Thumb safety or NO thumb safety ??

[Mark IV]

I guess you've never tried a Glock with an NY+ trigger.....

Dredging up an exception does not disprove the rule, and as a rule, striker fired semi autos simply ARE more prone to a AD than a revolver. (what's next, you gonna tell me about your brother-in-law's over-tuned .357 that has a 1.5# trigger ?)

...And not all striker-fired pistols are the same.

Again, no ****,Sherlock. Obviously, I (as nearly everyone on the planet routinely does) was speaking in relative,general terms, exceptions notwithstanding.

I'm a little confused how a manual safety really benefits you since you carry it in the off position in a pocket holster.

Once the pistol is securely in my pocket, i will often (but not necessarilly) click off the safety, and at the point I reach in to remove the pistol, I'll click the safety back on. So, what all that means is that for the vast majority of it's existence,(and all the related transporting and handling) the pistol is in safe mode.
That's the benefit. Obviously,no one is going to have an AD while a pistol is securely in a pocket holser, in their pocket. It's during all the other handling that the risk exists.

...And you make the assertion that reactive close-quarter scenarios involving the need for armed response are rare. What stats or knowledge are you basing that on?

I don't need to cite statistics or studies,for what I've observed in media reports, over decades.
Why don't YOU go dig up some stats on how many uses of firearms in self-defense required a response so immediate that merely clicking off a safety was so much of a delay or hinderance, that the shooter was overcome and killed.
When compounded with the very low number of incidences requiring armed repsonse, I'm confident that any that required one that instantaneous are an even tinier fraction of SD events.

..... but should you need to fire your weapon, there is a very good chance that it will be quick and close.

Wwwhat ?? .....no sources or stats to cite??
Obviously, there is typically a degree of quickness and closeness (since that's exactly what pistols were designed for), but I was clearly talking about cases SO close, and SO fast, that the 1/4-second act of sweeping your thumb along the safety takes too much time and trouble, resulting in the victim's demise.
Sure, it's probably happened, but still, statistically non-existent, I'd wager .

 

[gc70]

I managed to survive a lot of years with no manual safety on my revolvers.
Why have one on a semi-auto?

Your semi-autos all have very long and very heavy trigger pulls like your revolvers ... right?

 

[Mister X]

As usual, civil discussion and debate is obviously too much to ask for.

 

[RedPointGS]

The handguns I carry, the BG 380 and soon the Shield both have ...

... pretty heavy triggers. Since the triggers are covered in my holster the chances of an AD are extremely slim or I wouldn't carry them in that manner.
As to civil discussions, I've rarely seen nastiness here, but then I've only been on this forum for a short time. Personally, I see no need to be less than cordial and that's how I live my life. It saves me from raising my blood pressure or that of others around me. In fact, I have been called the most polite person that people have ever known. I suppose that's a southern upbringing, though I am not saying that people raised elsewhere aren't polite either. I usually get treated as I treat others.
As I was taught, play nice kids, LOL.

Stay safe ya'll~

K

As usual, civil discussion and debate is obviously too much to ask for.

 

[ThrowinRocks]

What difference does it really make if you have a safety or no safety?
The safety debate to me is as senseless as all the, what gun oil should I use to which caliber is the best.

If you have to ask others which should you buy then maybe you shouldn't buy either.

 

[Smoke]

When purchasing a 9mm shield do you purchase thumb safety or NO thumb safety?? Any comments or suggestions please.

1 Comment: You just started a MAJOR pissing contest.

1 Suggestion: after you do your research and decide which is best for you get THAT ONE. If you decide you want one without a safety don't cave in and buy one with a safety because that's what's available right now. Vice versa if you decide on one with a safety

 

[Walkingwolf]

Most of my semi autos have safeties, why? They came with safeties, I prefer them, and I can. Why I don't care if guns do not come with safeties? It really is none of my business. I either buy a gun, use it, or I don't.

As long as what people do is safe, and legal I respect them to decide for themselves on most any subject.

