To Re-Load or Not???

My 450° Tempilaq came in. Turns out the vendor I ordered it from is local to me, but the Tempilaq still drop shipped out of FL. No matter how Congress rags on the USPS, I love priority Mail service. :)

So I painted it onto my sacrificial cases, about 1/4" below the shoulder, then loaded it into a deep socket mounted in my cordless drill. For consistency's sake I opened up the propane torch valve all the way. I turned the drill on very low speed, maybe 3-5 RPM, and stuck the case neck in just above the point of the blue flame.

It took a slow three count to turn the Tempilaq black (it starts off as light gray). Then I dropped the case into an aluminum tray. As a precaution I had the tray nested on top of a second tray full of ice. It's not a big tray and I didn't want to be piling hot brass on top of each other.

Anyway, I ran ten scrap cases through the process to confirm the dwell time then proceeded to anneal cases for real. I only applied Tempilaq to the first two of these then just started counting to three before dropping them in to the tray.

On observation I made was that if the flame turned even a tiny bit orange I was about a count too long. Those resulted in the case neck turning a darker blue, but still having some shine to it. In the picture below the third case from the left is one that I left in the flame a beat too long.

_D7B1640.JPG


So if you don't have Tempilaq try annealing some scrap cases and count how long it takes for the flame to flicker orange. Then back off one count with the next case and see if you get the proper case color. One thing to mention is that the color becomes more apparent once the case cools.

Bill did you paint the inside of the case or the outside?
how hard was it for you to remove the residual templiq?
for mine the tumbler didn't do that great of a job.
I look forward to the update on how they did after firing them, your method is easier from what it sounds like.
 
You can get by

I have to do everything on the cheap. A tumbler is on my list, but I have been loading for my rifle for a long time now without one. I clean the brass by hand. Since I don't shoot nearly as much rifle as I do pistol, cleaning cases by hand doesn't take too long. Don't get me wrong, it's good to have clean, shiny brass functionally because you can see if problems arise better with clean stuff.
 
On observation I made was that if the flame turned even a tiny bit orange I was about a count too long. Those resulted in the case neck turning a darker blue, but still having some shine to it. In the picture below the third case from the left is one that I left in the flame a beat too long.

_D7B1640.JPG


So if you don't have Tempilaq try annealing some scrap cases and count how long it takes for the flame to flicker orange. Then back off one count with the next case and see if you get the proper case color. One thing to mention is that the color becomes more apparent once the case cools.

Bill even your work in progress ammo is like artwork. Those color coded bullet pics are awesome. Question...

I see color variation between the center brass - the two around it and the outside two. Very minor but I see it. Or is it just the pic or phone display?? I see the center brass with the darkest neck. In the heat too long. I also noticed the two surrounding it are lightest and the two outside are a middle shade.

Probably a stupid question but which shade is better? Lighter or medium?? Or is that normal variation?
 
Bill did you paint the inside of the case or the outside?
how hard was it for you to remove the residual templiq?
for mine the tumbler didn't do that great of a job.
I look forward to the update on how they did after firing them, your method is easier from what it sounds like.

I only painted the Tempilaq on the first couple of real cases, on the outside 1/4 below the shoulder, just to make sure that those cases timed the same as my test ones.

As for removing it, acetone will easily remove the non-burnt Tempilaq. For the burn part I scraped off what I could with my finger nail, but for the really stubborn bits I used a green scotchbrite pad then wiped the remaining residue off with more acetone.

Bill even your work in progress ammo is like artwork. Those color coded bullet pics are awesome. Question...

I see color variation between the center brass - the two around it and the outside two. Very minor but I see it. Or is it just the pic or phone display?? I see the center brass with the darkest neck. In the heat too long. I also noticed the two surrounding it are lightest and the two outside are a middle shade.

Probably a stupid question but which shade is better? Lighter or medium?? Or is that normal variation?

There definitely is some color differences due to the time the case was in the flame. I was just counting in my head so my three count may have drifted from case to case. The dark case in the middle is one that stayed a beat too long, to the point where the flame took on an orange tinge. The light ones are the ones where my three count may have been fast. The main thing I looked for, regardless of color, was that the neck still had a shine to it. From the link that GMCman posted once the brass turns dull it's toasted.

After reading way too many online opinions on annealing I believe that all of those cases will be fine. I mean, there are still a number of old timers who insist that getting them to glow then dunking them in water has worked for them for decades. So it'll really come down to seating bullets and shooting them.

Too much annealing with soften the neck to the point where it won't hold a bullet. You can test this by pushing the loaded round against your bench top. The neck tension should hold the bullet firmly in place. Too little annealing will mean the case neck will crack.

To solve the count problem I downloaded a metronome app for my phone. I just need to set it for the correct beats per minute then let it count in 3/4 time :)

The second thing I did was McGuyver this guy's annealing setup, because after annealing 300 cases my hand was numb from trying to maintain speed control over my bulky, 19.2V cordless drill...

anneal-rite_ii_raap.jpg


And a video of it in action...


My ghetto version made with some leftover electrical conduit and mounting clips. The ratchet clamps are from Harbor Freight, $2.99 each. :)

IMG_0605.JPG


I'll get around to mounting the upright tube in a block of wood for more stability.
 
Thanks for the pictures and explanation Bill. Not that I'll be annealing for some time but this this great stuff you guys are discussing for all of us to use.

Plus I was wondering why it looked like someone took a blow torch to my factory xm193!! :)
 
Ok, two trips to the hardware store and $16 of wood and hardware later...presenting annealing jig, ver 2.0 :)

_D7B1642.JPG

_D7B1647.JPG


(Hand cut dovetail joint inspired by Roy Underhill of the PBS show, The Woodwright Shop. :D )

A scrap 45 ACP case screwed onto the pivot arm serves as the case holder...

