This is the revolver S&W needs to build ... [added info - Post 17]

mc5aw

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Continuing a recent post about the Taurus 445 ...

After three decades of collecting S&W revolvers, I went against my better judgment and purchased a non-S&W on a whim. Of the 100+ S&Ws I've owned during the last 30 years, this is only the third instance when I have strayed from the fold, (having owned a Colt DS years ago, and recently adding a Ruger Alaskan in .44 Magnum), and my decision was based almost exclusively on caliber. I found a lightly used DAO Taurus Model 445 in .44 Special (serial # 0G545xxx), and was intrigued by its CCW potential. As a long time S&W aficionado, I'm not unrealistic in my expectations and was prepared to evaluate the 445 on the merits, not on hearsay or urban legend.

After extensive research before and after the purchase, (with countless negative comments and reviews to sort through), I almost expected the 445 to break apart in my hands. Fortunately, the revolver felt solid, looked good, had no timing issues, and appeared to be free from obvious QC problems, thus making my foray into the Taurus line fairly comfortable. I took the 445 to the range this afternoon for some hands-on testing, and fired 50 rounds of factory HSM 240 grain JHPs in fairly short order. I had no FTFs, jams, etc., and the 445 held up well. Shooting distance was 15', DAO fire was measured and controlled. [The photo shows my Shoot'n'See target with an acceptable grouping for self defense purposes. A second target had a wider grouping attributable mostly to shooter fatigue rather than any inherent weaknesses in the revolver.]

Fit & Finish: The bluing is excellent, and everything fits together seamlessly. Screw heads are clean, and there are no machining marks to be seen anywhere. Overall, a good looking and nicely assembled example of a Model 445.

Mechanical: The DA was crisp and not nearly as tough as expected. I'm uncertain if an aftermarket spring kit was previously installed, but trigger pull was not much different than the average S&W, nor did it have the grittiness that many people claim. I was unable to stage the 445's trigger as I can with a S&W, and on three occasions the trigger didn't feel like it reset properly, resulting in a short draw on the next trigger pull (and an unexpectedly fast follow-up shot).

The cylinder has no play or slop whatsoever, and spins freely when disengaged. Nothing came loose during or after firing. One additional note is that the revolver heated up considerably after 10 rounds. By the 50th round, the 445 was very hot to the touch, and hotter than any S&W I have owned.

The fixed sight has a wide rear channel and black front blade. It is easy to acquire, and gets on target immediately. I found it superior to an adjustable sight, and will test it next time out with point shooting.

Grip: The smooth rubber grip (with enclosed backstrap) absorbed recoil as well as any Hogue or Pachmayr, and has a thin concealable profile. After 50 rounds fired in under 30 minutes, I experienced no pain in my shooting hand or lingering discomfort. The grip fit my hand perfectly, allowing for a high hold and a very comfortable two-hand stance. (This rubber grip may or may not have been a replacement for a Taurus Ribber grip, as I'm not sure what originally came on the 445). This grip would be ideal for male/female shooters with average/medium sized hands.

Pros:
-Excellent value. For the price ($425), there are few offerings in the .44 Special CCW category that compare favorably (perhaps a good, older Charter Arms or Rossi 720). Used S&Ws in .44 Special are averaging twice what this 445 cost me.

-Perfect revolver for CCW. Make no mistake, the 445 is not a range tool, but a dedicated carry piece. The DAO design and K/L-sized snubby frame make it ideal for everyday carry. Weighing in at ~ 25oz, there is enough mass to absorb .44 Special recoil, while not being too heavy for CCW. In comparison, the lightweight S&W 296 weighs ~ 19oz and is a beast to shoot, the alloy NGs are close in weight, while the all steel S&W 696 is nearly identical to the 445 (albeit with a 3" barrel). I have seen Taurus titanium models in .44 Special, but I'll stay with the all-steel frame.

