I am using the CFE for all of my rifle loads now, 223,30-30 and 308. I am really happy with the results. I used to use IMR4895, I am getting better velocity, lower pressures and great accuracy with the CFE over the 4895 although I get great accuracy with the 4895.
To Re-Load or Not???
- Thread starter stavman11
- Start date
JaPes
Member
*Sigh*
Reloading has turned into such an "involved" hobby. My LGS did have the 55gr Winchester soft points. $10.99 / bag of 100. I picked up three. I shoot between 40 to 50 rounds of .223 during a range trip. I only get out to the rifle tube every month or two. This should last a while.
I was looking for brass cases at Cabelas. No luck. I picked up some pre-loaded brass that is on sale.
I'm waiting for the dies & case length gauge to be delivered.
EDIT 4:00 p.m. CST - The dies just arrived in the mail.
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John you just need to take a road trip, you only have to cross half of Illinois Part of Indiana, All of Missouri and 3/4ths of Kansas and we can let you stretch out your guns legs... LOL
I am loading some old .308 Hornady Soft Point 150's for varmint hunting and using the last of the IMR4895 for that. The box is so old that the price tag on the 100 round box is $4.95 LOL
I am loading some old .308 Hornady Soft Point 150's for varmint hunting and using the last of the IMR4895 for that. The box is so old that the price tag on the 100 round box is $4.95 LOL
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I received my "Modern Reloading" By Richard Lee today. I ordered it from Midway they have it on sale. Anyway it seems to be a great book with a lot of indepth information not available in most of my reloading books. For instance it has a chart that tells you how much powder fits in what size of lee dipper and it has a lot of powders listed. The only powder I havent found is the CFE223 but that just came out this year. It goes into a lot of detail that I have never seen before. Just thought I would share that.
I agree.
Also lee's chart is light by 5-10% - so it may say 43cc of W231 is 4.5 grains but it will weigh in about 4.3. Supposedly this is to allow for different batches of powder so that things err on the low (safe) side.
I've been on ebay of late picking up some old reloading books as I want to use 2400 in 38/357mag and that's a powder not listed in more modern books. I've found recipes from as low as 7 to as high as 15gr...some say start at 7, others 9 or even 12.
The more books the better!
JaPes
Member
welcome to the reloaders club
I've been a straight-wall pistol case reloading club member for a few months now. When I started, bottle-neck rifle cartridges were just too intimidating.
If the Bacon-Apocalypse comes to pass, I'll drive down south to get me some feral hog. I hear they're tasty...and it will give me a good excuse to get a .300 BLK upper.
I concur. I'm always looking up data between the three books I own, and I still want to add one more book.
30-06 is my next challenge. Been loading 9mm on a loadmaster progressive then added 38spcl. I have 357 cases but haven't loaded them yet. Loaded over 2000 rounds this year.
A guy at the range has an interest in CMP garand competition and in exchange for letting me use his 'spare' garand all I have to do is shoot with him, with the goal of going to camp perry next summer.
Ammo is the one thing I do have to pay for (duh!). And mil surp is getting harder to find and costly - 75c to $1 a round is pretty common price range.
I can reload the brass he has for 27c a round (thats bullet, powder, primer). So I picked up a lee challenger press and next week I should be ready to give it a try. Going to be interesting I think - rifle, bottle neck, single stage press, 8# powder jug, cleaning primer pockets, trimming cases...gonna be interesting all this new stuff. Load wise there's nothing much to work up though - 47gr of 4895 w/ 150FMJ, give or take a grain is about all the play room there is.
But at $275 for 1000 rounds vs $749 for 1000 (based on what he paid locally for some greek mil surp ammo) how can I not reload?
JaPes
Member
I broke my reloading cherry on .38 Special & .357 Mag. My only intent in reloading was to escape the ridiculously high price of factory .357 Mag. Well now I have the basic low-volume equipment, might as well save on .45 ACP too. Oh look, 9mm went up to $14 per 50 factory rounds. Added 9mm dies. I got tired of readjusting dies between .38 & .357, so I bought another die set to dedicate to .357. Now I broke my rifle caliber reloading cherry.
IMO, the reloading addiction is worse than the firearms addiction. I'm no longer constrained by the cost of factory ammo, and free to explore the possibility of owning calibers I wouldn't previously consider.
There's also the quasi-mad scientist aspect of reloading that is appealing.
