time to up EDC?

[Univibe]

Train and carry with the biggest and highest capacity weapon you can manage safely and shoot effectively, if that's a j-frame, cool. However, I caution that comfort with the minimum you can do in life doesn't push us to being our best.

Roundgun speaks wisdom here.

 

[hsmith9491]

Like the way you think!

 

[SF VET]

Shooting for over 40 years, carried a 1911 in two wars, although only shot it for fun, never in anger, had an M16 for that. 15 years of IDPA, thousands of draw and shoot scenarios for practice. I practice often with my carry pistols, snap shooting, will be shooting indoor this afternoon. I practice a lot from 7 yards out to 20+ yards. I reload so always have plenty of ammo to practice with.

Living in UpState SC means in the heat of summer, there are some considerations for my chosen carry when wearing my usual T shirt. I finished several years of Chemo not long ago, so I poorly tolerate heat and humidity now, so that has a big part in my summer shirt wear.

When I am just out and about, my usual is a 365, no spare mags. In cooler temps, when I can wear an overshirt, a Dan Wesson ECO in .45, this is the smaller 1911 variant.

But I am on my church security team, and want to be able to shoot accurately from the communion rail to the back of the balcony. So for my church responsibility I want something with a low low risk of an AD/ND, and reasonable capacity and fairly concealable. So in church, I wear a H&K 2000 with one spare mag, Hornady Critical Defense.

And I shoot it very often and usually in IDPA.

Stay safe, and all the best....SF VET

 

[GT_80]

No matter what I carry, I always have a speed strip or spare mag...

Shield with extra 8 round mag... EC9S with 9 round spare mag, J frame with 6 round speed strip, etc etc. Most self defense shootings are over in 3-5 rounds, but sometimes you need more...

 

[SchemaEnigma]

I'm going to state a very much different view than what many (most? all?) in this thread are stating.

I am not, and never have been, in the military nor a LEO.

I carry to protect me and my loved ones, not to "protect and serve" the public at large.

In an incident like the CO supermarket, I would be using my carry gun to effect my own and my family's escape from danger, not to protect everyone else. Discharging the weapon would be a last resort if escape is not possible or if we are in immediate danger.

That may be selfish, or self-centered, but in these days of aggressive prosecutors and lawsuits, I'm not going to play policeman, let alone soldier.

Legitimate LEOs have a different set of rules under the law on the use of firearms than I have, permit or no permit.

 

[Bourget117]

I mostly carry my Bodyguard 380 over my Sig p239 .40 because of lightweight and size. But maybe now I'll start thinking of carrying the Bodyguard in a pocket or ankle holster and the p239 on the hip together.

 

[Univibe]

I'm going to state a very much different view than what many (most? all?) in this thread are stating.

I am not, and never have been, in the military nor a LEO.

I carry to protect me and my loved ones, not to "protect and serve" the public at large.

In an incident like the CO supermarket, I would be using my carry gun to effect my own and my family's escape from danger, not to protect everyone else. Discharging the weapon would be a last resort if escape is not possible or if we are in immediate danger.

That may be selfish, or self-centered, but in these days of aggressive prosecutors and lawsuits, I'm not going to play policeman, let alone soldier.

Legitimate LEOs have a different set of rules under the law on the use of firearms than I have, permit or no permit.

I'd submit that if a mass-shooting were unfolding before your eyes, neither you, nor I, nor anybody else, would know what they are going to do in advance.

 

[majick47]

Boyles down to awareness of your surroundings and always being prepared to deal with threats to your personal safety. Assailants much like animals if they don't pick up a cent of fear they will soon back off when they realize their victim might be capable of defending themselves. They only prey on weak targets who are not able to resist. Attacks on individuals at police stations, gun clubs etc fairly rare.

 

[Triggernosis]

Hard to believe that wasn't one person carrying there, especially in a state like Colorado. Looks like he picked the right store.

Well it must have been a gun-free zone, of course. *sarcasm*

 

[tops]

I'd submit that if a mass-shooting were unfolding before your eyes, neither you, nor I, nor anybody else, would know what they are going to do in advance.

