To clean or not to clean.....

[Jyezahn]

don't have to be an 'operator' any soldier who has been in the sand box or basically anywhere will tell you a light film.

Maybe you misunderstood me and thought I meant "special operator". I meant any operator, whether it be a supply operator, intelligence operator, maintenance operator, etc. Any military (not just soldiers) their job with their firearm in the field, basically.

 

[yzf128r]

I guess im the opposite. While i make sure the gun is functional, and that the barrel is free from debris i dont clean it before going to the range.

I also toss the manuals into the fireplace. I find that online places like this are more informative if i have a concern. How often has a manual said that you cant shoot handloads or +p rounds when in reality both are perfectly fine. So it seems some of the manual is informative while parts are a CYA and its up to the user to figure out which is which and thats why you get arguments from people about shooting +p in their guns. "Oh gosh no! S&W told me never to shoot +p in my M&P 9".

There is more real life info on Youtube then there is in those manuals

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

I'm not sure i agree with you on this. For experienced gun owners/users your method may be ok, but I believe the manuals are mostly geared towards new owners. While hand loads and +p loads may work fine (if you load them yourself) but there are many stories of people not having good luck with such loads, and damaging their guns and even themselves. Would you shoot hand loads that were given to you by a shady looking stranger? I know that none of my guns will ever see a load that is not factory, or made by me. I think it is fine if experienced users want to toss the manual, but I think that new or inexperienced users should read it cover to cover twice before even attempting to shoot the gun. I think that a lot of accidents could be prevented if everyone did. Just my 2c.

 

[roadkill45]

Maybe you misunderstood me and thought I meant "special operator". I meant any operator, whether it be a supply operator, intelligence operator, maintenance operator, etc. Any military (not just soldiers) their job with their firearm in the field, basically.

my bad! after 21 years in the Army, you just don't know how sick of the word "operator" i am!! Kinda like "know what i'm talking about", "at the end of the day", etc. Buzzwords kill me!

 

[Buckskinner]

90% of service members and veterans would disagree with you. Even in tropical humid environments, there's a lot of stuff that sticks and gums up. The dustcover is overrated, especially if you've actually been an operator. Dustcovers work well for range shooters and safe queens.

90% is a big number and I'll take that bet... Go over to AR15.com and see what most people recommend, even service members/veterans. We are not talking about active duty guns here... Obviously you have to adjust to your environment, just like anything in life. Most AR's that we are talking about here see much less than harsh environments.

Actually dust covers do nothing for range shooters and safe queens. No point of even being there. They don't have any such device on standard hunting rifles, heck not even on the 15/22... My guess is service members use them up for a reason. They may not keep everything out but they do work.

 

[Jyezahn]

90% is a big number and I'll take that bet... Go over to AR15.com and see what most people recommend, even service members/veterans. We are not talking about active duty guns here... Obviously you have to adjust to your environment, just like anything in life. Most AR's that we are talking about here see much less than harsh environments.

Actually dust covers do nothing for range shooters and safe queens. No point of even being there. They don't have any such device on standard hunting rifles, heck not even on the 15/22... My guess is service members use them up for a reason. They may not keep everything out but they do work.

People on a forum (hmm, much like this one) hardly represent the majority of users. (even those on AR15.com). My experience, as a 14 year veteran of the Air Force, having deployed in combat zones as well as standard long-haul setups, and having worked closely with Army, Navy, and Marines, has been what I stated above. The only ones that I have met who think that more lube is better, are the boneheads who end up having to field strip their rifles all of the time because they've gummed up. Taken as an average, my 90% still stands.

With regard to the dustcover statement, military personnel carrying, keep the dustcover closed until they are in a situation where they must fire. Once that happens, closing the dustcover directly afterward is the last thing on their minds. It may not get closed again until they return to base and clean their gear. (if even then) I didn't say the dustcover didn't serve a purpose, I said it was overrated. Most of them do not lock up tight enough to keep a lot of sand and grit out, and if you bump your rifle, 9 times out of 10, it will pop open because the BCG moved. As for why the AR-15's have a dustcover, it's more than likely due to the fact that the BCG in action, will consequently get lubrication on it, and the indentation and pin holes can act as a trap for FOD. Standard hunting rifles and the 15-22 do not have such a FOD trap.

 

[yzf128r]

I also run my AR lightly lubricated. Not because of things I have read, but from trial and error. A very light coat of CLP, and high temp grease in high wear areas works great for my rifle. Everyone's situation is different, so I'm sure what works for me might not be best for others, and vise versa.

 

[ks15-22]

Clean it for sure. I ran a patch through the barrel of my brand new in the box 15-22 and was surprised at the gunk that came out.

 

[Maddmax]

I'M a CCP holder/NRA Member/Hunter. I'm just trying to prove to a friend that he is wrong.

Then if that's the case,shoot a half dozen shooting stations away from him. Refuse to shoot with him or wack him in the back of the head with an open hand and ask him what he doesn't understand about safety.

I never have or will I ever shoot with un-safe people.

 

[Maddmax]

Actually dust covers do nothing for range shooters and safe queens. No point of even being there. They don't have any such device on standard hunting rifles, heck not even on the 15/22... My guess is service members use them up for a reason. They may not keep everything out but they do work.

Dust covers are no more than a left over fix they had with the early model M-16's in a Jungle environment. It's suppose to keep "gunk" out of the BCG's grooves to help with the Forward Assist,being they changed out the (M-1 & M-14) bolt action to a charging handle in the rear.

