Hello everyone. I have considered carrying my M&P 22 for CCW just due to size compared to my SD9VE 9mm. What are your thoughts about this? I know the 22 is probably not the optimal weapon but really like it. Just curious. Thanks.
Thoughts on 22 for CCW
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Slowhanddd
Member
It sure beats a rock.Also,wouldn't want to be shot with a 22.Most who have them can put holes close together.
I know it will not drop someone like a 9 or 40 or something but for me, those are just to big and bulky to carry for my comfort. I have considered buying one of the compact models but just haven't made it that far yet. I also think a 22 bullet, much less several, can get inside the body and bounce and richochet around and do some pretty good damage.
Where I live, dogs are likely the biggest threat.
This one should handle the threat nicely with Velocitors:
This one should handle the threat nicely with Velocitors:
If you like it, carry good ammo and it's reliable then it sounds good to me. It sounds like you understand the terminal ballistics of the round.
I'm very tempted to get a .22 LCR or 43c to occasionally carry and plink with. I do love reading older spy stories where .22's were carried. I'd love a little pocket .22 and suppressor to mess with.
I'm very tempted to get a .22 LCR or 43c to occasionally carry and plink with. I do love reading older spy stories where .22's were carried. I'd love a little pocket .22 and suppressor to mess with.
A Cherokee friend of mine got her Virginia carry permit, tried a variety of guns including my snubby and found that she's the most comfortable with a Ruger SR22. She asked for one of my custom holsters and wanted it to be a thumb break owb concealment holster in natural leather. She practices head/neck shots at the range.
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A couple of years ago I was routinely carrying a very reliable 22 auto
pistol I own even though I knew better. I love the gun for it's light
weight, flatness and handling qualities. Then one evening I decided
to do some penetration testing in water soaked news papers. I tried
the 22 auto along with similar guns in 32 and 380 auto as well as a
much smaller gun in 25 auto. I was a bit shocked at the results. How
much more penetration the 25 gave over the 22 not to even mention
the performance of the 32 and 380. The 22 ammo was HV 40 gr solids
compared to FMJ in the others and I have never carried the 22 since.
No, it's not for sale, I still love it but I'll carry something else for self
defense.
pistol I own even though I knew better. I love the gun for it's light
weight, flatness and handling qualities. Then one evening I decided
to do some penetration testing in water soaked news papers. I tried
the 22 auto along with similar guns in 32 and 380 auto as well as a
much smaller gun in 25 auto. I was a bit shocked at the results. How
much more penetration the 25 gave over the 22 not to even mention
the performance of the 32 and 380. The 22 ammo was HV 40 gr solids
compared to FMJ in the others and I have never carried the 22 since.
No, it's not for sale, I still love it but I'll carry something else for self
defense.
A 22LR is better than nothing, but I would seriously recommend you carry at least a 380 or a 38 special...
That being said, I bought a 2" Mod 34 several years ago to be a second gun to carry when in the woods. I do a lot of hunting many times in remote areas alone, and I belived with the 22LR I could carry a lot more ammo, on my person 100% of the time. I always have a 44 Mag or a 45 ACP along as well.
So I practiced a LOT with the 2" S&W until I could hit the plates on the plate rack on my range from 25 yards. The plates are about 8" in diameter.
I can hit them fairly quickly even DA.
Also where I hunt in Texas there are a lot of snakes. Just last deer season I killed 4 rattlers, and one copperhead, and this turkey season I killed a 5' 4" rattler all with CCI/Speer 22 LR shotshells. I ate some of that last rattlesnake just last week. I have also killed a few squirrels, that I shot out of trees with the little 22LR.
In Texas I carry it with 2 shotshells up first followed by 4 bulleted rounds.
I have also used it to put in the coup de gras on 3 pigs and a bobcat, that I shot with a rifle. It penetrated the skull to the brain every time.
I chose the revolver because of its much higher reliability rate, and the fact it is very easy to cock the gun 3 times to by pass the 2 shotshells to get to regular bulleted ammo.
I carry it in an inside the pocket holster in my left front pocket.
I have found it to be most useful.
That being said, I bought a 2" Mod 34 several years ago to be a second gun to carry when in the woods. I do a lot of hunting many times in remote areas alone, and I belived with the 22LR I could carry a lot more ammo, on my person 100% of the time. I always have a 44 Mag or a 45 ACP along as well.
So I practiced a LOT with the 2" S&W until I could hit the plates on the plate rack on my range from 25 yards. The plates are about 8" in diameter.