I would make like a sewer! Larry

 

[SF VET]

I believe that in our psyche or subconscious mind, we have some sort of latent instinctive action plan. Perhaps preconditioned by our experience or training, or maybe just a human nature to help another. I think this response is why people run into burning buildings or dive into swirling waters, or fall upon some explosive, or jump onto an oncoming car to push another to safety. I think for women, it is innate to act to protect a child, whereas for males, a more broad trigger for action without thinking.

I agree one never really knows for sure how they will act, what they will do when confronted by a sudden dangerous situation. The Parkland safety officer did not know he would be too paralyzed to act in that shooting. And in the security video of the elderly Asian woman attacked while several people, one being a security person, closed the door to the shop while a few feet away the miscreant beat her. I don't know if I was out in the surf and someone next to me screamed and blood welled up from a shark. Would I fight and act, or flee to the shore. Plenty of reports of others diving into save the bitten person with the creature still looming.

I don't think one can cultivate their propensity to act courageously
nor when pondering what they might do in an abrupt dangerous situation. I also think, looking back on my own life, that our minds make an instant decision that acting does not really endanger ourselves, or places us too at death's door.

Napoleon expected his commanders to "..go to the sound of the guns." I have done so in the past, but really don't know what I would when a mass shooting was unfolding.

Of course, I would like to think my actions would be proper and appropriate and justified, but ......

All the best, and stay safe. SF VET

 

[snowman1967]

Real life

There are many valid contentions here, and they tend to reflect the type of training that the respondent has engaged in. Honestly, I am not looking to start an argument, but how many of us here have engaged in training beyond bad breath distances? How many have truly tried to see how far away they can successfully engage a target?

Before it is tossed back at me, chances are very good that range proficiency will quickly fade in a firefight. But really, how many people here plan to not put up a fight just because the threat is beyond their trained for engagement distance?

Perhaps it is because most of my life I have been a rifleman, I like to stretch the legs of my handguns. Not in any particular order, I have engaged in: NRA 2700 Precision Pistol (out to both 25 and 50 yards), both 25 and 50 yard PPC matches, and 200 meter IHMSA matches. Shooting at silhouettes with a revolver out to 220 yards/200 meters, can be scary, challenging, and satisfying!

Why carry extra ammo? First and foremost, chances are very good that if I am unfortunate enough to find myself in an engagement with an adversary outside of bad breath distances, I may be the only hope of neutralizing the threat, and NO, I don't plan on wasting valuable ammunition using "suppressing fire". If the threat is outside of traditional engagement distances, and I have a clear field of fire, as long as I have the ammo, I can walk the rounds onto the threat.

How many folks here have ever read the works of Elmer Keith? They can be inspiring when you have an interest in seeing how far away you can successfully engage a target with a handgun. Any artillerymen here? Considering the accuracy and capabilities of a 105mm howitzer, I have often heard the comparison that dropping a 105mm HE round at a target 10-15 miles away is not much different from hitting a target a 100 yards away with a 2" revolver, it just takes some practice!

I challenge you to the following skill test. If your comfort/practice distance is 7-10 yards, put up a silhouette at 50 yards and see how well you hit your target. If your comfort/practice distance is 50 yards, put up a lifesize silhouette at 100 yards or greater (if you have the distance available to you) and see how well you engage the target. You may just surprise yourself! Just because you've never done it before doesn't mean that you can't do it!

Remember, most of us haven't gotten to be as old as we are by playing by the rules all the time, and there are no rules or referees in a firefight!

I do try out to the max of 25 yards at the indoor range, I can hit the target, just need more practice with both my 9mm and .45 to get them more on target. Have not tried shooting at an outdoor range yet. That is on my to do list. What people also fail to realize, is that once that target is engaged, it throws off THEIR "mojo". They are now, instead of shooting helpless "fish in a barrel", having to face a threat that is shooting back at them. This throws off THEIR aim and proficiency as well. Unless they are military/law enforcement trained, they will probably be worse off than you in that situation. You can never have too much ammo, training, practice or firepower. Most of these losers are NOT proficient with a firearm, hence the reason they go after soft targets. They are not training to face armed resistance.

