Titegroup Question...

[Rule3]

Hornady has published load data for the 500 S&W Magnum and Titegroup covering bullets from 325 gr right on up to 500 gr and pressures ranging from 22.500 psi on right up to 50,700 psi with loads ranging from 11 gr of powder right on up to 20 grains. Sounds safe to me.

OK, look at the Hodgdon data for a 500 gr bullet

13.0 gr =40,200 psi

15.0gr=50,000 psi

Gain in velocity is barely 100 fps

So if the op wants to try and see 15 grs of powder in a 500 SW case, they more power to him.

There is just not much margin for error or wiggle room using a fast powder, 2 more grains ups the pressure by 10,000 psi!!

Max psi is 60,000 psi

Its a 500 magnum not a 38 special!

 

[alwslate]

Titegroup is promoted by Hodgdon as a powder that is not position
sensitive and so is well suited to light loads in large cases. One of
the reasons for this is that Titegroup is easily ignited, making the
position of the powder within the case largely irrelevant to the
ballistics. It would seem that if Hodgdon publishes loads for Titegroup
for a particular cartridge then those loads are safe to use as published.

 

[Lou_the_welder]

I would not have loaded a small pistol powder for a magnum one. Fill the powder almost all the way up on whatever you use (granted correct weight powder to weight bullet). I run mine through a progressive. I got into the habit of watching the powder level even on all the cases. I like 2400. If i couldnt buy some, i would load something else then come back to it when the powder became available. I do use titegroup. I like the powder. I use it on anything 38 down.
I understand powder sometimes isnt available.

 

[Rule3]

Titegroup is promoted by Hodgdon as a powder that is not position
sensitive and so is well suited to light loads in large cases. One of
the reasons for this is that Titegroup is easily ignited, making the
position of the powder within the case largely irrelevant to the
ballistics. It would seem that if Hodgdon publishes loads for Titegroup
for a particular cartridge then those loads are safe to use as published.

It is not a question so much as being safe it is more a matter of what powder is best for the job at hand, Sure you can find most any powder listed for all kinds of calibers but what is the better choice?? It was also about filler or stuffing Dacron in the case which is not needed nor a common best practice.

There are many many powders out there why not use one that is more suitable to the job?

Generally a super fast powder is not considered a Magnum powder.

The reloader can use whatever the heck they want.

 

[venomballistics]

It is not a question so much as being safe it is more a matter of what powder is best for the job at hand, Sure you can find most any powder listed for all kinds of calibers but what is the better choice?? It was also about filler or stuffing Dacron in the case which is not needed nor a common best practice.

There are many many powders out there why not use one that is more suitable to the job?

Generally a super fast powder is not considered a Magnum powder.

The reloader can use whatever the heck they want.

yes, just as one might invest in a Ferrari 458 Italia and replace its engine with one from a Toyota Yaris .....
fast burn in magnums is kinda like this.

 

[Rule3]

yes, just as one might invest in a Ferrari 458 Italia and replace its engine with one from a Toyota Yaris .....
fast burn in magnums is kinda like this.

Less maintenance though and a lot cheaper to run.

 

[venomballistics]

Less maintenance though and a lot cheaper to run.

yes, though it would also eliminate its design intent of glorious excess.

 

[rwsmith]

You can do that tip up the barrel thing......

You can do that tip up the barrel thing between each shot, and it might get you a big more consistency between shots, but those powders are formulated to be easy to light and fast burning so the powder doesn't burn like a fuse even spread along the bottom of the case. And if you tip up the barrel between shots the amount of safety if will give you is zero. 99.9% chance problems are caused by overloads or underloads that cause a squib.

The tiny amount of powder in a Titegroup load is almost guaranteed to not touch the primer. But it still works.

 

[johngalt]

What I underlined on your post is precisely just why I'm using Titegroup!! It's actually available in my area! I fully understand the dangers of a double or, God help me, a triple throw!! That's why I'm so anal when I do my loading! I know stuff happens BUT, I've done my best to eliminate any room for error to the bare minimum!!

That said..... I'm still looking for an answer to my initial question which is in my 1st post!!

Thanks for all the responses so far!!

The reason some people use filler is to take care of possible powder position sensitivity issues, to keep the powder up against the primer. However, using filler is a bad idea. The loads were developed WITHOUT any filler. Adding filler effectively reduces case capacity and adds mass that will be sent down the barrel, both of which raises pressure. Titegroup is supposed to be position insensitive, so even if it wasn't a bad idea, I doubt it would serve much purpose.

The old Bullseye detonation stories are most likely a combination of double charging cases and people letting their dies get gummed up with wax lube and seating the bullets too deep. No one has ever been able to prove that detonation has actually happened.

 

[Rule3]

yes, though it would also eliminate its design intent of glorious excess.

Just fill it up with Ethyl please or Sunoco 260!

Magnum petrol.

 

[fredj338]

Hornady has published load data for the 500 S&W Magnum and Titegroup covering bullets from 325 gr right on up to 500 gr and pressures ranging from 22.500 psi on right up to 50,700 psi with loads ranging from 11 gr of powder right on up to 20 grains. Sounds safe to me.

Yep, until you drop that double charge & can't visually verify it. 11gr would just about cover the bottom of the case, 22gr, yes you could see it, iff you look or measure with a dowel. If you do all that, sure use TG. To this day I don't get TG, but especially don't get it in magnum rounds.