I can hit them fairly quickly even DA.
Also where I hunt in Texas there are a lot of snakes. Just last deer season I killed 4 rattlers, and one copperhead, and this turkey season I killed a 5' 4" rattler all with CCI/Speer 22 LR shotshells. I ate some of that last rattlesnake just last week. I have also killed a few squirrels, that I shot out of trees with the little 22LR.
In Texas I carry it with 2 shotshells up first followed by 4 bulleted rounds.
I have also used it to put in the coup de gras on 3 pigs and a bobcat, that I shot with a rifle. It penetrated the skull to the brain every time.
I chose the revolver because of its much higher reliability rate, and the fact it is very easy to cock the gun 3 times to by pass the 2 shotshells to get to regular bulleted ammo.
I carry it in an inside the pocket holster in my left front pocket.
I have found it to be most useful.
Clovishound
Member
As was stated before, a .22lr is better than not carrying, but you may have a difficult time stopping a determined attacker using it with the amount of ammo you have in the gun.
I only owned .22s when I took my CC class. I planned on, and eventually purchased a compact 9mm prior to my permit arriving. I used to have more confidence in .22 for home defense when that was all I had on hand. Now that I have other options, I would not consider grabbing one for defense, unless there was no other option at the time.
I only owned .22s when I took my CC class. I planned on, and eventually purchased a compact 9mm prior to my permit arriving. I used to have more confidence in .22 for home defense when that was all I had on hand. Now that I have other options, I would not consider grabbing one for defense, unless there was no other option at the time.
Hi:
I think (?) that a rimfire is not as dependable as a centerfire. However as already stated a .22rf is better than a rock/stick. I know ladies who CCW Ruger LCR .22 magnums. I would think that a .22rf as a "BUG" is ok but a centerfire for a main battery is better. I would feel well armed with a .22 auto loaded with hispeed HP if that was all I had.
I think (?) that a rimfire is not as dependable as a centerfire. However as already stated a .22rf is better than a rock/stick. I know ladies who CCW Ruger LCR .22 magnums. I would think that a .22rf as a "BUG" is ok but a centerfire for a main battery is better. I would feel well armed with a .22 auto loaded with hispeed HP if that was all I had.
I understand big bullets and big guns but not everyone has that option. Walking into 8 or 10 .22LRs would be like walking into a hornets nest and there are not many people that tough. Larry
MrJT
US Veteran
Better than nothing? I guess....
My brother, Charlie, will disagree. A few years back he was walking through the woods on a family members land. It was autumn and he had on a mid weight jacket.
He was walking along the stone wall when all of a sudden he gets a "zap zap" and hears gun fire.
He dropped and started yelling like there was no tomorrow. The gunfire stopped and he was still hollering. He then heard someone swearing up a storm coming toward him from the other side of the stone wall.
A man and his son were out shooting a ruger 10/22 and DID NOT KNOW WHAT WAS BEHIND THEIR TARGET. Which were just tin cans.
My brother was tagged by a .22 lr out of a rifle at 50 ft.
He was twice in the right pectoral area. When he went to the emergency room to get the two bullets removed, but he had a surprise when they took an X-ray.
He had three in him! He didn't even know he was hit three times. The third shot was more under his arm and he didn't feel it getting hit or see it when he checked himself out.
Oh, he's actually friends with the man who shot him. He knew him before the incident and he's a good man. Just very, VERY uneducated with firearms. I don't know the full story of the outcome of the shooting accident, but I know my brother didn't press any charges or anything.
So, I'd be cautious about carrying a .22, especially out of handgun. The only reason my brother hit the deck was to avoid being hit. The shots in no way incapacitated him. Now if he was an unsavory individual trying to do someone harm, i doubt those shots would have stopped him.
My brother, Charlie, will disagree. A few years back he was walking through the woods on a family members land. It was autumn and he had on a mid weight jacket.
He was walking along the stone wall when all of a sudden he gets a "zap zap" and hears gun fire.
He dropped and started yelling like there was no tomorrow. The gunfire stopped and he was still hollering. He then heard someone swearing up a storm coming toward him from the other side of the stone wall.
A man and his son were out shooting a ruger 10/22 and DID NOT KNOW WHAT WAS BEHIND THEIR TARGET. Which were just tin cans.
My brother was tagged by a .22 lr out of a rifle at 50 ft.
He was twice in the right pectoral area. When he went to the emergency room to get the two bullets removed, but he had a surprise when they took an X-ray.