 

[HardToHandle]

Trolley Square Mall scenario is very reasonable and shows the huge tactical weaknesses of low capacity and no reloads.

Regardless, one determined individual saved countless lives even at a considerable disadvantage. And they used suppressive fire...

Justify your own decisions as you choose, but a literature review of past active shooters might be in order.

 

[SchemaEnigma]

Trolley Square Mall scenario is very reasonable and shows the huge tactical weaknesses of low capacity and no reloads.

Regardless, one determined individual saved countless lives even at a considerable disadvantage. And they used suppressive fire...

Justify your own decisions as you choose, but a literature review of past active shooters might be in order.

Source?

(minimum characters silliness)

 

[.455_Hunter]

All,

The Boulder event occured at a grocery store frequently used by my family and many of our friends. I have been a customer there since I was a little kid in the early 80's.

While there are many concealed carriers here, the afternoon of a work day could easily be a low concentration point. I know a few people for whom that is their primary store and would have engaged the guy without hesitation, but they were on Spring Break with their families. For myself, I would be haunted forever if I would have been running an errand there that day (very possible), had the timing / position to engage, and ran away instead. Others may feel differently.

A few clarifications on this event:

Any victims wounded by the perp were executed by several close range shots once they were hit. No wounded victims needed to go to the hospital. Keep that in mind.

Boulder PD entered and engaged immediately upon reaching the scene- no dithering, no waiting for back-up or SWAT. They prevented additional civilian deaths, and all active shooting by the perp stopped as soon as he was wounded in leg by one of the officers. RIP to hero Officer Talley who was killed in the exchange with the perp. This event was NOT a case of Stoneman Douglass or The Pulse LEO inaction syndrome.

I have seen no reliable sourcing indicating the perp wore body armor. Similar to the Aurora Theater shooter, he had a "tactical" vest.

The comment that this store catered to Kosher customers is not valid, regardless of what the "trusted sources" interwebz say.

It is MY belief (it may not be YOURS) that the perp in this event, like many similar perps, would have been on the ground in the fetal position if on the receiving end of ANY accurate return fire. The important thing is being able to put hits on target, potentially at extended distance (50+ yards), with whatever you are carrying. A .32 acp FMJ to the gut is OK.

When we lived in Arvada, we frequently patronized the perp's family restaurant- The Sultan Grill. The food was outstanding, and its hard to believe the perp could be tied to such a place.

 

[JohnSW]

We don't have a gun problem in this country, we have an untreated mental illness problem.

So, countries that rarely have spree killings have fewer untreated mentally ill people? I don't think so.

 

[sotexas]

I carry everyday except at work and also don't understand the licensing and then not carrying. I now carry the Shield Plus daily unless I will be tucking a shirt then I carry my Hellcat (works best for me) but no extra magazines. In the last decade I have worked hard on raising my level of awareness in my surroundings to hopefully reduce my chance of being a victim. I can say I don't know how I would react in a situation such as Boulder. All training I have done is home based or close direct confrontation.

 

[smithra_66]

So, countries that rarely have spree killings have fewer untreated mentally ill people? I don't think so.

All countries of the size of the USA have "spree killings."

But in the USA these types of killings are VERY rare as a percentage of our gigantic population of 333 million people.

Literally a few hundred die per year from "spree killings."

As if it's any better to die from "sprees" vs. just individual killings.

 

[Univibe]

So, countries that rarely have spree killings have fewer untreated mentally ill people? I don't think so.

Read up and think again. Socialist European countries have public health systems which address mental health. In the 80s America mostly closed its state hospitals and dumped the patients at the Greyhound bus stations.

But I agree with OP. Better to be armed for the worst case. That's why I carry G17 and one spare mag whenever I can. 35 rounds. And when I can't, P365 with the big spare. 26 rounds. No j-frames for me.

 

[smithra_66]

Read up and think again. Socialist European countries have public health systems which address mental health. In the 80s America mostly closed its state hospitals and dumped the patients at the Greyhound bus stations.

Well then how do you explain all the crazy people in Euro countries too then?

We just don't hear about them on the news every day.

There are tons of them, and they kill people there too, with whatever tools their oppressive governments still allow them to have.