 

[Nevada Ed]

I used Bullseye in 12 Ga. trap loads......!!

Blue Dot with Magnum Steel pellet duck & goose loads...!!

What's the big thing with TG in pistol loads ??

You just have to know what is going on..............!!

Get er done.

 

[M1A]

I have used Titegroup for many years and many, many, thousands of .45 colt, .44 spl, and .44mag. I don't watch TV or read a book while I reload on a Dillon 450. I do load slow and methodical.
I have a lot of experience with the powder, and it does what Hodgon says it does.

 

[roscoepc]

OK, look at the Hodgdon data for a 500 gr bullet

13.0 gr =40,200 psi

15.0gr=50,000 psi

Gain in velocity is barely 100 fps

So if the op wants to try and see 15 grs of powder in a 500 SW case, they more power to him.

There is just not much margin for error or wiggle room using a fast powder, 2 more grains ups the pressure by 10,000 psi!!

Max psi is 60,000 psi

Its a 500 magnum not a 38 special!

You're assuming I'm loading a 500gr bullet.. I'm not.. Check the info for the 350gr bullet. The minimum is 11.ogr producing 1032fps and 23,100lbs of pressure.. The max charge is 18.5gr producing 1461fps and 50,000lbs of pressure..

I want about 1100fps out of the rounds I load so I'm using 12.0-12.2gr for my charge and the weight is measured EVERY time I throw powder on a digital scale that I recalibrate about every 15-25 rounds I throw. After I set the funnel and powder tray down I immediately pick up the charged casing, a bullet, then seat the bullet and press the bullet..

Every time.... No exceptions...

That way I don't have to actually see the powder level because I have just measured it!

And with the charge size being from 11.0-18.5, loading at 12.0gr gives me a nice "fudge factor", well away from the max charge!!

If I run some 500 gr rounds through her, they will most likely be store bought Hornady XTP's like I've got right now for those pesky pink elephant's that keep raiding my apple tree's!!!

 

[roscoepc]

Yep, until you drop that double charge & can't visually verify it. 11gr would just about cover the bottom of the case, 22gr, yes you could see it, iff you look or measure with a dowel. If you do all that, sure use TG. To this day I don't get TG, but especially don't get it in magnum rounds.

If you read Post #34, you'll find there is no way I'm gonna throw a double charge IF I FOLLOW THE LOADING PROCEEDURES I'VE SET UP FOR MYSELF!!!!

And I always do and I always will!!!!

 

[fredj338]

If you read Post #34, you'll find there is no way I'm gonna throw a double charge IF I FOLLOW THE LOADING PROCEEDURES I'VE SET UP FOR MYSELF!!!!

And I always do and I always will!!!!

That's fine roscoe, always is like saying never though. I wager the vast majority if those blowing up a gun also said they always, but it only takes one. TG just makes it that much more diff to verify a charge in a large case, fact. You & others like it, but as been noted, it's just not the best tool for the job. Your choice of course, we are just giving an informed opinion.

 

[roscoepc]

That's fine roscoe, always is like saying never though. I wager the vast majority if those blowing up a gun also said they always, but it only takes one. TG just makes it that much more diff to verify a charge in a large case, fact. You & others like it, but as been noted, it's just not the best tool for the job. Your choice of course, we are just giving an informed opinion.

Ladies and Gentleman we have a Bingo!! And I do thank you for posting!! Informed Opinions are just what I'm looking for when I post here on any subject!!

 

[S&WIowegan]

Tite Group is the current bogeyman of reloaders because so many people have blown up a gun with it. Before TG it was Bullseye that generated all the stories. I have friend here who blew up his new 627 8-shot many years ago with a TiteGroup load in a 357 case. It blew while he was shooting an IPSC stage in front of God and everybody. We could never find the pieces. He is positive he could not have double-charged because he loads with a Dillon 650. S&W said they found no flaws in the gun and refused to sell him another one.

Another shooter here uses TG for every cartridge he loads!

The fault is not the powder but the errors made by we mere mortals. The stories condemning TG come because many simply can't accept they erred.

My only complaint on TG is that it burns VERY hot and will make a gun too hot to handle if enough rounds are fired rapidly.

I load 15 grs. of TiteGroup under a 350 gr. lead bullet as my powder puff 500 S&W load.

 

[rwsmith]

Only two downsides and only one is important...

I'm the same as you. I bought an 8lb jug because powder is so hit and miss where I'm at and I'm also fairly new to reloading. Then I started hearing all the stories of nuclear bombs being let off because of it. Getting ready to load some 38 special and 9mm with it as I shoot with a guy at the range that uses it in just about everything he has up to 44 magnum.
He said it measures better than most other powders but you have to be attentive when loading with it. He shoots there a lot and has been using it for several years and if there had been an issue he would say so.

1) You won't get high performance out of it, it's made for target loads.

2) If you double charge it say goodbye to your gun. If you are careful not to double charge, you're good to go.

Other than that it there are no problems that I know of.

PS: One good thing about TG and Bullseye is that a pound lasts a long time. Even a lot longer with a smaller caliber that doesn't take so much powder. What is it? Something like 3000 loads per lb. in .38 caliber?

 

[Rule3]

Ladies and Gentleman we have a Bingo!! And I do thank you for posting!! Informed Opinions are just what I'm looking for when I post here on any subject!!

Which is what we try to do. If your mind is set on using TG then why ask? Yes, it can be used but there are better choices, period.
You want to use it, so go for it.