He had three in him! He didn't even know he was hit three times. The third shot was more under his arm and he didn't feel it getting hit or see it when he checked himself out.
Oh, he's actually friends with the man who shot him. He knew him before the incident and he's a good man. Just very, VERY uneducated with firearms. I don't know the full story of the outcome of the shooting accident, but I know my brother didn't press any charges or anything.
So, I'd be cautious about carrying a .22, especially out of handgun. The only reason my brother hit the deck was to avoid being hit. The shots in no way incapacitated him. Now if he was an unsavory individual trying to do someone harm, i doubt those shots would have stopped him.
Larry from Bend
Member
I've carried a .22 Derringer a few times when it was all I thought I could conceal. It made me feel better than not carrying at all; but not much.
A bigger caliber is more likely to stop someone who is trying to hurt you.
I DO know that when you are faced with people who you feel are about to try to hurt you, a .38 feels puny. I can't imagine what a .22 feels like.
A bigger caliber is more likely to stop someone who is trying to hurt you.
I DO know that when you are faced with people who you feel are about to try to hurt you, a .38 feels puny. I can't imagine what a .22 feels like.
Arik
Member
Yes assuming its just a stationary target and not one who is moving, shooting back or close enough that you two are already at arms length. Bad guys dont announce their intentions from 50 ft away. Usually its close and fast. What was the avg gunfight? Something like 2 or 3 shots and in under 10 seconds.
For me nothing under a snub nose 38spl and only when it must be deep concealed. Otherwise i cary a full or mid size 9mm with at least 15 rounds.
If its not comfortable to you, you have other issues. Guns arnt ment to be comfortable (you are not wearing 2 pounds of metal, polymer and powder for better footing on a windy day). Its ment to be comforting. This means you carry the right tool for the job and do so with the right gear. Dont just go out and buy any holster just cause its cheap. Same with a belt. A proper holster and gun belt take up a lot of the weight. A holster with 2 clips spread out will spread the weight better and make it even more comfortable. A real gun belt will not bend, buckle, or stretch and will hold your pants up with the extra weight of the gun. If you carry iwb then you'll need jeans that are about a inch or two wider to accommodate the thickness of the gun. If you choose owb you need a good leather belt that will hold the gun as close as possible to your body. Expect to pay good money for both, its part of responsible gun carry. At first you will be a little uncomfortable because its different. but you'll get used to the feeling. If those guns are still "too bulky and uncomfortable" try a thinner single stack 9mm. They weigh less and are thinner. Shield, Kahr, Walther PPS are all good and reliable light weight 9s.
Just remember not all bullets, mags, guns are created equal. Just because its cheap and accommodating doesnt mean it worth it. Buy once cry once.
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Carry what you can shoot well with.
If you don't have a .45 you can't carry it now can you?
If your .40 prints in your special outfit you can't carry it.
So carry what you can, and learn to shoot it well. I think most of the time it's the noise and sting that stops the attack anyway. Most people who get shot do not die.
I can carry a .45 if I want, but right now, today, I prefer a 9mm with a couple extra rounds. Some days though it's a .45 with an extra mag. It's nice to have choices.
Which begs this question: How many folks who espouse all this expert knowledge have more than one gun anyway?
The guy who only owns a .380 tells you the .380 is a GREAT self defense round. The guy who only has a 9mm trumpets how superior it is.
I have everything from a .17 to a .45, and I haven't found any magic bullets that guarantee they will work in any caliber.
But I'll tell you what... I'd rather have 20 rounds of .22 than 2 rounds of .45.
If you don't have a .45 you can't carry it now can you?
If your .40 prints in your special outfit you can't carry it.
So carry what you can, and learn to shoot it well. I think most of the time it's the noise and sting that stops the attack anyway. Most people who get shot do not die.
I can carry a .45 if I want, but right now, today, I prefer a 9mm with a couple extra rounds. Some days though it's a .45 with an extra mag. It's nice to have choices.
Which begs this question: How many folks who espouse all this expert knowledge have more than one gun anyway?
The guy who only owns a .380 tells you the .380 is a GREAT self defense round. The guy who only has a 9mm trumpets how superior it is.
I have everything from a .17 to a .45, and I haven't found any magic bullets that guarantee they will work in any caliber.
But I'll tell you what... I'd rather have 20 rounds of .22 than 2 rounds of .45.
LoboGunLeather
US Veteran
Shot placement is very important with any caliber, but more so with the .22LR. The bullet that stops the gunfight is the bullet that makes it impossible for your opponent to continue fighting. Not having the abilities of larger calibers for greater tissue damage, the .22 bullet will have to penetrate certain exact locations that will interrupt nerve functioning (brain stem,etc) or cause serious blood loss resulting in unconsciousness (major arteries, etc).