-Unlike new Taurus revolvers, this 445 has no key activated safety mechanism on the hammer spine. (I have not pinpointed the exact mfg date on this 445, but assume it to be early-mid 2000s). This is a big plus for the anti-IL crowd.

Cons:
-Like the S&W 696, the 445's forcing cone and cylinder chamber walls are very thin. This is not as big an issue for a moderate use revolver, but I wouldn't be any more comfortable with the 696 for heavy usage.

-The extractor star failed to forcefully eject spent casings, leaving two hanging pieces of brass (out of five) each time, but this is a minor concern since the brass was easily dumped or pulled out by hand. Not once did I experience a casing lodged deep in a chamber.

-The Taurus reputation is a big obstacle for potential buyers, and nearly prevented me from purchasing this 445. Did I get the lone diamond in the rough? Perhaps, but I'm happy that there were no QC problems that arose during the 445's inaugural range session.

Overall thoughts: I am pleasantly surprised at how comfortable the 445 is to shoot, and its solid construction. After 50 rounds, I came away very impressed with the 445 as a medium-frame big bore CCW revolver. While today's work won't be mistaken for precision bullseye shooting, the 445 showed itself to be very capable at 15', putting every round on target. There is no doubt that the 445 would do sufficient damage against two- or four-legged predators at similar distance. Though I don't have enough trigger time yet to confidently stake my life on the 445 as I do with my various S&Ws, the 445 performed well enough that I wouldn't hesitate to bring it along as a back-up to anything else I'm carrying. From all the negative reviews of Taurus products I had read, I expected the 445 to rate as a 2/3 out of 10, and no better than a 6 if I got lucky. Instead, I have a 445 that rates as a strong 8 after its first outing. I'm hopeful that future range work will be as positive.

The crux of the matter: The Taurus 445 fits the CCW niche perfectly ... easy to carry and shoot, large caliber, steel construction, DAO, and moderately priced on the used market. Ironically, the 445 was discontinued as were it's S&W counterparts (296, 696, and Night Guards), leaving this corner of the CCW market wide open. It is everything that S&W should be producing to take advantage of the growing number of CCW holders, and I think the Mother Ship is missing an opportunity. Yes, I know the Night Guard line was a great idea that didn't sell, but I believe it was due to the high price point rather than public interest. I eagerly awaited the NGs, but when I finally found them at the LGS I was put off by the $900 tags. If S&W could produce an all steel 445 model of its own in the $750 range, it would be a potential home run. Taurus produced a sibling to the 445 (the 455) in .45 ACP, which would make for another attractive offering by S&W. Forget the alloy guns for CCW ... they're too expensive for most folks ... and forget another .38/.357 model. Two dedicated big bore CCW snub revolvers built on the K/L frame at moderate prices would be welcome additions to the current S&W catalogue. The 445 is almost identical in dimensions to a 66/686 snub, and has less recoil than a J-frame with +Ps. What's not to like?
 

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There is a reason both S&W and Taurus discontinued the models you mention. There was simply not a big enough market for them.

Shawn ... I completely agree with you, but the CCW sector of the market has changed dramatically over the past 18 months. The lack of demand that sealed various models' fates before 2013, may not be as prevalent in today's marketplace. The average person new to CCW is looking for comfort ... both in carry options and in chosen caliber. I'd think a K/L frame snub in .44 Special or .45 ACP, all steel construction with fixed sights, that is concealable and does not have punishing recoil would be a very attractive option for anyone wanting more horsepower in a carry piece. I have no idea what number of units need to sell to make a given model profitable, but everything currently offered by S&W can't be selling equally. If given the choice between similar snub revolver platforms with equivalent handling attributes, how many CCW holders would go with the larger caliber? I certainly would, and most of my revolver friends would do also.

Perhaps it's just wishful thinking ...
 
Well, the factory said "never again" to the K frame .357, until they didn't...

The 696-2 (IL and all) was produced just a few years ago. The model 69 already has the multi-piece .44 L frame barrel, and a fixed sight version in .44 Special would have less machining than the adjustable sight version. Now to convince the marketing folks :).
 
