemed unsafe. Now new evidence has surfaced that point to homicide

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[kbm6893]

Link please. This would be a first. Assuming that nothing got caught in the trigger guard and he never messed with the internals.

Watch the video I posted. You need all 3 safeties to fail at the same time. So its either a fluke, which I doubt, or he's not telling something....like messing with the internals or having something caught or maybe he wasn't just standing around. About 6 years ago we had a PA state trooper who's Glock accidentally went off and killed his pregnant wife. Glocks were deemed unsafe. Now new evidence has surfaced that point to homicide

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I remember that. He was cleared when it happened, although PA troopers are generally viewed as untouchable. But I recall the bullet went through a wall and hit his pregnant wife.

And it is a homicide. Definition of homicide is death at the hands of another human being. Even good shootings are homicides. But I think it would be big news if he was charged. They buried it. Truth is, it should have been a manslaughter charge. He was cleaning the gun and pulled trigger to field strip. But he had weapon pointed at wall, which he surely wasn't taught to do while in the academy. But I believe the judge and DA felt sorry as he had another child to raise. But they soon went to SIG after that.

And I don't believe a Glock went off by itself while in a holster, either.

 

[1sailor]

I will search for it and post a link if I can still find it.

 

[1sailor]

This is the incident. It has a lot more detail then the original article I saw. They're still calling it a 'spontaneous discharge" though.
Officer shot in leg after his gun went off spontaneously, Winnipeg police say - Manitoba - CBC News

 

[Arik]

I remember that. He was cleared when it happened, although PA troopers are generally viewed as untouchable. But I recall the bullet went through a wall and hit his pregnant wife.

And it is a homicide. Definition of homicide is death at the hands of another human being. Even good shootings are homicides. But I think it would be big news if he was charged. They buried it. Truth is, it should have been a manslaughter charge. He was cleaning the gun and pulled trigger to field strip. But he had weapon pointed at wall, which he surely wasn't taught to do while in the academy. But I believe the judge and DA felt sorry as he had another child to raise. But they soon went to SIG after that.

And I don't believe a Glock went off by itself while in a holster, either.

I'd have to read it again but I remember she was either IN the room or was walking in.

I think in this case they mean it was on purpose and not a accidental discharge or a malfunctioning gun. As in.... for whatever reason he wanted her dead

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[Arik]

I will search for it and post a link if I can still find it.

Edit. Didn't see your reply

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[wrangler5]

They're still calling it a 'spontaneous discharge" though.

Keep your gun well shot and well cleaned and it won't feel the need to go do something spontaneously.

 

[Arik]

This is the incident. It has a lot more detail then the original article I saw. They're still calling it a 'spontaneous discharge" though.
Officer shot in leg after his gun went off spontaneously, Winnipeg police say - Manitoba - CBC News

Thanks for think. Since it happened a week ago I'm going to wait and see what the problem was before claiming it was the gun. It went off when he bent to sit down. Meaning something caused the gun to go off when he squatted down. Let's see if he had her s shirt or something else inside the holster accidentally

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[350mag]

1911 leg was in invented long ago. My elder friend accomplished that feat in the behind the wheel of his 57 Ford sometime in 1963. He calmly placed his thumb in the hole in his leg and drove to the hospital for stitches.


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[Ray1970]

No.

I wouldn't want to say the striker is "this much" cocked but it's not fully cocked. You're not walking around with a gun in condition zero.

The striker isn't fully cocked and it can't go forward until it is.

We will have to disagree. My M&P's, XD's, XDM, and VP9 have the striker pretty much fully retracted. Pulling the trigger on these guns simply releases the striker. In fact, when I first started shooting an XDM in IDPA they wouldn't even lest you compete in SSP with the Glocks because the XDM was considered "single action" as the trigger only released a fully "cocked" striker whereas the Glock was considered "double action" because pulling the trigger served two purposes- completing the "cocking" of the striker and then releasing it.

 

[Smakmauz]

We will have to disagree. My M&P's, XD's, XDM, and VP9 have the striker pretty much fully retracted. Pulling the trigger on these guns simply releases the striker. In fact, when I first started shooting an XDM in IDPA they wouldn't even lest you compete in SSP with the Glocks because the XDM was considered "single action" as the trigger only released a fully "cocked" striker whereas the Glock was considered "double action" because pulling the trigger served two purposes- completing the "cocking" of the striker and then releasing it.

^^^^yep!! you nailed it!

