Transition from Handloading to a press

[rwsmith]

I used Lee Handloaders for years for .38 and 30-06 with very good success. I've been using a press for a while now and I find that I'm making a lot of rounds that won't chamber right with both the pistol and rifle ammo. The ones that do chamber right work great. I'm making a lot of adjustments and getting some new equipment (waiting for my cartridge trimmers for both and taper crimp die for the rifle to help) I am trying to keep from being so heavy handed or in a hurry, but I have a lot of kinks in the process and therefore kinks in my ammunition. I'm ready to start loading .357s so I need to get said kinks out. I have an old Speer #9 reloading manual that is very detailed and I've studied it a lot and other sources, but I'm making slow progress. I neck size the rifle but must do something in the crimping process (Speer now says not to crimp rifle at all but I do want a light one) to collapse the case shoulder. I fully resize the straight walled cases and flare them just enough to get the bullet started, then put a light crimp on them. I usually check ammo after making it to see if it will chamber right, but too many slip through. Sorry to be long winded but that's about where I'm at. Any advice is welcome.

 

[SMSgt]

I'm trying to cypher what you're saying, but it sounds like your dies aren't properly set up.

As for the .30-06, I've always full-lenth sized my cases with no problems. I've never "crimped" the rounds as it's un-necessary, at least with any bullet I've used in my Rem 700.

I also started out with the Speer #9 and still have it. While the load data is outdated (many powders changed or no longer made), the info in it is still good.

It would help to know what firearms and loads you trying to workout.

 

[Titegroups]

Sounds like die issues but if youve been sjooting a lot of 38 in your 357 there could be a buildup of lead in the chamber due to the shorter 38 ammo that needs to be cleanedout so the 357's will seat all the way in.

 

[rwsmith]

Sorry to be so blabby

I'm trying to cypher what you're saying, but it sounds like your dies aren't properly set up.

As for the .30-06, I've always full-length sized my cases with no problems. I've never "crimped" the rounds as it's un-necessary, at least with any bullet I've used in my Rem 700.

I also started out with the Speer #9 and still have it. While the load data is outdated (many powders changed or no longer made), the info in it is still good.

It would help to know what firearms and loads you trying to workout.

The neck sizing works in my bolt Savage 110, but I'll bet you're right in that I'm messing up good rounds by trying to crimp. I've been experimenting with sr 4759 and reduced 4895 loads for 110 grain spire points. I'll try stopping the crimp and buy a full sizing die if I still have probs.

The .357 is harder to explain. I keep it scrupulously clean, but I did shoot a lot of .38s through it before I used the .357 rounds. The handmade loads for the model 686 were a starting load of 2400 with a 110 gr. bullet. I probably ought to take a brush with me to the range.

Thanks for the feedback guys. I think I'm going to have to get real about what works and what doesn't

 

[WR Moore]

I expect that, by chance, when you set your crimping adjustment, you had a case that was at or close to the correct length. Then after a few reloads, the cases grew longer and the crimp is causing the neck to set back and the case shoulder grows in diameter.

On the other hand, if you're neck sizing only, the case body could be too large to allow easy chambering. Suggestion: get a case gauge ($15 or so) and use it to adjust a full length sizing die so that your headspace is within tolerance. Combined with cases trimmed to the proper length and no crimp, a well adjusted crimp or a taper crimp, you should be good to go.

 

[novalty]

I neck size the rifle but must do something in the crimping process (Speer now says not to crimp rifle at all but I do want a light one) to collapse the case shoulder.

Why would you want to collapse the shoulder on a rifle round?

 

[rwsmith]

I didn't mean.....

Why would you want to collapse the shoulder on a rifle round?

I didn't mean that I WANTED to collapse the shoulder, but I think the pseudo-crimping operation that I do collapses the shoulder and makes what was a good round into one that won't chamber. I've got to get the right equipment (such as a case gauge) and either get a taper crimp die or not crimp at all. I'm going to try just not crimping first to simplify the number of motions I'm having to go through and if I prove that I need the taper crimp, I'll add it later. Thanks again for getting me on the right track, everybody.

 

[rwsmith]

Update on a very strange problem

I have a strange problem with sizing my 30-06 cases. I have always used them in the same bolt action and neck sized them. I trimmed the cases and measured them and they all look good. All of a sudden about 40% of my rounds stop chambering by about 1/16" of an inch or less. I measured a non-chamberer with caliper and compared it to a chamberer. It appeared that the shoulder wasn't formed right. I ran them back through the die and they LOOKED better but still none of them chambered. I had this problem last time I went to the range and thought I was messing them up by crimping too hard so I decided just to not crimp at all. It seems that was not the problem. It may be that the die is worn. I have a full length die coming in this week. Maybe that will fix it. If anybody has seen this problem please give a shout.

 

[Fishinfool]

Is it possible your expander ball is sticking, and stretching or collapsing the neck slightly on your brass? I have had this problem with 30-30 brass. maybe try lightly lubing the inside of the case neck with graphite, or a Q-Tip dampened with case lube prior to re-sizing.