 

[Nacho Man]

I prefer no thumb safety

 

[Smoke]

That is my point, 98% is still not the same as being cocked. That 2% may not sound like much, but the engineers knew what they were doing.

You're exactly right about reholstering, this is the easiest time to have an accident and so you do have to be careful. I would cut the drawstrings off any jacket you intend to use while carrying a pistol. Remember there is no reward for speed holstering. You might even find it easier to take the holster off, put the gun in, and then put the holster back on.

Get a good holster too. Don't get something like a Blackhawk Serpa, which requires your trigger finger to release the gun. Don't get a cheap nylon holster that could collapse in on itself when you're trying to reholster. Don't get a paddle holster (poor retention, poor concealment).

On a gun like the M&P I consider a manual safety to be a false sense of security. It's just a piece of metal that could break or accidentally get switched on or off. Practice safe gun handling every time and it's superfluous.

I'm the one who was getting educated in that thread. You should read it. According to both posters if the striker were to drop from 98% it would ignite the primer.

Here is a very good explaination of it:



maybe let me try to put it another way. once you rack the slide the striker is cocked to a point that if, all of the sudden in a millisecond, the striker block and the sear disappeared, the striker would spring forward and ignite the primer and fire the gun.Gun condition codes don't seem to apply the same to striker guns because all the codes are set up for DA\SA guns with a hammer, but you can kind of think of the M&P system like condition 1/2... mag loaded, round chambered, Striker(hammer) cocked, safety off. except that we now have striker block safeties and trigger shoe safeties which are automatic as you pull the trigger. Somewhere between condition zero and condition one.

that 2% of movement, like Ray noted is basically just there to add some friction to make the trigger "safer".

If you look at apex sears, they actually remove material from the little nub that engages the striker to lessen that friction Ray mentioned. it also serves to lighten the trigger pull and make it more crisp so it doesn't have that sort of slightly round feel the stock triggers have. that's why the sell the duty/carry kits with heavier than stock springs.

anyway, hopefully this all helps you understand the system a little better. I've harped on it enough so I'm gonna bow out of this conversation and get on road.

The thread is called The Safety Situation I highly suggest reading it

 

[gman51]

Personally I will go for the thumb safety. I don't consider that lever in the middle of the trigger much if any of a safety. If I don't train my mind using the thumb safety while practicing then I shouldn't have the gun. I would much better train using a thumb safety then expect that trigger lever to keep me from possibly shooting myself.
To each his/her own what they feel is safer for themselves. It's their leg not yours. Personally I carry a revolver because I feel it is the safest and most reliable gun.

An external thumb safety or any safety for that matter will not stop a HUA moment of action.

 

[MochaJoe]

When purchasing a 9mm shield do you purchase thumb safety or NO thumb safety?? Any comments or suggestions please.

No safety. Never a manual safety on any of my firearms.

 

[xdmshooter59]

Whether you choose to use the thumb safety or not unless your practicing your draw either from concealment or open carry to the point it becomes second nature it wont matter. Keeping the trigger finger out of the trigger guard until your acquiring your target is all the safety one should need. Deactivating a manual safety is just an extra step and if you haven't built in the muscle memory necessary from lots of practice you likely will fumble when sh$t hits the fan costing you precious time and possibly your life. Practice your draw keeping your trigger finger out of the trigger guard until the gun is coming to the target.

When the gun is holstered with a proper holster that covers the entire trigger guard, it CAN'T go off accidently.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

 

[Mark IV]

Personally I will go for the thumb safety. I don't consider that lever in the middle of the trigger much if any of a safety.

That's because it isn't a 'safety' in the sense you're thinking of it. It's a 'drop safety', not a normal,traditional trigger safety. I used to think it was useless and stupid myself until eventually finding out what I actually was.
As I understand this, the trigger and striker are inter-connected, so if either one moves, so does the other.
That goofy little lever just keeps the trigger from moving, if the pistol is dropped, inertia can't move the trigger or striker,resulting in an AD (again, that's my understanding of it).
And while I'm here, apologies to Mister X for the over-zealous reply, I get all wound up now and then .