I have always been a big fan of the Taurus L-frame sized 5 shot carry guns going all the way back to the introduction of the 415 and 415T at the turn of the last century. YES, it was that long ago

415pair-s.jpg


These little 41 Magnums have been carried with me on many occasions when I felt a 357 would not be enough.

Even the Total Titanium model 415T was not that expensive of a revolver at the time. In addition to the calibers already mentioned, Taurus also offered these L-framed sized pistols in 45 LC.

Now a big bore snubby can scare away the shooter as often as it scares away a potential wrongdoer. Even light loads twist and turn in a 2" barrel significantly more than a 38 does.

The bulk of the CCW buying public does not think like the few thousand enthusiasts that frequent this Forum. Designs, concepts and ideas that might appear to be no brainers to us would never enter the minds of 95%+ of the folks that buy a snubby for personal protection.

We are a tiny minority of the gun buying market
 
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Well written review. I'm not sure if I'd take the plunge and try a Taurus myself, but with 44 Special's thinning out in the industry they might be an option for some.

I'm also a big fan of the caliber and I know it's not a DA but I'll mention that if you ever come across one of Ruger's 44 Spl. Bisley Blackhawk's, in my opinion they are some of the best 44 Specials still in production.

Ruger® New Model Blackhawk® Distributor Exclusives Single-Action Revolver Model 5236
 
After very bad experiences with three dysfunctional NIB Taurus handguns, I'll never consider buying another. They're not worth the financial risk.
 
Thank you mc5aw for a well written and objective report on this revolver. I have eight Taurus guns, well nine as of Monday, when I pick up a titanium snub in 45 Colt. Of these guns eight are revolvers, three titanium .357s, one titanium 45 colt (now 2), one ultralite in 45 Colt, one 38 ultralite titanium, one .41 magnum in stainless, also a stainless 1911. All but 2 are shot on a regular basis, about once a month, a couple hundred rounds between them. Two of the titaniums are new in the box and are worth more than double what I paid, so they will remain unfired. I have had exactly one problem with any of them. That was with my 45 Colt ultralite. The ejector rod came loose, nothing some blue loctite and a good tightening didn't take care of.

Are the actions as smooth as my Smith's? Well no, and yes. They cannot compare to my K, L and N frames with the leaf style springs for smoothness, but are quite like my J frames with the coil style springs.

I too believe Smith is missing the boat by not offering a big bore snub for concealed carry at an affordable price. I am hoping they offer the new model 69 in a snubnose version.

 
Yep, some big bore, as in .40+ would be welcome in the snubbie category.
Especially .44. I don't know why they don't do it other than market demand for high cap sub caliber guns.
I guess they are going to go where the money is. That's business.
 
I have an old and very nice Taurus model 441 (.44 SPL 5 shot) with a 4 inch barrel. It has the best out of the box double action, maybe the best period, I have ever handled-beautiful bluing and accurate, so I know where you're coming from.
 
I am also a fan of Taurus. After buying a PT-145, PT-1911, and a Raging Bull in 454 Casull, I have had zero issues with them. I shoot the 1911 at a rate of 70 rounds most weeks. Somewhere I read that Smith had a financial stake in Taurus and has shared some design engineering work.
 
Continuing a recent post about the Taurus 445 ...
I went against my better judgment ..................evaluate the 445 on the merits, not on hearsay or urban legend.

......revolver felt solid, looked good, had no timing issues, and appeared to be free from obvious QC problems........

Fit & Finish: ....Overall, ...good looking and nicely assembled....

Mechanical: DA was crisp ........trigger pull was not much different than the average S&W..........on three occasions the trigger didn't feel like it reset properly, resulting in a short draw on the next trigger pull (and an unexpectedly fast follow-up shot).

...cylinder has no play or slop ...., and spins freely ....