I would not feel unarmed with a good .22 handgun, but I would want to be very accurate with my shots.
I would not feel unarmed with a good .22 handgun, but I would want to be very accurate with my shots.
You are correct--lots of damage, possibly fatal, but the damage and later fatality will not necessarily stop the actions of your opponent. Stopping your opponent should be the objective in shooting him/her, not hurting, wounding, but STOPPING
In order to stop someone using a .22 rimfire cartridge, a high quality brain shot is needed ie thru that small magic rectangle. And remember the head can be a moving target.
Yes, better than a rock or stick, but I want and carry something larger and more powerful.
Linejudgemick
Member
I'm just curious and must be missing something:
M&P22:
Capacity, 12+1 of 22 l.r.
Barrel Length, 4.1 inches
Overall Length, 7.6 inches
Weight, 24 oz.
Width, 1.2 inches
SD9VE:
Capacity, 16+1 of 9mm
Barrel Length, 4.0 inches
Overall Length, 7.2 inches
Weight, 22.7 oz.
Width, 1.29 inches
I guess I don't see any appreciable size difference between them and the SD9VE certainly has more fire-power in both capacity and caliber? I'd personally choose the SD9VE out of these two options; unless I just couldn't shoot it well.
I am gravely concerned that this conversation is even taking place. My concerns are:
Anything smaller than a .38 Spec. can stop a human. However, it is highly unlikely that this will happen in a timely manner. A .22 can, and does kill, but rarely quickly.
Shot placement is everything. However, when playing catch-up-football and the pucker factor sets in, shot placement becomes extremely difficult. A .45 hit anyplace beats a .22 hit in the same location.
I carried a .38 Spec for 18 years and a 9mm for ten and felt under-gunned with both.
Placing any weight on the opinion of strangers without some knowledge of the validity of that opinion causes me pause. I urge you to question opinions, including my own. There are a myriad of books based on proven facts that are usually more reliable. Please, educate yourself with solid facts, not from the opinions of strangers.
Anything smaller than a .38 Spec. can stop a human. However, it is highly unlikely that this will happen in a timely manner. A .22 can, and does kill, but rarely quickly.
Shot placement is everything. However, when playing catch-up-football and the pucker factor sets in, shot placement becomes extremely difficult. A .45 hit anyplace beats a .22 hit in the same location.
I carried a .38 Spec for 18 years and a 9mm for ten and felt under-gunned with both.
Placing any weight on the opinion of strangers without some knowledge of the validity of that opinion causes me pause. I urge you to question opinions, including my own. There are a myriad of books based on proven facts that are usually more reliable. Please, educate yourself with solid facts, not from the opinions of strangers.
Lots of great input and information here. I greatly appreciate everyones info, concerns and comments. I have been reading everything and taking it all in. I agree and always have known that the 22 is not going to totally stop an attacker. I also agree that the shots would have to be precise to have a chance at it stopping someone in their tracks. I do have the SD9VE as well and have decided that for now, even though it is bigger than I prefer, it will be what I carry. My next weapon of choice for CCW is either going to be the .38 or the compact M&P 9 or 40. I as well as everyone else do hope to never be put in a situation to need it, but if I ever do, I want to make sure I have the equipment needed to do the job correctly and effectively. I have always thought the more fire power the better and your thoughts have confirmed that thought for me.
What are your thoughts on going with a compact instead of the fullsize? Obviously less ammo with the compact.
What are your thoughts on going with a compact instead of the fullsize? Obviously less ammo with the compact.
Arik
Member
Compacts are fine less ammo but not buy much and you can always use the mags from the full size if you want
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If you can place your shots where you want them to go under stress, I wouldn't call your choice unwise. You've already conceded that a .22 LR isn't the most optimal choice on the ballistic totem pole, so I won't play "caliber police." 
Now... If you're only choosing the M&P 22 based on size and concealability but would feel more comfortable with something in a larger caliber, you might want to give a Walther PPS or a S&W J-frame an honest look. The latter has a steeper learning curve to master, but few things can beat a J-frame in terms of being the "overall package." (Incidentally, before I settled on my Chief's Special, I was seriously considering buying a Walther PPS in 9mm.) These are just two noteworthy examples; I'm sure there are many more that deserve equal consideration.
