Three Strikes...Out?

[SWFan27]

My 617-6 went back to S&W in June because two of the ten charging holes were out of time. The cylinder needed to be physically turned to lock into place when the hammer was locked all the way back. S&W replaced the extractor because two of the ratchets were causing carry up issues. S&W also cut the forcing cone.

It is one of my favorite and best shooters now. I own four modern Smith & Wesson revolvers including a M66-8, and this was the first problem I have ever had with one. All better now.

 

[bobsguns]

He claims his S&W rep told him that second-rate handguns are usually distributed to the chain dealers-- the top quality arms go to dedicated gun shops. Sounds like BS, to me. Anyone heard this yarn, or can substantiate it?

One of them is lying. Take your pick on which one.

That was the same BS rumor back in the 90s about Remington. It wasn't true then, it's still not true now.

Were I to hear anyone saying this BS, I'd like to ask them how does a mfgr decide which ones are "top quality" & which ones aren't? They don't shoot them for accuracy, so that's out. So, how is it determined? Magic?

Anyone who has ever worked a factory knows product is usually just piled up on a pallet & then hauled off to shipping. (Obviously guns are slightly different because of serial numbers.) There is no way in the world to tell them apart at that point, besides product codes. There's no secret markings or words on Smith boxes. People that repeat this nonsense should be Govt PR people, IMO. IOW, nothing but lies.

Based on the ones I've personally met, the Smith reps are a shadow of what they used to be. Of course, we can say this about a lot of things these days, sadly.

My .o2

 

[JumboJVT]

I'd have no issue with a retailer refusing to remove the lock IF they had competent staff function/quality checking they guns BEFORE placing them for sale. Of course that would mean !) Employing competent staff, 2) dealing with returns to the mothership 3) increased retail prices to accomodate 1 & 2, and 4) reduced sales because they'd no longer offer the lowest price...the #1 priority for most buyers.

We, the consumer, have created this mess. I for one am willing to pay more for a product from a retailer I feel is more worthy of my patronage than another (if this sounds imperialistic, well...I'm the one with the money). But I don't have the drive to consume that some seem to. If everyone shops at Walmart, Walmart will be the only place anyone can shop...and have no choice but to take what they offer.

 

[357 shooter]

S&W has provided a prepaid label since the store will not accept returns. It's gone back to the factory. Within the past year my newly-purchased M-66 was returned (barrel replaced) and a new Bodyguard 2.0 suffered magazine follower problems. Three S&W headaches in a year? It's a sad commentary on a once fine gunmaker.

At least Smith is going to try to fix it , with my Shield Plus (I know, not a revolver) that would not zero with 2 different optics they were not even willing to look at it .

At least in 38 years of shooting Smith revolvers I only had to send one back , a 617 in the late 1990s. Cylinder gap was not even all the way around and and I thought that was the reason for the marginal accuracy as well. Got it back and the gap was fine but gun still shot sub par , traded it.

There were some Smiths that I would have bought in the past few years if not for the piss poor customer service on the Shield.

 

[Piwo]

To the extent the quality control (or lack of) at Smith and Wesson is pervasive, I cannot say. I do know that it is not new, such as it is. A friend bought a brand new model 67 in the early 70s right after they came out. The cylinder stop was broken. My 1979 model 29 had lousy timing from the start...The hand broke with less than 500 rounds. I had the gun retimed 4 times by local armorers over the years. Except for the last time, they just seemed to never be able to get it right. I remember articles in the Gun digest and American Rifleman describing the quality control issues at Smith and Wesson during the late 60s and 1970s. The articles described factory tours by management to address the issue. Back then, it was blamed on a new influx of labor and demands of Viet Nam war. I remember an old article by Massad Ayoob describing this problem in the 1980s. He had inspected a shipment of duty 44 magnums that had 41 mag barrels!

I think back in the day the average joe didn't buy as many guns as we do today. My friend who bought the model 67 only owned a few handguns and the model 67 was going to be his one and only ultimate target/plinking/self defense/trail gun. He saved for over a year money from side jobs to pay for it. With fewer new examples out there at the time, we didn't see as many new guns, good or bad. It seemed to me that the few guns people had were handed down.
I haven't bought a new Smith and Wesson in years. Only because I don't really need one. Like many of the posters here, If I got a defective gun from the factory, I would not be happy and I would be letting people know that. But I must say that I bought a model 21-4 Thunder Ranch when they came out and it is fine in every way. My brother bought a new model 66, my friend and brother bought j frames and all were perfectly timed, tight b/c gaps, accurate and as good of an example of Smith & Wesson revolvers as I have ever seen. So, it is possible that there at least a few people at the factory that know what they're doing.
I have always bought guns from places that allowed me to handle and inspect them before purchasing. If I can't, I let them know they lost a sale and I go elsewhere. I know that is not always possible for everyone. Also, I have had nothing but superior service when I have sent guns back to the mothership. The same with Ruger. So it pains me to hear of the negative experiences that some post here.

Mark me down as one of the guys who really has no complaints about Smith and Wesson products...yet, anyway. I guess I'm lucky.

 

[ameridaddy]

....
We will be successful if we build the best possible product for the price.
....
Along about the middle of the 20th century, a new philosophy took root---goes like this: We will be successful if we build our product and conduct our operations at the lowest possible cost.
....
Sad but true!!

Ralph Tremaine

Mid 20th century is about when MBA's became the thing to have in business, and their mantra was next quarter must be better than this quarter. (Wonderboy's sub thought - Forget long term, I'll look good for four years and get a better offer at another company when I show my results here)
IMHO, too often, that came by cutting costs anywhere possible, to the neglect of looking ahead, and a year after Wonderboy is gone, the bottom falls out because his now former company is losing market share to better quality or more innovative products.
A reputation, once lost, is very, very difficult to get back.

 

[Sammy75]

I started this thread after purchasing my third, NIB S&W handgun in just over a year. All required immediate factory attention. I don't believe local gun shops receive preferred inventory, by the way. I'll just consider future purchases as I would a used car. With Smith & Wesson products, a thorough inspection must be conducted before the sale.

 

[stansdds]

Mid 20th century is about when MBA's became the thing to have in business, and their mantra was next quarter must be better than this quarter. (Wonderboy's sub thought - Forget long term, I'll look good for four years and get a better offer at another company when I show my results here)
IMHO, too often, that came by cutting costs anywhere possible, to the neglect of looking ahead, and a year after Wonderboy is gone, the bottom falls out because his now former company is losing market share to better quality or more innovative products.
A reputation, once lost, is very, very difficult to get back.

I think the control by accountants stems from companies like S&W going from family owned businesses to ones that are capital investment vehicles with share holders to satisfy.