IMO, the reloading addiction is worse than the firearms addiction. I'm no longer constrained by the cost of factory ammo, and free to explore the possibility of owning calibers I wouldn't previously consider.
There's also the quasi-mad scientist aspect of reloading that is appealing.
Ran into a guy at the range. He has 'friends' that get him wheel weights and so his lead is free. So his bullets are free. He can shoot anything (well, pistol) for less than a 22LR!
I've avoided 45 because of the cost of bullets...if I can get free lead, well....then I'll need a furnace or two, ingot molds, bullet molds...and of course a few 45s, dies...
Absolutely! Metal, fire, explosions, destruction...what's not to like?
storeyteller
Member
My best friend and shooting buddy reloads as well and we often load together. Every time I go to his house his wife is playing something classical on the piano (Beethoven/Motzart?). I always say it makes me feel like Hannibal Lector to be loading ammo while listening to someone play such beautiful music.
I have some breathing issues, on oxygen most of the time so I refrain from pouring my own bullets, but I have about 250 435gr Maxi-Ball bullets for my 54 cal muzzleloader that I will never use, they would be perfect for someone to melt down and repour into something usable....What in North America would I need 435 gr bullet for, they came with my TC Hawkens and are probably the reason the previous owner got rid of it.
JaPes
Member
Maybe you can work up a trade with a someone who casts bullets. You send him the lead, he sends you back a few projectiles you can use.
And back to the .223 reloading for the M&P 15-Sport...
The dang lee die instructions state to screw down the die until it touches the shell holder, back off the ram, then screw down the die 1/4 to 1/3 turn. I am having a dickens of a time getting an accurate setting using the breech lock / lock nut combo.
Decided to pick up the breech lock lock nut eliminator bushings.
JaPes
Member
This is getting a bit annoying. I'm following the die instructions. Screw down until said die touches shell holder, screw down another set amount.
I de-capped & resized. Put them on a gauge & trimmed. Debur/Champher. Charge case.
Now these are the things I'm not sure about because I have no clue:
First, when placing the projectile into the case mouth before seating it doesn't just fit in there like a flared pistol case. I have to be careful pushing the ram so the projectile doesn't fall off the case mouth.
Second, I've read that .223 doesn't need to be crimped because it's held in by neck tension. The bullet seating die instruction state that it crimps as it seats, but I can't tell. I put it through a Lee FCD per instructions, and have no frame of reference to judge what crimp (if any) was imparted.
I thought I'd compare it to a factory round. The crimp area is small, and it looks like a roll crimp not what I believe a collet crimp looks like.
grrr... I need to find a reloading class somewhere.
I de-capped & resized. Put them on a gauge & trimmed. Debur/Champher. Charge case.
Now these are the things I'm not sure about because I have no clue:
First, when placing the projectile into the case mouth before seating it doesn't just fit in there like a flared pistol case. I have to be careful pushing the ram so the projectile doesn't fall off the case mouth.
Second, I've read that .223 doesn't need to be crimped because it's held in by neck tension. The bullet seating die instruction state that it crimps as it seats, but I can't tell. I put it through a Lee FCD per instructions, and have no frame of reference to judge what crimp (if any) was imparted.
I thought I'd compare it to a factory round. The crimp area is small, and it looks like a roll crimp not what I believe a collet crimp looks like.
grrr... I need to find a reloading class somewhere.
John,
My RCBS and Dillon resize dies both say to screw the die down until it touches the ram, then back it off up to half a turn. But once I got my headspace gauge I found that I needed to screw the die down just shy of touching the ram.
As for the mouth flaring, there really isn't any. Using boat tailed bullets makes it easier to set the bullet into the mouth. Otherwise you'll need to chamfer the inside of the mouth a bit so that a flat base bullet can be set.
With regards to crimp, I have my RCBS seating die backed off so that it's not even close to applying a crimp. With an empty case in the ram and fully raised, I screw the die down until I feel it hit the top of the case, then I back it off a turn. Once that's locked in place I adjust the seating plug for COL. I can push a loaded round against my benchtop and not have any bullet movement which I consider GTG.
My RCBS and Dillon resize dies both say to screw the die down until it touches the ram, then back it off up to half a turn. But once I got my headspace gauge I found that I needed to screw the die down just shy of touching the ram.
As for the mouth flaring, there really isn't any. Using boat tailed bullets makes it easier to set the bullet into the mouth. Otherwise you'll need to chamfer the inside of the mouth a bit so that a flat base bullet can be set.
