There's not a single new car I would buy at this point

[Golddollar]

Back when I was still working I decided I had better buy a second Crown Vic, Town Car or Grand Marquis while I still had a paycheck. So with the help of Autotrader I found a beautiful black 2008 Mercury Grand Marquis with 72,000 miles on it and bought it in August 2014. Lots of comfort and convenience without being overwhelming with the bells and whistles. It now has 160,700 miles on it, and except for the scrapes and bent metal I got in parking garage cattle chute it looks like it was in a showroom. It's paid for and since Ford stopped making their V-8s I don't mind putting a car payment's worth of money into it every once in a while to keep it running. I can't envision ever selling it.

Just as a point of reference, this car was a twin to a 2008 Grand Marquis that I bought brand new. I put the other car through the Gettysburg Auto Auction at 238,000 miles and a dealer from Baltimore came up and bought it.

 

[oldbrownhat]

...Plus, a $20 code reader and phone app will tell you what's wrong if you get a check engine light.

And about the same investment will allow some teenager to hack the vehicle and steal it. Supposedly, however, you can spend about $1,000 for special third-party security software to defeat this. Maybe...

Give me only enough electronics to make the vehicle efficient and absolutely no driver monitoring or connectivity to the outside world, at least that can't be turned OFF. And no "apps." Nor infotainmemt screens. I don't need to be "infotained" or distracted with notifications, ie to slow down/keep my head up/breathe etc.

 

[Tom S.]

Not even close.

You can buy a BT dongle that will plug into the OBD port for $20 and download an app that will read the codes. So yeah, REAL CLOSE.

 

[Tom S.]

And about the same investment will allow some teenager to hack the vehicle and steal it. Supposedly, however, you can spend about $1,000 for special third-party security software to defeat this. Maybe...

Give me only enough electronics to make the vehicle efficient and absolutely no driver monitoring or connectivity to the outside world, at least that can't be turned OFF. And no "apps." Nor infotainmemt screens. I don't need to be "infotained" or distracted with notifications, ie to slow down/keep my head up/breathe etc.

If you are worried about theft, invest in a Ravelco anti-theft device. They claim there hasn't been a vehicle stolen using one of their devices in 48 years.

 

[Ματθιας]

Will a new car, fresh off the lot, last as long as my late 70s F150 or my late 90s CrownVic?

I would bet on average, yes - or longer.

Moderator, Tom S. Why did you edit my post?

Was it because you didn't like what I posted?

Whatever.

 

[LVSteve]

I think the turbos, hybrids are to increase milage #s for the mfrs vehicle lines. And we're told they are nice things for us.... until they break.
I would have to drive 50k a year to even consider the minor fuel savings.
Just my opinion

It's not about the gas mileage for the customer, it's about meeting the ever tightening CAFE average fleet mileage numbers. Meanwhile, consumers keep wanting large vehicles with more and more safety. Those factor equal weight, the bane of anyone trying to make an economical vehicle. So these opposing requirements lead to an ever increasing spiral of complexity and flat out stupid ideas so the manufacturers can avoid being fined for missing the CAFE targets.

 

[STCM(SW)]

Think Ill keep my 1999 Tahoe. Still doesn't have 100K miles on it and is made out of steel....

 

[SLT223]

You can buy a BT dongle that will plug into the OBD port for $20 and download an app that will read the codes. So yeah, REAL CLOSE.

OK, but then what? Reading codes is just the starting point for diagnostics, which it can't run. Reading the codes isn't even half the battle...unless you have an OBD1 vehicle like that white Blazer up there. Current cars require access to data streams, and abilities to tap diagnostic functions. Same could be said for OBD1, but there's so few components, and all issues are basically known at this point, that it isn't necessary most times. In fact I've never in all 28 years owning that Blazer. For something made in the last few years, it's VERY helpful to have subscriptions to continuously updated professional diagnostic information like AllData, which as you can guess isn't free.

Not trying to start an argument here, but I know my way around this stuff, and a $20 code reader isn't going to get you too far since it can't run diagnostics, let alone program anything. Unless it can for $20? And when a module goes bad that $20 device isn't going to download the $300 program license, the program, and upload it into your car. Looking stuff up on the interwebs might prove helpful for know issues, but still not a diagnosis. With the price of some of these components, I'd sure like to know if I'm dealing with a bad ground, bad wire, module, short, etc. If a $20 bluetooth/OBD2 reader is seriously all it took to diagnose modern vehicles for proper repair, I wouldn't have started this thread. Might not even have that Blazer. I'd be a happy camper with my new, modern, smart car that break checks at road plates.....because it would be fixable by me, the user, with common tools.