 

[tbrock]

No thumb safeties for me.

 

[texagonian]

Extensive background with Glocks ...no safety is the way I went with my Shield which I bought after selling Glock 43.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[cmcinc]

No for me, it is my carry gun and I do not want to have to worry about flipping off when needed.
I prefer no thumb safety for any of my HD guns too.

 

[wrangler5]

None of my previous carry guns (Makarov, P380, Glock 26, various J & K frame revolvers) had a device which required moving with the thumb after drawing and before a shot could be fired. So it is not an action I have ever trained for over the dozen or so years I've been carrying daily.

I fell in love with the micro 9mm autos after trying several at a rental range, and decided to switch from my 38 revolvers. My favorite was the SIG 938, but that one HAS to be carried cocked and locked, which would be something completely new to my routine. It would have required a LOT of training to make swiping the safety off into an automatic action that became part of the draw stroke. But since I expected to still carry the revolvers on occasion, I did not want to introduce a different manual of arms if I could avoid it. This led to my choosing the Shield 9 WITHOUT a safety lever as my new carry piece. It's one less thing that could get in the way of making a first shot rapidly under pressure.

Now my M&P 22C is a different story. That one DOES have a safety lever (one on each side, actually) and I quite like the fact that they're there. This (probably) will be one of the guns that will be used to teach my grandchildren how to shoot, and I don't mind at all that it has a safety lever - or a magazine disconnect, for that matter (which is an absolute disqualifier on any gun that I have ever considered for daily carry.) The 22 will never be a concealed carry piece, so I don't care if it has features that make it harder to get off a first shot in a hurry.

Different application, different requirements, based on MY background, experience and circumstances. YMMV, of course.

 

[0849]

The only universal advice that holds for everyone is Train

1 Comment: You just started a MAJOR pissing contest.

1 Suggestion: after you do your research and decide which is best for you get THAT ONE. If you decide you want one without a safety don't cave in and buy one with a safety because that's what's available right now. Vice versa if you decide on one with a safety

Advice worth repeating -- "If you decide you want one without a safety don't cave in and buy one with a safety because that's what's available right now. Vice versa if you decide on one with a safety."

There is no expert opinion that should rule for everyone, as manual safety vs no manual safety, and magazine disconnect vs no disconnect, needs to be a personal decision, there are very good pros and cons to both sides, so best to research on your own, look at the different designs and configurations that are out there for safeties (eg-frame mounted vs slide mounted, high profile like 3rd gen S&W and Beretta 92s vs the lower profile you see on many newer semi-autos like the M&P line, etc), if possible do some practical exercises trying some out, and once you decide what is most appropriate for your particular use and preference the only universal advice that holds for everyone no matter which side you end up on is - train / practice with that specific firearm.

 

[jim46ok]

Why are we doing this AGAIN???

 

[Funflyer]

Normally I like to stay out of this kind of thread but here's a guy that should've been using a TS and might still be alive today if he had.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDSNwD7_BgA[/ame]

 

[xdmshooter59]

What a tragedy.

More than just the Thumb safety. How in the world does he leave the gun where his young toddler son can pick it up !!!

 

[silversnake]

Normally I like to stay out of this kind of thread but here's a guy that should've been using a TS and might still be alive today if he had.

That kid could have easily flicked the safety off, kids love to push and pull anything they can get their hands on. No safety can make up for that level of irresponsibility. If he survived I hope he was charged with negligence.

 

[Mister X]

Prevention of unintentional discharges due to potential mistakes in handling and reholstering are valid reasons for wanting a manual safety, but pointing to cases of gross negligence such as the above video is not IMO.