With regards to crimp, I have my RCBS seating die backed off so that it's not even close to applying a crimp. With an empty case in the ram and fully raised, I screw the die down until I feel it hit the top of the case, then I back it off a turn. Once that's locked in place I adjust the seating plug for COL. I can push a loaded round against my benchtop and not have any bullet movement which I consider GTG.
JaPes
Member
Thanks for the help Bill. I appreciate it very much. I'm just a little on edge trying apply book knowledge. The "push a loaded round against my benchtop" test is a kernel of wisdom that would have taken me forever to discover on my own.
I have a Lyman .223 Headspace Gauge on order, due to arrive on Tuesday.
I have a Lyman .223 Headspace Gauge on order, due to arrive on Tuesday.
storeyteller
Member
It gets better.
I wouldn't worry about the crimp right now, just get some loaded and shoot 'em. There will be plenty of time to learn as you go.
Like Bill said the case mouths don't flare, but I don't chamfer unless I trim. Just hold the bullet til the seating die catches it and seat it with love.
I know you have the portable press thingy (which I like BTW) and I don't know how you set the dies up on that. The 3 and 4 hole turret presses have some give in 'em so that's why you put the ram up and then give a 1/4 turn more.
I have an old Lee 3 die deluxe set that I used for loading bolt action .223 and that has no crimp in it.
I saw the dies you have are Lee, but not familiar with
the single dies, only the sets. I'm guessing that they're specifically for the press you have. Can you give a product number or link so I can see what you got?
Thanks.
I wouldn't worry about the crimp right now, just get some loaded and shoot 'em. There will be plenty of time to learn as you go.
Like Bill said the case mouths don't flare, but I don't chamfer unless I trim. Just hold the bullet til the seating die catches it and seat it with love.
I know you have the portable press thingy (which I like BTW) and I don't know how you set the dies up on that. The 3 and 4 hole turret presses have some give in 'em so that's why you put the ram up and then give a 1/4 turn more.
I have an old Lee 3 die deluxe set that I used for loading bolt action .223 and that has no crimp in it.
I saw the dies you have are Lee, but not familiar with
the single dies, only the sets. I'm guessing that they're specifically for the press you have. Can you give a product number or link so I can see what you got?
Thanks.
JaPes
Member
Again Bill, thanks. I tested the 10 rounds I made. 4 projectiles dropped back into the case.
I pulled all 10 rounds, and tried again from the beginning. I reset the dies. Tested the 10 new test rounds and they all passed the push test. Now they just have to pass the Lyman Headspace Gauge.
Will do. I'm trying to make the first 10 rounds good, so I have a decent baseline "feel".
Thank god I figured out that part right.
I have a Lee breech lock hand press, and I'm using Lee .223 Remington Pacesetter 3-Die kit.
Pacesetter Dies 223 Rem - Lee Precision
Thanks for the advice Storyteller!
storeyteller
Member
That set comes with a separate crimping die so I kinda doubt the seating die gives much if any of a crimp, else why would you need a crimping die? My set has a FLR, neck size only (for bolt actions) and bullet seating die. Sounds like you're getting there. Good luck.
I have also asked Bill about crimping because some of the bullets I load go into a tubular magazine and in that case crimping is important. Due to the fact that the 223's go into a stacked mag, and I also use the same Lee Dies that you use I find that crimping is not that important, but I use to use the factory crimp die (FCD) but I talked to Bill and then tried it out and found out that I was wasting a lot of time. My Lee reloading manual talks about crimping as a way to keep the chamber pressure even but I am finding that it is not as necessary. John as you are learning it is a learning experience but it is worth it. Keep trying buddy, glad you stepped into it. Oh and by the way it doesn't cling to your shoes!!!! LOL
Maddmax
US Veteran
Never really cared for the "puller in the press" idea. I use and have great luck with a kinetic bullet puller. It's a hollow "plastic" hammer that one end screws off and has a incert the size of what ever cal you want to pull. It tightens around the rim as you screw the bullet in and you slam the "hammer" end down on a hard surface to dislodge the bullet (maybe two good hits). Bullet comes out,powder stays inside. Unscrew and dump the powder and bullet out. Was a bit scary first time I saw one. Been usuing one for almost 40 years and no problems. Love it.
Maddmax
US Veteran
Same here. I do it before I deprime. At the worst I might hear a little crunch if a walnut piece gets in the primer hole when depriming. Don't know about enlarging primer pockets,but I did have walnut pieces get in the primer pockets and switched to doing it before I deprime and size.