The fixed sight ......... easy to acquire, and gets on target immediately........

Pros:
-Excellent value.........
-Perfect revolver for CCW.........

Cons:
-forcing cone and cylinder chamber walls are very thin.

-The extractor star failed to forcefully eject spent casings, leaving two hanging pieces of brass ....

Overall thoughts: ...comfortable..........solid construction.....very impressed...... rates as a strong 8...

The crux of the matter: The Taurus 445 fits the CCW niche perfectly .......

..........but the CCW sector of the market has changed dramatically.........The average person new to CCW is looking for..................I have no idea what number of units need to sell to make a given model profitable, but everything currently offered by S&W can't be selling equally. If given the choice between similar snub revolver platforms with equivalent handling attributes, how many CCW holders would go with the larger caliber?
...

Mc5aw,
Thanks for a scholarly everyman practical review and follow up.

"I went against my better judgment.." - It sounds like you DID use your better judgment in evaluating your decision to buy it. I think you went against "hearsay", "urban legend", or conventional wisdom - after the rumors, gossip, and innuendo ... everything else is just a lie. I would have missed out on many interesting experiences if I had not occasionally bucked conventional wisdom.

The only "problems" I see is the failure to forcefully eject spent casings and "the trigger didn't feel like it reset properly." I would suspect more use and cleaning the chambers would alleviate that issue with ejecting the spent casings (?). Please give us more follow up on the issue with the trigger reset.

You are correct that the conceal carry market has significantly changed recently. In regards to markets, design offerings, and availability a very logical answer I received recently from a long-time LGS owner is that S&W is at full production and they have a higher profit margin on plastic guns versus revolvers and sell all the plastic guns they can make, hence the relative scarcity of revolvers and possibly the lack of an offering similar to the Taurus 445 in .44 special.

John
Scoundrel and Ne'er-Do-Well in Training
 
Once had a 4 inch in stainless with adjustable sights. Very nice and was the size of a K frame 38 Special, almost. A number of other versions were also made. I think the price of ammo is what kills the 44 Special.

There is now a Rossi 44 Magnum available with a 2 inch barrel. Made by Taurus it has fixed sights. All steel and I like the front sight as it is in a dovetail. You can set the windage. Last one I saw was $369.00 at Academy Sports.

Taurus is also making a alloy framed 2 inch 44 Special. A LGS has one for $369.00 in blue and the stainless is a little more.

Had a bunch of 44 Specials over the years. Would like to have them all back. Down to just one: Second Model Hand Ejector 6 and 1/2 inch.
 
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Thank you to everyone who took the time to read my commentary, as well as those who replied. As I continue to think of the viability for a 445-type revolver in the S&W product line, I did some cursory research and found some interesting information.

For purposes of discussion, I consider a dedicated CCW revolver to have a barrel length < 3". Of the current S&W revolvers listed on the company website, there are the following snubs:

35 J-frame models with < 3" barrels.
1 K/L-frame model (686 Plus) with < 3" barrel.
3 N-frame models (329PD Backpacker, 627, 629) with < 3" barrels.
7 Performance Center models (637 Wyatt, TALO 637, TALO 642, 686, 327, 627, 629) models with < 3" barrels.
1 Classic (36) with < 3" barrel.

These numbers show the overwhelming focus on snubnose revolvers comes via the J-frame platform and evidence a sizable void in medium frame offerings for CCW. With three dozen J-frames to choose from, it seems that any given model could be replaced with a K/L snub in a large caliber, even with limited production runs. Using the 445 as the example, a medium frame, all steel, fixed site CCW revolver would require minimal R&D based on what S&W currently markets, merely requiring large caliber cylinders and barrels be produced and retrofitted to existing K/L frames. Obviously it's not as simple as that sounds, but no new technology need be employed, nor exotic materials utilized. Since S&W has produced the 296 and 696 in the past, the know-how is there, and would require adequate demand to put a K/L .44 or .45 into production.

