The Smith and Wesson Governor: Misfit or Misunderstood?

Mister X said:
This has all already been covered, but I guess you don't want thread through the entire thread, so...

With kids in the house, where do you keep the Governor? Does your Wife never leave the house staying locked in some kind impenetrable panic room when you are gone? I imagine she at least steps out to get the mail, take out the trash, take the kids outside to play, walk the dog, goes to the store etc. In such instances, does she have the Governor on her at these times? What about having dinner or lounging around watching tv with the kids? There is an assumption that home defense scenarios only occur at overnight when everyone is in bed.

Concealed Carry Tactics to Neutralize a Home Invasion

There is also often an assumption that a home defense scenario involves a certain amount of time and distance involved, but they actually often occur at contact distances. A gun like the Governor offers relatively poor weapon inherent retention capabilities. A lightweight j-frame snub by contrast can easily be worn at all times and is the most difficult gun to disarm from its rightful owner. Woman(most people actually) are extremely hesitant to shoot someone and violent felons are aware of this, so a disarm attempt is highly likely...

The Real Ladies Gun -- Handguns

I take more issue with the practicality and functionality of the gun itself, but some are focused solely on the ballistics and the idea "you don't have to aim". Well...

Hating on the Taurus Judge | Active Response Training

I still think a .410 revolver is silly. - [url]www.GrantCunningham.com www.GrantCunningham.com[/url]

The Taurus Judge Is Just Not Very Good | Vuurwapen Blog
Click to expand...



Without looking at your other links-- the truth about guns review is absolute garbage. The guy has never shot the gun, makes assumptions based on nothing and discusses how .410 patterns poorly. It is clear he did not use .410 loads designed for the firearm.

Now, I would agree a .410 pistol might be a bit much without ample training for a petite lady. I have an easier time with my 12 gauge than I do firing the .410 loads.


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CamoBlaze said:
Without looking at your other links-- the truth about guns review is absolute garbage. The guy has never shot the gun, makes assumptions based on nothing and discusses how .410 patterns poorly. It is clear he did not use .410 loads designed for the firearm.

Now, I would agree a .410 pistol might be a bit much without ample training for a petite lady. I have an easier time with my 12 gauge than I do firing the .410 loads.


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Click to expand...

I'm not sure what review you're referring to. I'm not aware of having posted any links to TTAG.
 
Mister X said:
I think these spirited debates are often useful for hashing out a given topic and I do enjoy participating. I just like them to be kept civil and harbor no ill will toward anyone simply because they have a differing opinion. I hope that feeling is mutual.

And as to whether or not it's Tuesday... That would depend on where you live. ;)
Click to expand...

I agree with the spirit of a debate. I just don't understand how one can offer a valid opinion with such limited personal experience. You haven't fired a Governor, you ignore valid ballistic tests that have been submitted via this thread. You draw your so called KOLs as the ultimate authority. Please provide data on when they reviewed the Governor and precisely the ammo they evaluated. What was the distance, penetration? Guess what, ballistic tests are the closest representation to human tissue I've heard of. Yet you don't believe they tell the whole story. As I've stated before, they demonstrate penetration objectively. Wound channels are somewhat subjective. But that measure is recognized by the FBI and not by you?? I suppose I'm asking, what do you know about firing a Governor and FBI ballistic testing?

As to whether the sky is blue or not is irrespective of where you live. It's still blue above the clouds.
 
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Mister X said:
I'm not sure what review you're referring to. I'm not aware of having posted any links to TTAG.
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I believe I was confusing the "hating on the judge" review with one on ttag.

He makes no mention of using the handgun number 4 in 410 which would improve patterning. Besides birdshot should not be used for defense. I agree with this after seeing plenty of tests. I do think there are some effective .410 buckshot/buckshot combo rounds. This is after seeing ballistics tests and doing my own patterning.

Also to those saying the cci shot shells in 45 are as effective, this is not the case. There was a guy that posted a video comparison. The handgun 410 in number 4 was far more effective than the cci shotshell.
 
NYlakesider said:
"The Smith and Wesson Governor: Misfit or Misunderstood?" QUOTE OP.