Maddmax
US Veteran
I'm to the point of hateing fine tuning reloading dies everytime I switch loads and just getting another press. I reload 45 ACP and (finger pinching) 9mm,223...
That's why I opted for a loadmaster (5 die stations) with FCD - with 9 I cna change bullets and only change the seat die, no tools needed. Changing powder isn't too bad.
To change to 38 is under 5 minutes and the dies don't need changed. So far only shooting lead but that's 148DWC and 158RN - only change is the seating die.
I want to load 357 but have to adjust dies...so i'm waiting till I feel like getting another plate and dies that can be left for 357.
I got a challenger breechlock single stage press and then the lee plate mount deal so I can swap out presses. I plan to be reloading 30-06 in a week or so. So I should be able to setup 30-06 dies and and just go at it and changing to 30-30 or 308 should be quick and easy.
Call it efficiency or just being lazy, your choice.
Maddmax
US Veteran
I have also asked Bill about crimping because some of the bullets I load go into a tubular magazine and in that case crimping is important. Due to the fact that the 223's go into a stacked mag, and I also use the same Lee Dies that you use I find that crimping is not that important, but I use to use the factory crimp die (FCD) but I talked to Bill and then tried it out and found out that I was wasting a lot of time. My Lee reloading manual talks about crimping as a way to keep the chamber pressure even but I am finding that it is not as necessary. John as you are learning it is a learning experience but it is worth it. Keep trying buddy, glad you stepped into it. Oh and by the way it doesn't cling to your shoes!!!! LOL
I'm not 100% sure,but I think my older than dirt RCBS 223 dies had a slight crimp at the end of the bullet seating. I know my RCBS 45 dies do and my 9mm.
Getting back into reloading again... Are there 5.56 reloading dies ??? That cound have been what saved my tail shooting 5.56 in my Mini 14 years ago. It was only shot once for the brass and resized and loaded for 223.
I noticed when I increased to a heavier crimp my group significantly decreased with the same amount of powder used so by increasing the crimp I save money by using less powder for a hotter round.
there is a great video series on Utube on reloading .223 you may want to watch
www.youtube.com/watch?v=THOL_S7Hngs&feature=related , http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgpZXCDWneg&feature=relmfu , http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQGTFkklSTk&feature=related ,http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmeLD8BFm-w&feature=related
The differences between the 223 and the 5.56 is the case from what I have read the case walls are thicker ( same amount of powder in smaller space = higher pressure) and the neck a little longer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iE7E7O4vTM&feature=related
there is a great video series on Utube on reloading .223 you may want to watch
www.youtube.com/watch?v=THOL_S7Hngs&feature=related , http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgpZXCDWneg&feature=relmfu , http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQGTFkklSTk&feature=related ,http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmeLD8BFm-w&feature=related
The differences between the 223 and the 5.56 is the case from what I have read the case walls are thicker ( same amount of powder in smaller space = higher pressure) and the neck a little longer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iE7E7O4vTM&feature=related
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JaPes
Member
^ Thanks GMC.
storeyteller
Member
I use the Lee 3 hole press and set up different turrets for different calibers. Also recently bought a Lee 4 hole press for peanuts I found in the classifieds. Using that for .223 only now since I load and shoot it more than anything else.
JaPes
Member
I just watched the first couple videos in GMC's post. I see that at some point I'll need a primer pocket swager to process military primer pocket crimped brass.
I'm still completely satisfied with the pace & output I achieve with my meager hand press. It fulfills my reloading needs & is forcing me to pay attention to everything.
When the time comes where I'll need to produce a higher volume of ammo, I hope I've built up enough base knowledge to step up to a nice progressive press.
I'm still completely satisfied with the pace & output I achieve with my meager hand press. It fulfills my reloading needs & is forcing me to pay attention to everything.
When the time comes where I'll need to produce a higher volume of ammo, I hope I've built up enough base knowledge to step up to a nice progressive press.
I made a adapter for my cordless drill that works great I took a old drill bit extension and cut it off about 4 inches from the end, removed the bottom set screw and took the lee chamfer tool drilled a hole in the correct height for the set screw and using a bolt bolted the chamfer tool in the extension. works really good
sorry I havent been around been fighting a gout attack. I think I would rather have a root canal w/o anesthesia than gout.
sorry I havent been around been fighting a gout attack. I think I would rather have a root canal w/o anesthesia than gout.