 

[TeamPB]

In my opinion the OP speaks much wisdom, but

I bought a new Sino-Swedish car in July. We were a one car family, with that car being 11 years old (still great). The car we bought was a station wagon, not many to choose from. I waited 7 years from the V90s introduction until my mechanics said buy one, albeit with an extended warranty. The dealer drove my car for 1000mi so they could sell to me as a CPO, 4 plus years unlimited miles warranty included. I added 5 years after it ends to 125k. I have never purchased a warranty in my life, but now I wouldn't own a new car without it. The CPO discount was immense, we use it for road trips. The boys and our firearms travel in acceptable comfort.

 

[Muss Muggins]

CAFE has never been a thing. 2026 is like 49 mpg fleetwide.
Ain't happening . . .

It's not about the gas mileage for the customer, it's about meeting the ever tightening CAFE average fleet mileage numbers. Meanwhile, consumers keep wanting large vehicles with more and more safety. Those factor equal weight, the bane of anyone trying to make an economical vehicle. So these opposing requirements lead to an ever increasing spiral of complexity and flat out stupid ideas so the manufacturers can avoid being fined for missing the CAFE targets.

 

[Moo Moo]

“Adaptive Cruise Control” on new vehicles drive me crazy! It’s on my wife’s 2020 Mazda CX30. Thank my lucky stars it’s not on my 2016 Mazda CX-5.

 

[ameridaddy]

Anyone else sick of the over complexity of these things and their high price for the displeasure? Ever since the CAN/BUS system all these things are a nightmare. Now we got what, 8, 9 computers in a vehicle fed by how many sensors? Apparently, KIA has an issue where the back up camera can brick the whole car. No one seems to know how this crud works. I don't even want to see what a complete list of DTC's looks like today. I don't need or want a computer between me and my window regulator, seat motor, HVAC, etc. I can tolerate ONE of them for the motor tune, and MAYBE the transmission. That's it. Oh, and no push button shift. I'll take that mechanical linkage that never shorts out, thank you very much.

Man oh MAN am I glad I hung on to this thing. 156k on the clock, 31 years old next month, and EVERYTHING WORKS! EVERYTHING!!!!! U joints are $8, wheel cylinder $6, air filter $13, AC Delco plugs and wires $50, so and and so forth and I can do it all myself. The way things are going today, if I can't fix it myself I don't want it. 3rd party is just too unreliable and expensive. Oh yeah, and no more emissions testing on this rig because it's 25+ years old. Would love to find a clean 90's K2500 suburban locally, but that's not going to happen.

The one computer in this Blazer is an 8-bit processor with a PROM chip like the old Nintendo Entertainment System, and it never tells me what to do, unlike my 2019 Pilot. It's like engineers back then must have assumed people's cranial processor was accustomed to taking in data, making useful information out it, and then making appropriate decisions. The Pilot can almost do that as well as me but it likes to lock up the brakes when it approached a road plate....

By the way, my highschool ID card is still in the center console along with a best-of Jimi Hendrix cassette tape. I've been rocking this truck 28 years. Just hasn't been a daily driver the whole time due to a couple other more modern cars that helped me really appreciate the Blazer when they failed me. What loyal piece of equipment. Just loyal!

And it doesn't look like it was styled with a hatchet and the back of a shovel to make it look like a Star Wars prop. Lemme know if you want to sell that beauty!

I have a 2001 BMW that was a retirement present from me to me, and my mechanic says he loves working on my car, because it has only 6 microprocessors. He has a $300,000 analyzer, and says the new BMWs have more than 100 microprocessors, like most current cars. He gripes that he puts one on the analyzer Friday afternoon, and when he comes to work Monday morning, the analyzer is still trying to figure out what the problem is.