Along a somewhat similar line of thinking is wanting a manual safety in case you are disarmed and hoping the bad guy won't know how to operate the gun. For cops, there may be a degree of validity to the idea(although nearly all departments have now gone sans manual safeties after weighing the pros vs cons), but for civilians carrying concealed, it just isn't valid. If there is justification in drawing your weapon from concealment as in an assailant that you believe intends to do you harm is close enough to disarm you, then obviously the safety would be/should be off already.

 

[KELSW]

I can easily sweep off my thumb safety on my Shield . I suppose if I were in a make believe quick draw contest with a gun slinger and I needed that extra .5 seconds I might fumble and forget to sweep my safety off . Usually in a real scenario you get a sense of danger way before you handle a firearm . If someone rushes you with a drawn weapon you have already lost . I get a hoot out of people telling me the safety is only between the ears usually the same people who have ND with their glocks . My carry gun has a safety period .

 

[Mister X]

If someone rushes you with a drawn weapon you have already lost .

Why is that?

 

[SATX]

All four of my shields have the thumb safety but the only time I ver use them is if I have to unholster to stow the gun in the car when it can't come with me, it's easier than removing the whole holster. The Shield safety is small and has a low profile, as well as a deliberate action (for lack of a better term) that it's a non-issue for me. I have never found the safety on unless I intentionally placed on safe.

 

[tnhawk]

......If you're new to guns the answer is education and training, not a switch to make up for poor gun handling or holster choice.

I'm not new to guns. I've trained and carried a 1911 since I first wore an Army uniform over 48 years ago. As it's hard to teach on old dog a new trick, a thumb safety is part of my training. My 9 mm and 45 acp Shields have a thumb safety or I would not have purchased them. Those who are new to guns probably didn't train the same.

Why do I prefer a manual transmission? Same answer.

 

[mbok]

If you integrate thumbing off the safety with your draw/presentation there is zero delay attributable to that action since the safety will be off before the gun reaches aim point. You simply switch it into fire position as the barrel rises from pointing down at the floor (when drawn from an IWB, OWB or pocket position.) Hence the time involved should not be a factor no matter how quickly a threat presents itself.

In a decade around law enforcement I had knowledge of probably 50 or more cases where police officers fired their weapons at suspects/attackers. I can only recall one case (which I witnessed personally) where there was an immediate draw/fire against a suspect who was also drawing a weapon. In the vast majority of cases there is some warning, especially for a situationally aware officer who sees hands in pockets, reaching under a car seat, etc. In a fairly large number of those cases the officer(s) already had their weapons in hand as they approached the situation, often alongside the seam of the trousers. There just really aren't many "high noon/draw pardner!" situations out there.

Since civilians are likely to face similar situations (carjackers approaching at the gas station, muggers sizing you up on the street) any reasonably alert CCW holder should already have a hand on the gun butt and the safety off before the need to present and possibly fire the weapon.

I carry either a double action hammerless LCR .357 or a .45 Shield, the latter with thumb safety engaged. I never feel unsafe because of that and in fact enjoy an elevated sense of safety.

By the way during that career I knew of at least four officers who experienced negligent discharges with revolvers, in all four when holstering weapons where something on the equipment belt engaged the trigger. I also saw several what I would term accidental discharges during fights and in one case a foot pursuit where the officer went to the ground tackling the suspect.

I am comfortable with a thumb safety and have never considered it an impediment to any necessary self defense reaction.

 

[silversnake]

I'm not new to guns. I've trained and carried a 1911 since I first wore an Army uniform over 48 years ago. As it's hard to teach on old dog a new trick, a thumb safety is part of my training. My 9 mm and 45 acp Shields have a thumb safety or I would not have purchased them. Those who are new to guns probably didn't train the same.

Why do I prefer a manual transmission? Same answer.

In your case I understand. You have trained with a safety for decades, it must be second nature to you by now. My comment was specifically to someone who said they were new to handguns.

 

[tobimaru]

I have two Shield 9's, both non-safety. It's what I'm used to, how I train, etc.

My friend is completely opposite, he prefers the manual safety and even caries a 1911, etc. His Shield has a safety.

We shoot together, the world keeps spinning...