 

[Majorlk]

I also toss the manuals into the fireplace.

That's the attitude that causes new shooters to ask questions that can be clearly answered by RTFM!

 

[Buckskinner]

As I said before, we are not talking combat guns or conditions here. I have probably run 15k through my oldest AR without needing to field strip due to gumming up from excess lube. And even if it did, I would prefer that to it wearing prematurely due to lack of lubrication. Uncle Sam does not give me replacement parts...

And wet doesn't mean dripping...

Here is a good video on cleaning an AR, good stuff on lubing starts about 14:40. Opinions may vary.

How To Clean & Lubricate Your AR-15 Series Rifle (HD) - YouTube

 

[Majorlk]

Then if that's the case,shoot a half dozen shooting stations away from him. Refuse to shoot with him or wack him in the back of the head with an open hand and ask him what he doesn't understand about safety.

I never have or will I ever shoot with un-safe people.

At my range, we ask such people to leave.

 

[Maddmax]

he stated that he loved it when people fired a shot or two, then ran a brass brush down them, lather rinse repeat, then cleaned the **** out of it after each range session. reason: they damaged their barrel more and wore it out faster, so they had to buy a new one way prior to the life expectancy of the barrel. that was for bigger centerfires, not .22's but i go with the same principle. just always ensure your barrel is clear of any debris that could cause a malf.

I've yet to see a hard steal barrel get wore out by a mild metal brass brush.

 

[Jyezahn]

As I said before, we are not talking combat guns or conditions here. I have probably run 15k through my oldest AR without needing to field strip due to gumming up from excess lube. And even if it did, I would prefer that to it wearing prematurely due to lack of lubrication. Uncle Sam does not give me replacement parts...

And wet doesn't mean dripping...

Here is a good video on cleaning an AR, good stuff on lubing starts about 14:40. Opinions may vary.

How To Clean & Lubricate Your AR-15 Series Rifle (HD) - YouTube

I think you misunderstood me or didn't read my original post (it's #12 in this thread). But I agree with what was stated in the video. He put what basically amounts to a fine layer of lube on the contact points. To me, when I see someone say, "AR's can run wet" or "lube it like you're gonna have sex", that makes me think of over lubrication which can cause more damage to your upper should FOD find itself in there. I also agree that underlubrication can cause problems, which is why I stated that a fine layer was sufficient. Combat rifle or not, if you're using it in tactical training or 3-gun, or whatever, you run the real possibility of FOD. That's not to be interpreted as "crawling around dragging it through the dirt and mud, FOD".

 

[Buckskinner]

I think you misunderstood me or didn't read my original post (it's #12 in this thread). But I agree with what was stated in the video. He put what basically amounts to a fine layer of lube on the contact points. To me, when I see someone say, "AR's can run wet" or "lube it like you're gonna have sex", that makes me think of over lubrication which can cause more damage to your upper should FOD find itself in there. I also agree that underlubrication can cause problems, which is why I stated that a fine layer was sufficient. Combat rifle or not, if you're using it in tactical training or 3-gun, or whatever, you run the real possibility of FOD. That's not to be interpreted as "crawling around dragging it through the dirt and mud, FOD".

Fair enough.

 

[Majorlk]

McCormick of McCormick barrels did an article on breaking in barrels. he stated that he loved it when people fired a shot or two, then ran a brass brush down them, lather rinse repeat, then cleaned the **** out of it after each range session. reason: they damaged their barrel more and wore it out faster, so they had to buy a new one way prior to the life expectancy of the barrel.

Maybe, and I mean maybe, for bench rest rifles, but not for 99 percent of the firearms in use. The softest modern barrel steel is far harder than the hardest brass brush. It would take thousands upon thousands of brass brush strokes to even begin to affect the bore of a barrel.

This is an urban myth from the late 1800s to the early 1900s when very soft steel was used in rifle barrels.

 

[Maddmax]

I also have a 35+ year old High Standard that blows his theory right out of the water. For that matter ALL my "old" weapons blow that theory out of the water. ...wear out a barrel cleaning it. ...what next.

 

[Majorlk]

I also have a 35+ year old High Standard that blows his theory right out of the water. For that matter ALL my "old" weapons blow that theory out of the water. ...wear out a barrel cleaning it. ...what next.

My Trophy Supramatic was made in '63 and originally belonged to a fellow in the Army's marksman unit at Ft. Benning. He had it for 20 years. It still puts 10 rounds in the 10-ring on a 25 yard slow fire target from a machine rest. It had a brush and patch through the barrel after every practice session and match.

Hot centerfire rounds with heavy copper fouling can be another matter.

 

[Buckskinner]

My Trophy Supramatic was made in '63 and originally belonged to a fellow in the Army's marksman unit at Ft. Benning. He had it for 20 years. It still puts 10 rounds in the 10-ring on a 25 yard slow fire target from a machine rest. It had a brush and patch through the barrel after every practice session and match.

Hot centerfire rounds with heavy copper fouling can be another matter.

Yes, this is where that comes from. Bench rest and rifles that are expected to hit les that 1/2 MOA. I have a couple that do not see a brass brush ever. Don't need to for that matter...

 

[Taylor339]

As recommended, I stripped mine before the first trip to the range. I was expecting it to be filthy and greasy based on what I had read here. What I found was it was very clean from the factory. The only grease on mine was under the hand guard which I haven't figured out yet how to clean without removing the barrel which I'm not willing to try. I did put a little oil on the bolt rails. It only has 60 rounds through it but it ran perfectly.