A few months ago, I was at a body shop and saw what looked like a nearly new (it was 3 years old) Hyundai, or maybe Honda...with a badly smashed front fender. I asked the shop manager if it was about a $5,000 repair, and he said it was totaled because it destroyed the wiring harness in that area! It turns out that the genius designers save a penny by not using plugs in the wiring harness. Instead of having separate trunk, interior, dash and engine harnesses connected by bulkhead plugs, it was one continuous harness through the whole car. That meant to replace it at $9,000 for the harness, pretty near the whole car had to be disassembled to route the new harness.
Ever wonder why your car insurance is steadily rising more than inflation?

 

[JMD999]

It's not about the gas mileage for the customer, it's about meeting the ever tightening CAFE average fleet mileage numbers.

thats how i see it

 

[charlie sherrill]

They quit making the Crown Vic/Marquis in 2011. If they started making them again I would go buy one tomorrow. That said, I bought a 2017 Toyota Sienna with 2,000 miles on it in 2017 and I haven't had any trouble out of it at all. It's got 150,000 on the clock. I called my salesman a while back and told him I might be interested in something newer and he asked me how many miles I had on it. When I told him he told me to drive it another 150,000 and call him back.

 

[Doug M.]

We have been pretty happy with our Subarus, and with them paid for, the little annoyances can be tolerated. Since I can't drive, my wife is driving my car when have to go anywhere together. I have noticed that the Ascent has a lot of road noise and don't like it. I have long been accustomed to the way cruise works, so I am ok with it. My wife has a hard time with it in part because it is not like hers.

I have been reading the owner's manual on our Western Star, a class 8 semi to be converted to n RV. it is hundreds of 8.5X11 pages. Just the dash display section is 30-40 pages. I am sure that setting it up allowed when I am allowed to drive will be "fun".

 

[Tom S.]

it should be obvious that the moderator took offense at what you said.. its obvious.

gosh, all moderators have this little urge to alter things to suite their tastes and prejudices.

What is obvious is moderators have opinions too and what I posted was my opinion. Don't try to make it more than that.

 

[s&wchad]

Will a new car, fresh off the lot, last as long as my late 70s F150 or my late 90s CrownVic?

I would bet on average, yes - or longer.

Moderator, Tom S. Why did you edit my post?

Was it because you didn't like what I posted?

Whatever.

I looked at the post edit history.
Here's what you originally posted:

Will a new car, fresh off the lot, last as long as my late 70s F150 or my late 90s CrownVic?

I suspect Tom inadvertently edit you post, instead of replying to your quote. I believe this was his intent:

Will a new car, fresh off the lot, last as long as my late 70s F150 or my late 90s CrownVic?

I would bet on average, yes - or longer.

IMO, it was an honest mistake and he didn't remove any of your content. Tom contributes a lot of his time moderating the forum and does an excellent job.

 

[WardenRoss]

The staff here, moderators and all, deserve our appreciation for the job they do. I don't know if the average member knows it, but the moderators have a thankless job and donate their time and energy to help us keep a civil place to promote our appreciation of firearms.

If they edited one of my posts, I have enough respect for them to not "call them out" but would send a PM and go with a respectful question. They don't lightly edit any post and everything they do has an audit trail that the Big Guy can review their actions.

So...give the mods their due respect.

BACK TO THE SUBJECT...

I remember, many years ago, when my favorite uncle bought a new Chevy. He was a heavy vehicle mechanic in the Army in the European Theater WWII.

He would only own a 6 cylinder, standard shift, zero options, Chevy Biscayne.

In his opinion, anything else was just "fluff" and a problem waiting to happen. I can still remember Aunt Eunice, a car full of kids, wheeling into Piggly Wiggly with no power-steering or brakes, three-on-the-tree, windows all down. 95° in a south Georgia summer.

Then there came along the VW-Bug...Gotta have simple...vehicle club...




,

 

[Tom S.]

I looked at the post edit history.
Here's what you originally posted:



I suspect Tom inadvertently edit you post, instead of replying to your quote. I believe this was his intent:


IMO, it was an honest mistake and he didn't remove any of your content. Tom contributes a lot of his time moderating the forum and does an excellent job.

Totally a screw up on my part. I must have hit Edit instead of Quote. With all the bouncing around dealing with spammers/scammers - sometimes I'd have 10 windows open at the same time - I screwed up as Chad guessed.

 

[Rat458]

The car companies are going to run their customers away.
Seems they are not interested in selling what the customer wants,they are driven by pushing highly optioned vehicles.
Sold a 2007 BMW and bought a 2023 Mazda,wife still tells me the worst mistake we made.
I think she is right.