Now as to the aforementioned demand, here is some data from the S&W investor site on the company's latest revenues, etc.

Investors - Press Releases - Smith & Wesson

S&W is currently enjoying a sales renaissance based on the overwhelming national interest in firearms, much of which is centered on self defense needs. With so many people entering the CCW arena, I think some savvy marketing efforts could promote a S&W version of the 445 into profitability for those wanting revolver reliability on a medium-sized frame, mated to large caliber. I recall the 242s and 296s being produced in the ~5,000 range. Based on today's demand for quality carry guns, an average of 100 buyers per state wouldn't be unrealistic. I bet 50+ Forum members would pony up for a slick K/L sized DAO .44 Special or .45 ACP if S&W indulged us with an attractive price point. Find the happy design medium between the 640 and 629 Carry Comp, get it to market ~ $750, promote it as the better alternative to .380 and 9mm semis, a horsepower upgrade to .38 Special revolvers, and a perfect CCW revolver for civilian or LEO back-up usage.

I'm going to gather my thoughts and notes, then forward a formalized pitch to the S&W Marketing Dept. The Mothership has listened to the public before, so perhaps an ear will be lent to the big bore snub idea of an average CCW citizen, and dedicated S&W enthusiast.
 
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I know this is an old thread bump, but I didn't want to start a new thread since there were multiple search results, and this one contains some really good info.

I'm probably buying a blued Taurus 445 on Tuesday. I've got such a serious hankerin' for more 44spl snubbies... I can't wait any longer. I've scorned myself for missing out on a nicely priced Rossi 720C last week, and I really hate myself for missing out on a SWEET perfect carry patina'd first gen Charter Arms Bulldog this week. I even tried to make a couple deals on a couple Rossi R44's, but I think the first one of this bunch I'll be acquiring will be the 445, and I've found one I don't think I can let slip away like I have these past couple weeks.

I feel like this is the comprehensive list of sweet non-S&W 44spl snubbies, for the most part. The Taurus 431 deserves a mention too, but these others are more desirable to me.

Now to find some nice wood grain grips for it. Ideally I'd want a Pachmyer Compact type shape and size, except made of wood.

In response to the above post, I couldn't possibly buy one fast enough if S&W made another 44spl identical in configuration to the 445, even with the bobbed hammer version. It would have to be sans lock though or I would probably think twice.
 
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Have a 445 ultra light, and it makes a fine carry gun. Low priced when bought, and did not hesitate to break the sharp edges off the frame and trigger. Also put the small rubbers on, and got a Theis hybird holster for it. It ain't a range fun pistol and learned not to dry fire it as the firing pin spring quickly broke.
 
19 ounce Taurus Titanium in 45 Long Colt . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .:eek:

LOL... I gave that one a look. Pretty freakin awesome if you ask me. I'll bet a super hot loaded 45 Colt would be brutal out of that thing. Alas, I must feed my 44spl addiction :)
 
I have a Rossi 720C and the Taurus 445UL. While the cult status the Rossi has attained hasn't caught up with the Taurus I think it will.....eventually. My Taurus is well finished and mechanically excellent. The Rossi's finish has some marks that maybe from a previous owner or the factory but nothing I can't remedy with a scotchbrite pad.
Both of mine are nice guns.
 
Between my family and I there are a total of 5 Taurus brand firearms in my household, I've never had any issues with any of them.

I've said it before and I'll say it as many times as the subject is raised, the issue with Taurus isn't lack of quality or reliability, but rather terrible QC/CS, which in turn has resulted in the illusion that a lack of overall quality/reliability is the issue due to the sheer amount of negative feedback from those who got a lemon and had to deal with Taurus' inept CS Representatives and couldn't reach a positive conclusion.
In reality, Taurus has no worse overall quality control than Ruger, but unlike Taurus, Ruger actually has very good Customer Service, ergo those who get a lemon tend to get the issue sorted out promptly, thus leaving them with a much more positive opinion of the company.