Misfit or Misunderstood is two choices, there should be three choices with the third one being UGLY!
Click to expand...



Apparently people are buying them, so they're only an oddity to us revolver snobs.
 
Mister X said:
I think these spirited debates are often useful for hashing out a given topic and I do enjoy participating. I just like them to be kept civil and harbor no ill will toward anyone simply because they have a differing opinion. I hope that feeling is mutual.

And as to whether or not it's Tuesday... That would depend on where you live. ;)
Click to expand...

See how much fun he can be??
 
Gulfecho said:
I agree with the spirit of a debate. I just don't understand how one can offer a valid opinion with such limited personal experience. You haven't fired a Governor, you ignore valid ballistic tests that have been submitted via this thread. You draw your so called KOLs as the ultimate authority. Please provide data on when they reviewed the Governor and precisely the ammo they evaluated. What was the distance, penetration? Guess what, ballistic tests are the closest representation to human tissue I've heard of. Yet you don't believe they tell the whole story. As I've stated before, they demonstrate penetration objectively. Wound channels are somewhat subjective. But that measure is recognized by the FBI and not by you?? I suppose I'm asking, what do you know about firing a Governor and FBI ballistic testing?

As to whether the sky is blue or not is irrespective of where you live. It's still blue above the clouds.
Click to expand...

I'm not ignoring the ballistics tests, I've watched them all. You seem completely fixated on them. Maybe I missed it, but was there something so world-shattering amazing in those tests that should make me want to choose the Governor over what I currently use? Is it your opinion that the ballistic tests for the Governor show it to be superior over everything else available in that regard?

If I go shoot one, what am I supposed to discover? Will I likely find it to be more ergonomic, shootable and accurate than my Glock 17? What am I missing?

My EDC more often than not is a S&W 642. The reasons I chose that particular weapon is because of its advantages in reactive close-quarter scenarios, which I believe are the most likely types of defense situations I'll encounter. The 642 is extremely quick to deploy and offers excellent inherent weapon retention. In a close-quarter struggle, the enclosed hammer is another assurance that it will function in that environment. I also frequently pocket carry.

At home, that 642 is in my pocket most of the time. It's small, light and it's not much of an inconvenience to have it on me at all times. Plus those same close-quarter advantages it offers for CC may very well factor in a home defense scenario as well. If I want to investigate a bump in the night where an intruder could have gained access to the home and is lying in weight ready to ambush, I stick with the 642 because a contact scenario would be likely. The same with numerous other everyday tasks.

In a home defense situation where I had a little more warning with time and distance on my side, I opt for my Glock 17 primarily for capacity.

In the roles I just outlined, how would the Governor be better?

For carry, my opinions based on my experience with the Taurus Judge are that the Governor is not practical to carry in a pocket. It's large size makes it relatively slow and unwieldy in close-quarter handling compared to the 642 . Inherent weapon retention wasn't very good. Just based on these things alone pretty much makes it a no-go for me even if the ballistics, shootability and accuracy are absolutely fantastic.

What about the Governor for home defense in the same role I use the Glock 17? It would probably be fairly workable, but I think the G17 is far superior, so why would I not chose the superior weapon?

And that's what I want you to answer. I already said it's viable in my very first post, but why should I or anyone choose a Governor over other weapons?
 
Mister X said:
It's more of an issue of it not being very good and there being countless better options, so why in the world would anyone choose an inferior weapon when life is on the line?

Why is experts in quotations marks? Are Massad Ayoob, Grant Cunningham, Dr. Gary Roberts, Greg Ellifritz and the late Todd Green not considered experts? You must have some lofty standards. Who then is an expert according to you? Experts can be wrong, but when they all are saying the same thing, I tend to think the consensus is most likely right although I ultimately think for myself. Not all opinions carry equal weight. I've looked, but cannot find any contrary opinions from reputable instructors. Can you provide some articles or at least quotes from some poeple worthy of the being labeled an expert who actually recommend the Governor/Judge and speak highly of it?
Click to expand...