 

[Smoke]

If your using the term "fully cocked" to define pulling the trigger half way, then you are correct... It is just semantics. Because pulling halfway disables the striker block. Pulling the rest of the way just releases the striker, except for a very tiny amount (like 2%) which wouldn't even be needed for most primers to ignite.

I have hundreds of hours into messing around with and studying the internals of this system and it is much different than glocks set up which is more like what you are describing.

Maybe I'm not saying it right but even if it's only 2% doesn't the striker have to go back before it can go forward?

 

[Ray1970]

Maybe I'm not saying it right but even if it's only 2% doesn't the striker have to go back before it can go forward?

I think any rearward movement of the striker is simply a result of a bit of negative engagement between the striker and sear. Technically, the striker doesn't need to move rearward before being released. Not sure if I explained that where it makes sense or not. Basically, the angles where the sear and striker engage are set up to achieve a safe and positive engagement. So, when the trigger is pulled the striker does move rearward ever so slightly.

 

[Ray1970]

Oh, the Glock is a slightly different animal and the striker does move rearward by design. Basically the Glock is kind of "half cocked" and pulling the trigger completes the rearward travel of the striker before being released.

Things like the M&P, XD, VP9, and the P320 and probably other striker fired models differ from the Glock.

 

[Smakmauz]

Maybe I'm not saying it right but even if it's only 2% doesn't the striker have to go back before it can go forward?

Here is a very good explaination of it:

I think any rearward movement of the striker is simply a result of a bit of negative engagement between the striker and sear. Technically, the striker doesn't NEED to move rearward before being released. Not sure if I explained that where it makes sense or not. Basically, the angles where the sear and striker engage are set up to achieve a safe and positive engagement. So, when the trigger is pulled the striker does move rearward ever so slightly.

maybe let me try to put it another way. once you rack the slide the striker is cocked to a point that if, all of the sudden in a millisecond, the striker block and the sear disappeared, the striker would spring forward and ignite the primer and fire the gun. Gun condition codes don't seem to apply the same to striker guns because all the codes are set up for DA\SA guns with a hammer, but you can kind of think of the M&P system like condition 1/2... mag loaded, round chambered, Striker(hammer) cocked, safety off. except that we now have striker block safeties and trigger shoe safeties which are automatic as you pull the trigger. Somewhere between condition zero and condition one.

that 2% of movement, like Ray noted is basically just there to add some friction to make the trigger "safer".

If you look at apex sears, they actually remove material from the little nub that engages the striker to lessen that friction Ray mentioned. it also serves to lighten the trigger pull and make it more crisp so it doesn't have that sort of slightly round feel the stock triggers have. that's why the sell the duty/carry kits with heavier than stock springs.

anyway, hopefully this all helps you understand the system a little better. I've harped on it enough so I'm gonna bow out of this conversation and get on road.

 

[kbm6893]

I'd have to read it again but I remember she was either IN the room or was walking in.

I think in this case they mean it was on purpose and not a accidental discharge or a malfunctioning gun. As in.... for whatever reason he wanted her dead

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Really? If you have a link with that info I'd like to
See it. As I said, DA's are in the troopers pockets in PA and they rarely get prosecuted. I love cops but some of the things I've read about were real suspicious.

 

[Arik]

Really? If you have a link with that info I'd like to
See it. As I said, DA's are in the troopers pockets in PA and they rarely get prosecuted. I love cops but some of the things I've read about were real suspicious.

Former Pa. state trooper charged in shooting deaths of pregnant wife, baby

"Investigators determined that the muzzle of Miller's firearm was between 3 and 6 inches away from his wife's head when he shot her, the affidavit says."

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[Hybrid556]

Or you use the practice of holding the gun in a normal shooting grip but pull your thumb back to where it's resting on the back of the slide. This is a good bolstering technique for striker guns because you can also feel if the slide goes out of battery when inserted. This also seems makes the grip safety function

Even at this point you have a partial grip on the firearm. I understand what you are saying, but anytime you break your grip on the handgun you run the risk of losing control of the firearm.

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[Island Boy]

A "Glock leg" will happen with a Shield if one doesn't use the thumb safety and keeps his finger on the trigger. All these safeties only work if YOU use them. Glock leg won't happen if the finger is not on the trigger..... which it shouldn't be in the first place. If you look on YouTube there's a guy who gave himself a Glock leg with a 1911! A gun with TWO safeties!!!!

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If you consider the trigger, a 1911 has 3 safeties!!


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