Titegroup Question...

[Nevada Ed]

Well I a totally confused................
I just came from the Hodgdon site and I found this:

357 Magnum c/o WSPM........

45 ACP c/o F150 .........

9mm c/o CCI500 ............

40mm c/o WSP ................


using TG powder.

 

[roscoepc]

The guy just loves TG. Seriously, any powder can be used to reload just about any caliber. To call one jack of all trades is laughable, especiallg something as fast as TG. Any medium burner will be more versatile as you get into the magnum calibers & even rifles. There is a reason Unique has such a huge following, truly a joat in smokeless powders; shotgun, rifle of pistol. Then again, that could apply to any number of other powders.

According to Alliant's website, they don't even show a recipe for Unique to be used for the 500....

Alliant Powder - Reloader's Guide

So... Why are you even mentioning it??? I asked for powders that are applicable to the spec's I mentioned in this thread that have RECOMENDATIONS FROM THE POWDER MANUFACTUROR that meet what I want!!!!

I don't really care about other calibers as I'm not loading for them at the present...

I'm loading for the 500 S&W Magnum to a velocity of 1100-1200fps....

If anyone has a problem that this is not a "True" magnum load for the 500, that I should be loading for 2000fps, Well.... They can Bite Me... Develop Lockjaw, and be drug around for a few days while I'm eating a nice big mess of Black Eyed Peas!!!

I mean,, Really..... We're here to exchange useful/accurate information!! Let's stick with that!!!!!!

 

[venomballistics]

Hmmm, I would have thought they would have stuffed a 500 with unique.
It really is a natural choice for taming the lion without cutting down to a neutered kitten.

Power pistol is listed, and is kinda like unique in function.
It's max steps out in the 1600 range, so you should be able to dial in for 1200 without breaking a sweat.

 

[daniel lawecki]

After reading this for awhile I looked on Hodgdon reloading site. There are 9 loads listed for Titegroup for the 500 Smith & Wesson. Would I use the info and a fast burning powder with caution and not reducing this load maybe. But double charges could happen so care must be taken. when I couldn't find 2400, H110, and other slow burning powders I used Titegroup in my .44 mag. So would Hodgdon print bad loading data I think not. There are always better choices but that call has to be made by you. Your reloading knowledge in general and safety at the bench.

 

[sw282]

l like TiteGroup very much. lts my number one powder. For about a year it was my ONLY POWDER, because that was all l could find. l have been using it in my 629 Magnum Hunter for almost 2 years and its impossible for me to double charge a case. Aside from Sizing ad priming l load
o n e c a s e a t a t i m e.
Powder in case
Case to shell holder
Bullet in case
Seat bullet

lts slower using a Rock Chucker than a Dillon.
But SURER

 

[roscoepc]

l like TiteGroup very much. lts my number one powder. For about a year it was my ONLY POWDER, because that was all l could find. l have been using it in my 629 Magnum Hunter for almost 2 years and its impossible for me to double charge a case. Aside from Sizing ad priming l load
o n e c a s e a t a t i m e.
Powder in case
Case to shell holder
Bullet in case
Seat bullet

lts slower using a Rock Chucker than a Dillon.
But SURER

My New Hero!!!!!

 

[sw282]

Wana see how good TiteGroup works for me?

http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-...-rainy-ihmsa-match-october-fun-revolvers.html

 

[sw282]

http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-...lots-revolvers-november-silhouette-match.html

TiteGroup to the rescue AGAIN

November Match

 

[fredj338]

According to Alliant's website, they don't even show a recipe for Unique to be used for the 500....

Alliant Powder - Reloader's Guide

So... Why are you even mentioning it??? I asked for powders that are applicable to the spec's I mentioned in this thread that have RECOMENDATIONS FROM THE POWDER MANUFACTUROR that meet what I want!!!!

I don't really care about other calibers as I'm not loading for them at the present...

I'm loading for the 500 S&W Magnum to a velocity of 1100-1200fps....

If anyone has a problem that this is not a "True" magnum load for the 500, that I should be loading for 2000fps, Well.... They can Bite Me... Develop Lockjaw, and be drug around for a few days while I'm eating a nice big mess of Black Eyed Peas!!!

I mean,, Really..... We're here to exchange useful/accurate information!! Let's stick with that!!!!!!

Alliant doesn't show a lot of loads for many of their powders in many calibers. They are pushing newer powders, so not producing a lot of data with older powders. Also unique isn't really suitable for the 500 but more so than TG. Why I mention it, unique is a safer powder to use in a large case like the 500. If you had enough experience reloading you would know this, regardless of what Alliant puts on their site. You can take or leave the advice given, just don't come crying when you KB your gun because you missed that dbl charge.