I don't see the experts around my house helping me defend my family. ;) So I take any and all of them with a grain of salt as they are also out to make a living by writing and doing reviews of various things. No biggie though and you or the experts can't convince me that either gun isn't a viable defesive weapon option. Especially when loaded with 45 Auto or 45 Colt ammo.

And you didn't address at all the second part of my post either. You know, the part dealing with the target crowd for these weapons. I don't see them so much as something the folks here would necessarily choose as a first line of defense as we are gun enthusiasts and we tend more to having the appropriate tool for the job. And to me, that would be my wife's model 60 or a high cap autoloader handy in the bedroom and by my chair in the living room sits a loaded 27-2. I don't have kids around the house, so these guns are readily available for my use and I don't have to walk around my house packing heat. But for someone who isn't a gun enthusiast like us here, the Judge or the Governor would make for a nice, all purpose pistol that can be used for multiple jobs such as snake charming or house defense or whatever. If I had several acres of property and had some outbuildings and barns I might even have one myself even though they are ugly, just because of the versatility of shooting shotgun or pistol rounds at critters in them.
 
Mister X said:
I'm not ignoring the ballistics tests, I've watched them all. You seem completely fixated on them. Maybe I missed it, but was there something so world-shattering amazing in those tests that should make me want to choose the Governor over what I currently use? Is it your opinion that the ballistic tests for the Governor show it to be superior over everything else available in that regard?

If I go shoot one, what am I supposed to discover? Will I likely find it to be more ergonomic, shootable and accurate than my Glock 17? What am I missing?

My EDC more often than not is a S&W 642. The reasons I chose that particular weapon is because of its advantages in reactive close-quarter scenarios, which I believe are the most likely types of defense situations I'll encounter. The 642 is extremely quick to deploy and offers excellent inherent weapon retention. In a close-quarter struggle, the enclosed hammer is another assurance that it will function in that environment. I also frequently pocket carry.

At home, that 642 is in my pocket most of the time. It's small, light and it's not much of an inconvenience to have it on me at all times. Plus those same close-quarter advantages it offers for CC may very well factor in a home defense scenario as well. If I want to investigate a bump in the night where an intruder could have gained access to the home and is lying in weight ready to ambush, I stick with the 642 because a contact scenario would be likely. The same with numerous other everyday tasks.

In a home defense situation where I had a little more warning with time and distance on my side, I opt for my Glock 17 primarily for capacity.

In the roles I just outlined, how would the Governor be better?

For carry, my opinions based on my experience with the Taurus Judge are that the Governor is not practical to carry in a pocket. It's large size makes it relatively slow and unwieldy in close-quarter handling compared to the 642 . Inherent weapon retention wasn't very good. Just based on these things alone pretty much makes it a no-go for me even if the ballistics, shootability and accuracy are absolutely fantastic.

What about the Governor for home defense in the same role I use the Glock 17? It would probably be fairly workable, but I think the G17 is far superior, so why would I not chose the superior weapon?

And that's what I want you to answer. I already said it's viable in my very first post, but why should I or anyone choose a Governor over other weapons?
Click to expand...

Versatility. And if you haven't visited the ballistic tests for the .410 Federal 000 buck. Both test showed each of the 4 000 buck penetrating straight through a 12X12 block of gel.
 
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Mister X said:
I'm not ignoring the ballistics tests, I've watched them all. You seem completely fixated on them. Maybe I missed it, but was there something so world-shattering amazing in those tests that should make me want to choose the Governor over what I currently use? Is it your opinion that the ballistic tests for the Governor show it to be superior over everything else available in that regard?



If I go shoot one, what am I supposed to discover? Will I likely find it to be more ergonomic, shootable and accurate than my Glock 17? What am I missing?



My EDC more often than not is a S&W 642. The reasons I chose that particular weapon is because of its advantages in reactive close-quarter scenarios, which I believe are the most likely types of defense situations I'll encounter. The 642 is extremely quick to deploy and offers excellent inherent weapon retention. In a close-quarter struggle, the enclosed hammer is another assurance that it will function in that environment. I also frequently pocket carry.