Edited to Add: I've carried both compact and full sized autoloading pistols, and learned that I prefer the size and handling of compacts. Blocky as it was, I found that a Glock 19 was easier to tote than a BHP or a 1911.
Now... If you're only choosing the M&P 22 based on size and concealability but would feel more comfortable with something in a larger caliber, you might want to give a Walther PPS or a S&W J-frame an honest look. The latter has a steeper learning curve to master, but few things can beat a J-frame in terms of being the "overall package." (Incidentally, before I settled on my Chief's Special, I was seriously considering buying a Walther PPS in 9mm.) These are just two noteworthy examples; I'm sure there are many more that deserve equal consideration.
Edited to Add: I've carried both compact and full sized autoloading pistols, and learned that I prefer the size and handling of compacts. Blocky as it was, I found that a Glock 19 was easier to tote than a BHP or a 1911.
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I would hate to find out the hard way it wasn't enough gun but as someone previously stated, it sure beats throwing a rock.
All the people who carry the smaller calibers must be very confident in their abilities to put shots exactly where they aim on a moving target no less, and under terrifying conditions.
I for one am in no way confident that I could pull off a head/throat/heart shot under those conditions... and that's why I carry a .45acp
Just because its fun and accurate to shoot down the range does NOT make it a perfect carry gun.
IB
All the people who carry the smaller calibers must be very confident in their abilities to put shots exactly where they aim on a moving target no less, and under terrifying conditions.
I for one am in no way confident that I could pull off a head/throat/heart shot under those conditions... and that's why I carry a .45acp
Just because its fun and accurate to shoot down the range does NOT make it a perfect carry gun.
IB
Dikinalaska
Member
These are the debates I went over in my head before deciding on my first pistol which ended up being a 9 to compromise both ways. 16 rds and with the right ammo can get around the ballistics of a 40. Settled in on a.40 now, but you gotta start somewhere.
To the OP, I would agree on carrying whatever you're most comfortable with. Firepower doesn't do any good in the wrong direction.
Friend of mine's a big guy, has a concealed carry permit and has a Springfield XD.45 Tactical. It has the tactical holster and the tactical double mag holder. When we're at the range he tells me how his gun has a bigger bullet than my .38 special snubby and how he can load the mag with 12 rounds of .45acp and carry 2 extra loaded mags. Only problem is he never carries it, my snubby with two loaded quickstrips is with me always.
Now he wants to get a tactical light for it and a tactical holster to carry it in. I offered to make a custom leather holster for it and dye it black so it'd look tactical but he wants a tactical kydex holster for it instead, I guess so it'll look all cool and tactical sittin' in his gun safe. My Cherokee friend with the Ruger SR22, always carries her little pistol in one my custom made holsters.
I guess the point I'm trying to make is a carry gun's only good if you carry it. No a .22's not an ideal self defense caliber but it's a lot better than a .45 with all the cool tactical stuff sitting at home in the gunsafe.
KKECK5
Member
I've been retired for sometime, but many of the bodies i ran across shot by a .22 were just as dead. Most were one shot to the head or heart. It's all about placement. BUT, you better know what your doing under stress, there's little room for error.
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glad to hear you have reconsidered caliber...if you use the search function on this forum,you will find a lot of discussion on the .22 as a self defense carry gun..it's been brought up a LOT!
it's a very poor choice for self defense...lots of fun and cheap (sort of) to practice with but...POOR for self defense
it's a very poor choice for self defense...lots of fun and cheap (sort of) to practice with but...POOR for self defense
Sure executions with a .22 makes good business sense. You don't need to sell much crack to buy a box of .22LR!
I started out with a .380 for a carry gun. I upsized because I realized carrying a bigger caliber for protection made sense.
In a life or death situation where you only have a split second and are able to only get a single shot off would you want to be firing a .22 or a .357 magnum?
If you make the conscious decision to use a firearm for self defense, then you stack the cards as much in your favour as possible.
If your intention is to start off small and work your way up, I certainly understand that and kudos to you for deciding not to be a victim. If you have been carrying a .380 or a .22 for 20 years then your simply giving the BG chances that he ought not to have.
It's just common sense.
IB
IB
Back when I lived in the Washington DC area and worked selling car parts, a lot of the people I associated with weren't always on the right side of the law. I've been told stories of people trippin' on crack, getting shot by a .22 and not even noticing until later when they'd start feelin' poorly and notice that they're bleeding. I personally want to carry a caliber that'll be noticed immediately. A .38 special hollowpoint isn't the most powerful round but it'll get a persons attention.
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