Trail Boss and jacketed bullets are a no go

[austinjeane]

True, as long as you are just talking about surfaces that are only sliding over one another.

HOWEVER, when you are cutting a metal - like when the rifling is scoring the surface of a bullet - softer metals deform more easily and take less effort to produce a cut of the same dimensions.

That effort requires energy. Copper being harder than lead more energy is dissipated for the rifling to score the surface. That lost energy translates to a loss in velocity.

I believe you are making my point for me. When you fire a cast bullet (being a softer metal), it obtrudes to the bore (lands and
grooves), thereby causing more drag (or friction) than a harder copper alloy jacketed bullet. This is demonstrated in practice by initial pressures being higher in shooting cast bullets. I realize that a bullet caster can produce some extremely hard bullets, but I believe that this would be the case for most lead/antimony alloys. Anyway, I guess we'll all have to agree to disagree.

 

[BC38]

I believe you are making my point for me. When you fire a cast bullet (being a softer metal), it obtrudes to the bore (lands and
grooves), thereby causing more drag (or friction) than a harder copper alloy jacketed bullet. This is demonstrated in practice by initial pressures being higher in shooting cast bullets. I realize that a bullet caster can produce some extremely hard bullets, but I believe that this would be the case for most lead/antimony alloys. Anyway, I guess we'll all have to agree to disagree.

The difference in obturation between most cast and jacketed bullets is a negligible factor. Both obturate to a greater or lesser degree, and only the softest lead bullets obturate fully into the lands and grooves.

Think of it this way. Is it easier to use a plunger to force an oversized wad of toilet paper down the loo, vs trying to push the same sized wad of cloth? Or better yet, a plug of wood the same size? The answer is obvious.

Agree or disagree - or even agree to disagree - the facts and the physics don't change.

 

[Nemo288]

This is demonstrated in practice by initial pressures being higher in shooting cast bullets.

Can you supply some scientific data for this conclusion?
As I have stated earlier, QuickLOAD uses a lower start friction for cast bullets.
I know it's not a perfect model (there are none) but it's the best one out there for the money and there has to be a reason they do it that way.
Why would black powder ONLY guns, which are limited in their pressure capabilities all use cast bullets for the most part?

 

[TheHobbyist]

Please educate new comers to the community of gun collecting and shooting about squib loads. Many, many people do not realize this can happen. If something does not seem right, stop. Practice gun safety first.

My comment is not directed at any particular person, just a general statement. If you know someone who is new to shooting, please consider to educate them on this aspect.

 

[austinjeane]

The difference in obturation between most cast and jacketed bullets is a negligible factor. Both obturate to a greater or lesser degree, and only the softest lead bullets obturate fully into the lands and grooves.

Think of it this way. Is it easier to use a plunger to force an oversized wad of toilet paper down the loo, vs trying to push the same sized wad of cloth? Or better yet, a plug of wood the same size? The answer is obvious.

Agree or disagree - or even agree to disagree - the facts and the physics don't change.

You're right, you're wrong

 

[BC38]

You're right, you're wrong

OK man, YOU'RE right.
Everyone else is wrong...
including the published load data...
and the bullet and powder manufacturers...
and the folks who write ballistics software...
and the rest of the whole world.

 

[Speedo2]

Please see Bluedot37's attachment to post no.20 on the thread discussing "coated vs plated bullets".

 

[Nemo288]

Cool Article.
Interesting about the plated bullets.
I would not have guessed that.
Goes to show that when copper really is jammed into the grooves the friction is even higher.
Also may show why moly came and mostly went.
The effort expended doesn't really pay off with much.
Looks like coating is the most efficient way to avoid leading.
Just got my first box of coated 210gr. 44 bullets to play with in the specials.
MBC Cowboy #20 Hi-Tek
I like those I'll get some 240's either their #13 or #3
I like the flat bases they offer too (so would Elmer).
My regular cast 240 is the Beartooth 240 WFNPB which also has no bevel to the base.
Elmer would probably not have approved of Veral's design but I do!
The Cast Performance 260 works very well in the 44 magnum.
My favorite load uses 18 or 19 grains 2400 depending on the brand of brass.