Just bought a new 617-6, last week ($900). The chain sporting goods store wouldn't let me function the action-- the gunlock remained threaded through the frame until after purchase. When I got home I discovered the cylinder stop would not index-- it simply dropped into the frame and stayed there allowing the cylinder to spin freely with the hammer down, etc.. S&W has provided a prepaid label since the store will not accept returns. It's gone back to the factory. Within the past year my newly-purchased M-66 was returned (barrel replaced) and a new Bodyguard 2.0 suffered magazine follower problems. Three S&W headaches in a year? It's a sad commentary on a once fine gunmaker.
Three Strikes...Out?
- Thread starter Sammy75
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Sorry to hear of your difficulties. It really stinks to purchase an expensive gun and have it not function.
I am 71 and got to experience some of the S&W, Ruger and Colt products from the 70s and 80s. You know, back when craftsmanship was still a thing. I had a .22 kitgun, a Model 27, a Super BlackHawk and a Combat Commander all from that era and that were all basically ****. The Model 27 sort of got fixed. Same with the Combat Commander. The .22 kitgun and Super Blackhawk were not worth the trouble and got sold off.
I bought a new 686+ about two years ago and it's the best timed S&W I have ever owned. Go figure.
My advice is be patient and be selective. If you wind up with a good shooting gun, never ever sell it. That's even if you are not using it. Your firearms interest may change over time and that fine gun that you got rid of 10 years ago might have been just the ticket.
Just some ramblings from an old man.
I am 71 and got to experience some of the S&W, Ruger and Colt products from the 70s and 80s. You know, back when craftsmanship was still a thing. I had a .22 kitgun, a Model 27, a Super BlackHawk and a Combat Commander all from that era and that were all basically ****. The Model 27 sort of got fixed. Same with the Combat Commander. The .22 kitgun and Super Blackhawk were not worth the trouble and got sold off.
I bought a new 686+ about two years ago and it's the best timed S&W I have ever owned. Go figure.
My advice is be patient and be selective. If you wind up with a good shooting gun, never ever sell it. That's even if you are not using it. Your firearms interest may change over time and that fine gun that you got rid of 10 years ago might have been just the ticket.
Just some ramblings from an old man.
Your problems are not a matter of craftsmanship, but of philosophy-----the problems simply symptoms of the REAL problem!
Once upon a time, the first hundred years, S&W's philosophy very clearly was, We will be successful if we build the best possible product for the price.
Along about the middle of the 20th century, a new philosophy took root---goes like this: We will be successful if we build our product and conduct our operations at the lowest possible cost.
The first toe in the water was harmless enough, even made some sense, and nobody but perhaps a few with the training to recognize it for what it was paid much attention to it. I for damn sure didn't have the training then, but after I done got edumacated, I woke up one night and let loose with a whole stream of bad words---any one of which will get me a good smack upside the head from the Big Gorilla & Company!
The shoddy workmanship, poor quality control, lousy service, interminable delays and any and all other things we read about here are the end result. They will continue for so long as there is an emerging customer base that doesn't know any better---or new ownership that does know better.
Sad but true!!
Ralph Tremaine
Once upon a time, the first hundred years, S&W's philosophy very clearly was, We will be successful if we build the best possible product for the price.
Along about the middle of the 20th century, a new philosophy took root---goes like this: We will be successful if we build our product and conduct our operations at the lowest possible cost.
The first toe in the water was harmless enough, even made some sense, and nobody but perhaps a few with the training to recognize it for what it was paid much attention to it. I for damn sure didn't have the training then, but after I done got edumacated, I woke up one night and let loose with a whole stream of bad words---any one of which will get me a good smack upside the head from the Big Gorilla & Company!
The shoddy workmanship, poor quality control, lousy service, interminable delays and any and all other things we read about here are the end result. They will continue for so long as there is an emerging customer base that doesn't know any better---or new ownership that does know better.
Sad but true!!
Ralph Tremaine
None of mine were made post 1981.