It also doesn't help matters that many folks have a bad habit of making Taurus' reputation for lack of reliability something of a self-fulfilled prophesy when they go in so expecting the firearm to fail that any hiccups they experience during their first trip out to the range get immediately self-diagnosed as symptoms of a much bigger problem when in reality the gun just needs broken in. (And before anyone says, "My Smith ain't need no break-in!" Your Smith & Wesson probably cost you 2x the amount of a Taurus.)
In addition, I've seen a lot of folks in videos online who really seem to neglect their Taurus firearms, handling them with far less care than they do their other firearms, and thus likely neglecting them even furthermore behind the scenes. You can't expect a firearm that you neglect, handle carelessly, and do not clean/lube on a regular basis to maintain perfect function/reliability.
 
I have a Taurus 44C, which is the 44 magnum exposed hammer DA/SA version of the same gun in the OP.

At just under 20 ounces, to say it is a handful with full bore magnum rounds is a major understatement.

The 44C is one of a half dozen Taurus/Rossi guns in my collection. It has been flawless - as have all the rest of them.

Admittedly I don't shoot thousands of rounds through any of them, but I don't through my Smiths, or Colts, or and of the other two dozen brands I own.

If I did I might have a different experience, but since I don't, and likely never will, and I don't sell my guns, the stuff the Taurus bashers post is a non-issue.
 
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I was diligently searching for a Rossi 720 (or similar) when a reasonably priced 696 showed up here a year or two back. Right after acquiring it, I stumbled across a used Taurus 445. Very lightly used.

Since I wasn't even aware that they made one, & figuring I'd never see another, I snagged it too. For less than 1/2 the cost of the Smith. The serial dates it back to '89 IIRC. Solid stainless steel 5 shooter, closer to the K frame than the L framed 5 shot 696.

The 696 has a much better trigger, that is easily staged in double action, and the 445 has a wide smooth trigger that pulls very lightly, up until it breaks cleanly, but not way to stage it. Being smaller, the 445 carries much easier, and is quite reliable & accurate.

I'm keeping both for now. :D
 

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Finding a less expensive alternative that fills your requirements is always fun. You can buy a lot of ammo for the price difference in a lot of cases. S&W does not have a monopoly on making good guns (just ask the Colt guys), but we pay a premium because they have proven themselves for generations and we like them. I too have 90% S&W but for 1911's I stray to Springfield and Rock Island products and enjoy the results. I hope that your Taurus 445 serves you and your heirs well.
 
I have both the 445UL and the Taurus 617 (steel frame 7 shot 357 MAG), and I have posted many times that S&W really need to steal the idea of a oversized cylinder in a smaller frame. I would buy both in a second.

That said, I have recently found a old beat up Charter Arms Bulldog and am going to have a local smith cut down the barrel to two inches for pocket carry. It may make the 445UL obsolete for me.
 
LOL... I gave that one a look. Pretty freakin awesome if you ask me. I'll bet a super hot loaded 45 Colt would be brutal out of that thing. Alas, I must feed my 44spl addiction :)
That Taurus 450T is loaded with the Barnes 200 grain solid copper HP. As far as 45 LC ammunition goes, it is not too hot

However, that opening is so big on the front of those projectiles that you could drop a small child in there :)

I beta test 10MM Auto ammunition for Barnes, so the good folks found it in their heart to send me some 45 Long Colt and 41 Magnum when I asked

barnes41bs.jpg

If you want a wrist-full, I have the same Total Titan snub in 41 Magnum as pictured toward the start of this thread

415t-s.jpg

Run some full magnums thorough that :eek:
 
Let us know how you like it. Since the original posting I have picked up a few more Taurus Titanium revolvers. The top one is a 445 Ti in .44 special, the one in the middle is a 731 Ti in .32 magnum, the bottom is a model 905 ib Ti, a 9mm in their mini frame, in titanium. Supposedly they never released this model, only one I have ever seen.

 

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