 

[roscoepc]

Alliant doesn't show a lot of loads for many of their powders in many calibers. They are pushing newer powders, so not producing a lot of data with older powders. Also unique isn't really suitable for the 500 but more so than TG. Why I mention it, unique is a safer powder to use in a large case like the 500. If you had enough experience reloading you would know this, regardless of what Alliant puts on their site. You can take or leave the advice given, just don't come crying when you KB your gun because you missed that dbl charge.

I'm not going to come crying anywhere! And I will take the advise that is backed up with a powder manufacturers recommended recipe. And I will leave advise that is NOT backed up with a powder manufacturers recommended recipe alone!!

I won't use it period!!

I would much rather use Titegroup with the manufacturers recommendations than follow someone's recipe that say's "Just stuff the casing as full as it will hold without compressing the powder".....


Riiiight........

One that's not from the manufacturer.....

I guess I'm not gonna have that much experience with loads that aren't listed by the powder manufacturer...

I'll just do without the experience I guess......

When I load, I'm FULLY aware of the consequences of a double charge: Not only will I loose a $1300.00 pistol, I might loose my hand and part of my arm also!!

Not gonna happen on my watch......

 

[roscoepc]

If you want to avoid overcharging you can always adjust the case volume...

Works for me.

I Like Mike!!!!!

 

[roscoepc]

Here's a link to a page that was helpful to me in deciding on the powder I wanted to use loading a 350gr Hornady XTP bullet.. While Unique is NOT listed for the 350gr bullet, it is listed for other sizes..

Reloading 500 S&W Magnum Page

Correct me if I'm wrong but the largest charge I saw listed was for the 325 Grain BARNES XPB bullet using 20.1gr of Unique....

The largest charge for the 350gr bullet using Titegroup was 18.5gr.....

So we're talking 1.5gr difference between the max charges here, 3.0gr difference between on a double throw...

3.0gr is gonna make a double charge easier to see visually??

Really?????

I don't think so but... Then again, I'm just starting to learn about how to reload for the 500........

 

[ruggyh]

And I will take the advise that is backed up with a powder manufacturers recommended recipe.

roscoepc

Looks like your not following your own advise. Mr Smith page does not have any pressure data or attributions of where the data came from - IMO it is just another reloaders notes.

Please look at IMR Trailboss and its instructions.

An email to any of the powder manufactures will net you a response and the answer will be from an "expert informed source" typically within a week.

Or you use information from who knows whom on a forum or intranet page from individuals who may or may not know the time of day.

If you want to use a fast powder use it, in the end your gun, hands, and eyes.

Good luck and be safe
Ruggy

 

[roscoepc]

Ruggy, yes that page is indeed really just a bunch of notes but it did give me a lot of baseline info of just where to look to confirm the info listed!! So I am following my own advice by finding the info and then Confirming it at the manufacturers website!

And Thanks! I'll take a look at the Trailboss and I appreciate the suggestion!!

 

[fredj338]

Here's a link to a page that was helpful to me in deciding on the powder I wanted to use loading a 350gr Hornady XTP bullet.. While Unique is NOT listed for the 350gr bullet, it is listed for other sizes..

Reloading 500 S&W Magnum Page

Correct me if I'm wrong but the largest charge I saw listed was for the 325 Grain BARNES XPB bullet using 20.1gr of Unique....

The largest charge for the 350gr bullet using Titegroup was 18.5gr.....

So we're talking 1.5gr difference between the max charges here, 3.0gr difference between on a double throw...

3.0gr is gonna make a double charge easier to see visually??

Really?????

I don't think so but... Then again, I'm just starting to learn about how to reload for the 500........

You are really new to reloading aren't you? Put 18 gr of TG in a case & 18 gr of unique. The unique will occupy 1.5x the space & operate at lower pressures. Power pistol is better still, lower pressures, same volume as unique. 1.5x the volume just makes it easier to see a powder charge in a larger case.
Fwiw, if I only loaded using manufacturers data, I would never be able to load. Especially when it comes to allient, terrible data site.
The other issue all rookie reloaders make is assuming pressures build in a linear fashion as they hit max. This just isn't true. A little over max with something like TG can produce a spike, less likely as powder burn rates slow. You don't need to keep defending your choice, it's your choice. People here are just passing along their considerable exp to the less accomplished.

 

[Fishslayer]

Titegroup has been the focus of similar drama in a few Internet rants about blown guns.
Usually it's a magnum cartridge and the whole powder position thing comes up.
It may actually have legs, but it has never been proven.