Get old classics.
A couple have end shake within spec.
One was worse and was an easy shim fix.
The old stuff!!
Get old classics.
A couple have end shake within spec.
One was worse and was an easy shim fix.
The old stuff!!
I have handed back many guns to the salesman when he wouldn't remove the trigger lock so I could test it. He always shrugged & put it back, knowing there would be a goober to come along to buy it sooner or later.
I bet this is a liability issue. There's been more than couple of times a customer has slipped in a live round & shot himself with the store's gun.
I bet this is a liability issue. There's been more than couple of times a customer has slipped in a live round & shot himself with the store's gun.
SVT-THUNDER
Member
I’ve never purchased a gun of any kind from somewhere that won’t let Handle the firearm without a lock. Semi auto, revolver, rifle, carbine or shotgun.
That said, I just recently bought my first modern era S&W revolver. Everything is tight, crisp trigger and action. But that’s as far as I can speak since I’m still delayed.
That said, I just recently bought my first modern era S&W revolver. Everything is tight, crisp trigger and action. But that’s as far as I can speak since I’m still delayed.
I've owned S&W revolvers for 50 years. My first was a Model 18, followed by a 28, 27 and 29. These were purchases made in the '70s. All were flawless. Frankly, I've lost confidence in the brand. Although it was annoying, I respect that the store that sold me the 617 does not allow shoppers to cycle their new guns in the case, scoring cylinder lines and conceivably damaging rimfires with dry firing. Unfortunately, I can no longer trust the new generation of S&Ws to perform out of the box.
Most, but certainly not all of my S&W's were purchased used. Never have had a problem with any of them. The few which I did buy new work like you'd want the one you gave to your wife to work. If it didn't, I fixed it. There was only one in that category, a 5" Model-10 I got at an auction for $90.00, and it needed new grips. I sold it to a friend and have been looking for a replacement ever since. IMM* the 5" K-frame doesn't look right unless it's fitted with a set of Pach's.
Llance
*(In My Mind)
Llance
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I am thinking that the Cylinder Stop was fit too tightly (or not at all) or is hanging up on a burr. There could also be a broken or bad spring but more likely that the part itself just needs a bit of minor fitting.
While you absolutely did the right thing by sending it back, I would have just fit it or replaced it myself. Having to do that on a brand new gun is pathetic - but it is what it is! It would have not taken very long and I have way more confidence in my own GS skills than the Factory GS's now days. I have commented about the state of affairs with the Company so I won't rehash it here - and I feel sorry that you need to send a brand new revolver back. That is just so wrong and could have easily been avoided if they knew how to do a final QC check before boxing and shipping.
I am a huge S&W fan - but the caveat is nothing they made after the early to mid 1990's. When buying a vintage gun I check it out thoroughly before hand. I have not yet encountered a LGS that won't let you cycle a used revolver or pistol however if I ever do I will explain to them if they won't let me do so, it is a deal breaker. I guess LGS do not like to deepen the cylinder turn line or take a chance of a customer dinging up a new gun. That said, for me, no check out - no buy, even though I know their reasoning for not letting me check it.
There have been a couple of vintage revolvers I did buy that I knew had an issue, but I knew right at that moment what the issue was, had the parts and knowledge to fix it in just a few minutes. Because of those issues I got a fantastically low price as the LGS knew and understood about the issue after I explained it to them. If I did not know exactly what was wrong, or if I did not have a replacement part or skills to repair it, I would have passed. Of course the agreed price must be in line with the revolver as well.
I guess we all now know just what a great reputation S&W has had for so many years - as they have been solely riding on their past reputation for a few decades now. They have successfully hoodwinked so many new buyers over the last 20 years but I truly believe their "new" reputation is starting to catch up with them now - big time! While this is so sad to live through, it keeps raising the selling prices of high quality vintage guns.
Hopefully they will fix your problem fast, correctly and return the gun to you quickly. Keep us posted and good luck.