At home, that 642 is in my pocket most of the time. It's small, light and it's not much of an inconvenience to have it on me at all times. Plus those same close-quarter advantages it offers for CC may very well factor in a home defense scenario as well. If I want to investigate a bump in the night where an intruder could have gained access to the home and is lying in weight ready to ambush, I stick with the 642 because a contact scenario would be likely. The same with numerous other everyday tasks.



In a home defense situation where I had a little more warning with time and distance on my side, I opt for my Glock 17 primarily for capacity.



In the roles I just outlined, how would the Governor be better?



For carry, my opinions based on my experience with the Taurus Judge are that the Governor is not practical to carry in a pocket. It's large size makes it relatively slow and unwieldy in close-quarter handling compared to the 642 . Inherent weapon retention wasn't very good. Just based on these things alone pretty much makes it a no-go for me even if the ballistics, shootability and accuracy are absolutely fantastic.



What about the Governor for home defense in the same role I use the Glock 17? It would probably be fairly workable, but I think the G17 is far superior, so why would I not chose the superior weapon?



And that's what I want you to answer. I already said it's viable in my very first post, but why should I or anyone choose a Governor over other weapons?
Click to expand...



I think it sits in the mix just fine. Accuracy with 45 rounds is great. Weight reduces recoil. In fact, recoil is less in my governor than it is in my fathers full size 45 glock (not sure which, sorry).

Further it allows me versatility in ammo. I like this. It's a big pro for me.

It's the only gun out there that can shoot the longer Lehigh maximum expansion round which looks to be devastating and only expands in flesh (allows for penetration even through thinner materials).

Finally, I like that I can shoot .410. Is it my primary ammo? No but its in the mix for in the house (small home). Up close .410 buck will be devastating and cause more shock and bleeding than a single .45. It is also more likely to damage vital organs due to the multiple projectiles.

There are trade offs which you have mentioned, some of which are good points. There are always trade offs with every firearm.



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It has gotten to the point that arguing the governor is pointless. I will say that none of the pro governor people, including myself, ever said that it should be someone's first choice for defense. However I would not fault someone for it. I think it highly depends on the situation at hand. For me, the governor would be used during a night invasion when firing down a hallway after the alarm sounds. With my 9mm ready to go right behind it.

Should someone carry the governor for defense? I can understand the argument against that, there are a lot of better options for on body protection.

Bottom line is that the gun does serve a valued purpose and also serves as a fun novelty at the same time.

It wasnt my first purchase, it was my 4th, i think that's reasonable.
 
It has gotten to the point that arguing the governor is pointless. I will say that none of the pro governor people, including myself, ever said that it should be someone's first choice for defense. However I would not fault someone for it. I think it highly depends on the situation at hand. For me, the governor would be used during a night invasion when firing down a hallway after the alarm sounds. With my 9mm ready to go right behind it.

Should someone carry the governor for defense? I can understand the argument against that, there are a lot of better options for on body protection.

Bottom line is that the gun does serve a valued purpose and also serves as a fun novelty at the same time.

It wasnt my first purchase, it was my 4th, i think that's reasonable.
 
Might I summarize that the Governor is a viable close quarters home defense, 7 yards or less platform with .45 Colt, .45acp or specialty .410 defensive rounds. Some will agree with this conclusion some won't. It has been a great talking point although a contentious topic, I respect each of you who have voiced your opinion.
 
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Gulfecho said:
Might I summarize that the Governor is a viable close quarters home defense, 7 yards or less platform with .45 Colt, .45acp or specialty .410 defensive rounds. Some will agree with this conclusion some won't. It has been a great talking point although a contentious topic, I respect each of you who have voiced your opinion.
Click to expand...

What would put the discussion to rest, for me, would be some real-world examples of people defending themselves with .410 loads from short barrels (whether the Governor, Judge or Derringer).
If I load my revolver with jacketed hollowpoints, wadcutters or even lead round nose, I have some idea of what to expect based on decades of shootings from armed citizens, LEOs, etc. With .410s all I can really look at are a few videos on YouTube involving ballistic gel.
Maybe I'll have a different opinion in a few years after I can see how these loads actually perform in defensive encounters.
 
Thus this thread ends like most of its predecessors: ad baculum.

Those of us critical of the Governor get tired of posting the obvious failings.
 
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