This urban legend aside, (snip)

Titegroup has a rep for being spikey approaching max pressure. Strictly anecdotal & non scientific but it sure seems that whenever a blown polymer pistol is shown it usually involves .40 S&W and Titegroup reloads. I cringe whenever I see somebody recommend Titegroup to a n00b reloader. I won't even use it.

As for Titegroup in a .500 S&W? Just shaking my head here...

 

[roscoepc]

You are really new to reloading aren't you? Put 18 gr of TG in a case & 18 gr of unique. The unique will occupy 1.5x the space & operate at lower pressures. Power pistol is better still, lower pressures, same volume as unique. 1.5x the volume just makes it easier to see a powder charge in a larger case.
Fwiw, if I only loaded using manufacturers data, I would never be able to load. Especially when it comes to allient, terrible data site.
The other issue all rookie reloaders make is assuming pressures build in a linear fashion as they hit max. This just isn't true. A little over max with something like TG can produce a spike, less likely as powder burn rates slow. You don't need to keep defending your choice, it's your choice. People here are just passing along their considerable exp to the less accomplished.

Fred, one of the things I REALLY hate about about the internet is that conversation's/threads on the 'net can easily be taken the wrong way and people will get mad and vehemently defend their position at all cost's while, if the same discussion had happened in person, by this time we'd most likely grinning and thanking each other and having a beer or ice tea cooking hamburger's or steak's swapping stories about hunting, fishing, and such!!

I've been guilty of this at times as anyone who has ever posted on any forum!!

Yes I really am a Newbie when it comes to reloading as I was just starting my research about a year ago into set-up's, powders, and other stuff.. And I have done what I thought was the best for me, given what I had to work with given product availability.....

Again, If me, you or anyone else had this same conversation in person you would find that I don't assume anything, I do my research, and I'm always on the look-out for a better way to "build the mousetrap"!! Safely!!

If you or anyone else took me the wrong way my apologies are extended!! Again, sometimes using the keyboard Really just don't get it!!

 

[Rule3]

I think Freds post summed it all up really well.

Just for the sake of further discussion or knowledge.

Speer #14, Lyman #49 nor HORNADY 8 mention or tested Titegroup in their tests of the 500 SW Magnum.

Seems there is a good reason for that. The Handloader magazine article also did not mention the 500 SW Mag.


As also mentioned you can use TG, but is simply is not a good choice with the many other powders out there,neither would BE or other super fast powders.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Some quotes from the magazine article. I can not print the whole thing, copyright stuff

Charles Petty HL 292

"I can't really say Titegroup is the
best powder for any specific cartridge,

Of course, Titegroup also has its
critics, some highly vocal on the
web. One gripe I hear a lot is that
it is smoky and dirty, and some of
those shooters make it a point to
mention they clean their guns
every time they shoot – but they
worry about dirty? Both complaints
about smoke might well be
traced to the bullet lube if cast
bullets are involved. Another gripe
is that it is possible to doublecharge
the case. The fact that the
same can be said for virtually any
handgun powder makes me wonder
about the shooter. Inattentive
loaders probably should use Trail
Boss."

 

[venomballistics]

Titegroup has a rep for being spikey approaching max pressure. Strictly anecdotal & non scientific but it sure seems that whenever a blown polymer pistol is shown it usually involves .40 S&W and Titegroup reloads. I cringe whenever I see somebody recommend Titegroup to a n00b reloader. I won't even use it.

As for Titegroup in a .500 S&W? Just shaking my head here...

I don't really understand the desire for a greatly reduced 500 at all. 45-70 is a better choice for economy loading ... if there is such a thing with any of these moose missiles.
From round ball and shot loads on up to 500gr engine block busters, its out there somewhere.

 

[fredj338]

Fred, one of the things I REALLY hate about about the internet is that conversation's/threads on the 'net can easily be taken the wrong way and people will get mad and vehemently defend their position at all cost's while, if the same discussion had happened in person, by this time we'd most likely grinning and thanking each other and having a beer or ice tea cooking hamburger's or steak's swapping stories about hunting, fishing, and such!!

If you or anyone else took me the wrong way my apologies are extended!! Again, sometimes using the keyboard Really just don't get it!!

I'm taking no offense at all, I can tell you are new to this. It's just a matter of understanding things like powder burn rate & volumetric charge vs charge weight. You'll figure it out, just trying to keep you from blowing up a gun. It is not a coincidence that most KB guns are done using uberfast burning powders with supposedly small charges.
I don't like TG at all, for anything; burns too hot for lead bullets & too small a powder charge for me to visually verify charges & I always visually verify charges. It's how I have stayed safe for 40yrs of reloading & more than 250K rds downrange w/o incident. There are at least 6 powders of sim burn rate, all have a greater volume per charge weight than TG, all burn cooler, better for lead bullets, pretty much all I shoot.