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chief38: I wish I had your gunsmithing skills. This latest revolver has really soured me on S&W. Buying new guns is risky, particularly when ordering online. Although I've saved big money, the only inspection of an online-purchase occurs when filling out the transfer papers with an FFL. Shopping with a local dealer is almost always more expensive, however. Realistically, the thorough evaluation of a firearm involves firing a few hundred rounds. When a manufacturer takes quality control shortcuts, its reputation and buyer confidence suffers.
Some store policies are not customer friendly lately.
I took a chance on a S&W M69 a few years ago.
I got lucky with this one ,very accurate and 100% reliable.
First store I found one got the same story,trigger locks were not allowed to be removed.
About a month later store across town got one in and I was allowed to test the trigger.
And it was almost 100$ cheaper.
Had a Mountain gun when they first came out and it was a piece of junk.
Went back to the factory 3 times.
Seems a lot of firearm purchases are kinda hit and miss lately.
I took a chance on a S&W M69 a few years ago.
I got lucky with this one ,very accurate and 100% reliable.
First store I found one got the same story,trigger locks were not allowed to be removed.
About a month later store across town got one in and I was allowed to test the trigger.
And it was almost 100$ cheaper.
Had a Mountain gun when they first came out and it was a piece of junk.
Went back to the factory 3 times.
Seems a lot of firearm purchases are kinda hit and miss lately.
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twodog max
Member
I have had problems with new S&W firearms and with revolvers from the so called golden age as well. I have also sent firearms from other manufacturers back as well. The entire industry is building to hit a price point IMO for the common buyer. If you buy high end guns problems are usually but not always avoided. It is sad that it has come to this but I do not see an end. And it is just not the firearms industry that is having these problems.
The days of hand fitted craftmanship are gone. I certainly won't live to see the return.
I would have walked away from there if they would not remove a lock.
The days of hand fitted craftmanship are gone. I certainly won't live to see the return.
I would have walked away from there if they would not remove a lock.
On two occasions, Bass Pro and Cabelas have allowed me to return guns when defects were found after the trigger lock was removed at home. Doesn’t hurt to call.
This latest came from Dunham's Sporting Goods, a chain retailer in Michigan. It's their policy to keep the actions locked up. I didn't expect an exception. Quite honestly, I've had new handguns go back to Heritage and Walther (twice) in recent years. S&W has plenty of company in this respect.
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It is crazy to not allow a purchaser to check the action for proper function, carry-up, lock-up, etc. It would be like going to a car dealer and being refused a test-drive. I know folks will complain about the "turn-line," however I make two points: (1) there is nothing collectible about a new revolver, while there could be plenty wrong; and, (2) a "turn-line" is evidence of a properly functioning revolver. I never get too excited about turn-lines. Registered Magnums have the grandest turn lines of all! I would never have bought from that store with those kind of conditions on a potential sale.
SVT-THUNDER
Member
We have a Dunhams store that opened up in my small town a few years ago. Parking lot looks like the place is out of business every single day. They require anyone looking at a gun to hand them their drivers license first, remove the gun, place ID in gun display and lock it and then proceed to hand a weapon with a trigger lock to the customer. It’s a joke.
They’re literally the highest priced store anywhere around here. I honestly don’t know how they’re still in business here. Nobody shops there. Terrible chain.
Take it back to where you bought it and get a REFUND!!!!!!!!!!
SWFan27
Member
I bought a new 617-6 in June and had to send it back for warranty work. The cylinder was not locking into place with the hammer cocked back on two charging holes. And it was shaving lead at the forcing cone.
Smith and Wesson cut the forcing cone and replaced the extractor because two of the ratchets were causing carry up issues. They also refinished the revolver most likely due to a tooling mark on the barrel that did not mention to them. Everything is all good now.
Smith and Wesson cut the forcing cone and replaced the extractor because two of the ratchets were causing carry up issues. They also refinished the revolver most likely due to a tooling mark on the barrel that did not mention to them. Everything is all good now.