_D7B1643.JPG


Not sure what I'd use as case holders if I got into reloading larger rifle cartridges...maybe some carbon fiber tubing. Or hope to find some .500 S&W Mag brass on the range. haha
 
Great Idea's Bill, My finger went numb holding the drill trigger down to . I was priming my cases last night and one of them went off, I got a slight burn on my palm from it man that scared the @#@# out of me lol. I hand prime

I have to load some rounds for the shoot and meet coming up but I sure am going to be working on this method some more after that. I still have 500 cases to anneal of 300 and I need to start to anneal my 5.56 cases I am on 5th reloads for them.
 
How do you guys know when your cases need to be annealed ? Generally I get 8 to 10 reloads out of a case then the necks start to crack. When I find a cracked neck I throw the case out.
 
How do you guys know when your cases need to be annealed ? Generally I get 8 to 10 reloads out of a case then the necks start to crack. When I find a cracked neck I throw the case out.

Bob, finding a few cracked necks is my indicator to anneal a batch of cases. But I've read that some, mainly benchrest shooters, will anneal after 3-4 reloadings to maintain consistent neck tension.
 
Bob, finding a few cracked necks is my indicator to anneal a batch of cases. But I've read that some, mainly benchrest shooters, will anneal after 3-4 reloadings to maintain consistent neck tension.

Dangit! I somehow knew I'd be spending more money!! lol

.....but in the grand scheme it's worth it. I'm glad you guys are discussing and sharing this technique.

Range day tomorrow. Going to stuff my first test batch tonight. :)
 
GMCman. I also hand prime. What were you doing? What kind of Primer? I want to know more about this, I have had fear on more than a couple of military brass that one might go off. Please?
 
Gmc man - what tool were you using? I have been hand priming everything for the past 30 years. In the ten year period I shot benchrest, I averaged 8,000 - 10,000 rounds a year. Although I have never had one to go off, the old shooters advised to always point to case away and remove the hand from the base. After wearing out a lee priming tool with a tray, I went back to my lee single tool from the '80s. When the lee tray tool got a lot of wear, sometimes the primer would turn sideways. Just chunked it in the waste can. I like hand priming with an individual tool. Do most in front of the tv at night. I can check for inconsistent, or expanded pockets and can "preload" each anvil with the same amount of tension. With the price of everything today, a good grade single priming tool is not expensive to the reloading tools for anyone and are a must for extreme accuracy in a rifle case.
 
BHarada - As a hobbiest woodworker myself, I applaud you!

Thanks. It's amazing what you coax out of a set of Walmart wood chisels. haha.

Great Idea's Bill, My finger went numb holding the drill trigger down to . I was priming my cases last night and one of them went off, I got a slight burn on my palm from it man that scared the @#@# out of me lol. I hand prime

I have to load some rounds for the shoot and meet coming up but I sure am going to be working on this method some more after that. I still have 500 cases to anneal of 300 and I need to start to anneal my 5.56 cases I am on 5th reloads for them.

Shoot and meet? Sounds like a pretty aggressive way to make new friends. :D

But yes, please give more details on the priming accident. I try to back of at the slightest bit of resistance with my RCBS hand primer, but some primer pockets do need that little extra push to seat the primer in.
 
Ok guys.... this ADDICTION is getting serious

Now have had guns for years, Hunted etc... Buddies have reloaded for me... but never done it or seen it done

Ive heard ya can start at about $200 upto $1500 for equipement. have done some FORUM searching but got frustraded so figured i'd Start with YOU awesome guys for help

My main rd would be .223, with some 9mm and .38 special

Ive also heard anywhere from .10 to .25 to re-load.... I have started KEEPING my brass, more for a buddy, but maybe me as well

So what is some real Current costs/rd to re-load.
Plus's vs minus'

How long would it take to re-load 100rds of .223

Anyways, as always, thanks guys..... just wondering if this is something I can justify TIME wise for me.....
Sitting here on my day off. just cleaned all my guns from yesterday... and now wondering what to do...LOL

Later


Stav

To regard it as a good deal financially, it has to be cheaper than buying equivalent ammo.

It will never be cheaper if you figure in the cost of your time.

Thus, you must regard reloading as a hobby, for which you will donate your time.

The biggest cost used to be the brass casings, but the cost of either jacketed bullets for autos or even lead for casting has increased such that friends who reload now say that it is questionable whether any money is saved. On the other hand, they seem to enjoy it, and that is the goal.
 
To regard it as a good deal financially, it has to be cheaper than buying equivalent ammo.

It will never be cheaper if you figure in the cost of your time.

Thus, you must regard reloading as a hobby, for which you will donate your time.

The biggest cost used to be the brass casings, but the cost of either jacketed bullets for autos or even lead for casting has increased such that friends who reload now say that it is questionable whether any money is saved. On the other hand, they seem to enjoy it, and that is the goal.

In my case the bullets shoot way better. You are so right as it is an enjoyable thing to do. But at todays prices I still think it is cheaper to reload than to buy, especially if you have spare time. Keeps the mind sharp. :D
 
I was sitting in front of the computer watching a movie on Hulu as I was priming, looking up between primes when this one went in smooth and bottomed out then BAM she fired on me. I hold the case with my left hand and sometimes have to turn the shell a little to get her to seat so thats how I burned my hand a little. I really think especially after looking at the case of the primer that it was a thin case.
I use CCI # 41 primers and the hand loader I use is from amazon, its the SmartReloader SR916 Hand Priming Tool, I would not recommend it and am planning on replacing it with something better soon.
 
I wondered cause thats what I am using for primers now (again) I went ahead and used up the wolfs. But I use the RCBS universal hand primer. There has been occasion when I have wondered but it has never happened
 
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