Larry

 

[310Pilot]

You may not be seating the bullets deep enough, resulting in the ogive contacting the rifling before the case is fully chambered. Also, are you seating and crimping in one operation, or seating first (without crimping), and then readjusting the die to crimp (with the seating plug turned out to avoid pushing the bullet further into the case? If dies are not adjusted exactly right, it is not uncommon to crush shoulders when seating and crimping in one operation. To check for the first problem, insert a bullet in a sized, unprimed and empty case without crimping and chamber the round, gently extract it, then measure the overall length. That will give you the overall length that results in the bullet just contacting the lands. Compare that to the OAL of your other loads to see if that may be the problem.

 

[Engineer1911]

30-06 ammo blues

You are shooting a bolt action 30-06, not a semi-auto or machine gun. Do not crimp the case neck. Full length resize all your 30-06 brass according to the die set-up instructions you have for the dies or according to your Speer manual.

Check the case length on ALL your resized cases. Trim your resized cases to 2.484" ± 0.005" long. Your "buckled shoulder" is caused by cases that are too long for the crimp setting on your seater die. Your problem is solved by making all your cases the same profile [full-length resized], the same length, and don't neck crimp the loaded rounds.

After doing this, you will be able to neck-size only your brass for ~ 10 reloads before it grows too long based on light to medium reloads. My experience is that using cast lead bullets, case necks cracked before I had to full length resize and trim. Using full power powder charges gave about 3 reloads before I had to resize and trim.

I reload safe, accurate ammo. I am not a perfectionist, I have 3 reloading manuals: Lyman [includes cast bullet data], Accurate Arms Powder [my preferred powder for availability & cost], and Hornaday [my preferred brand of bullets]. I have a load for 30-06 with AA powder and 130 grain bullet that shoots one ragged hole at 100 yards for 5 rounds. It just works and I don't know why (or care).

 

[rwsmith]

You are shooting a bolt action 30-06, not a semi-auto or machine gun. Do not crimp the case neck. Full length resize all your 30-06 brass according to the die set-up instructions you have for the dies or according to your Speer manual.

OK, I'm good with this at least with the neck sizing. Setting the die square with the shellholder and stuff. I do have a full length sizer coming maybe today.

Check the case length on ALL your resized cases. Trim your resized cases to 2.484" ± 0.005" long.

OK, I did this.

Your "buckled shoulder" is caused by cases that are too long for the crimp setting on your seater die. Your problem is solved by making all your cases the same profile [full-length resized], the same length, and don't neck crimp the loaded rounds.

OK, I stopped crimping.

After doing this, you will be able to neck-size only your brass for ~ 10 reloads before it grows too long based on light to medium reloads. My experience is that using cast lead bullets, case necks cracked before I had to full length resize and trim. Using full power powder charges gave about 3 reloads before I had to resize and trim.

OK, I've gotten away without full length resizing but my time must have run out on these cases. I'm taking better notes about when to trim and I will have to full size more often and make notes about that.

I reload safe, accurate ammo. I am not a perfectionist, I have 3 reloading manuals: Lyman [includes cast bullet data], Accurate Arms Powder [my preferred powder for availability & cost], and Hornaday [my preferred brand of bullets]. I have a load for 30-06 with AA powder and 130 grain bullet that shoots one ragged hole at 100 yards for 5 rounds. It just works and I don't know why (or care).

OK, I got a new Speer manual last week as my old one was very dated. I'm going to pick up a few more as time goes by. I read that rifles, being all different, have loads that they do well with and loads they don't. Yours must be the right combo for your gun. I'm still looking for mine

I hope this does the trick. THANKS!

 

[rwsmith]

Is it possible your expander ball is sticking, and stretching or collapsing the neck slightly on your brass? I have had this problem with 30-30 brass. maybe try lightly lubing the inside of the case neck with graphite, or a Q-Tip dampened with case lube prior to re-sizing.

Larry

OK, I did this but if I've already crushed a neck it will need more fixing.

 

[rwsmith]

Neck crush??

Is it possible your expander ball is sticking, and stretching or collapsing the neck slightly on your brass? I have had this problem with 30-30 brass. maybe try lightly lubing the inside of the case neck with graphite, or a Q-Tip dampened with case lube prior to re-sizing.

Larry

OK, I did this but if I've already crushed some necks it will need more fixing with the full length sizing die.

 

[rwsmith]

I thought

You may not be seating the bullets deep enough, resulting in the ogive contacting the rifling before the case is fully chambered. Also, are you seating and crimping in one operation, or seating first (without crimping), and then readjusting the die to crimp (with the seating plug turned out to avoid pushing the bullet further into the case? If dies are not adjusted exactly right, it is not uncommon to crush shoulders when seating and crimping in one operation. To check for the first problem, insert a bullet in a sized, unprimed and empty case without crimping and chamber the round, gently extract it, then measure the overall length. That will give you the overall length that results in the bullet just contacting the lands. Compare that to the OAL of your other loads to see if that may be the problem.

I thought that might be the problem after my last range visit had so many failures to chamber. So I tried the plunk test with only the prepared cases (no bullets) and I've still got trouble. I've messed these cases up and I hope the full length resizing die I'm getting will save them. It should be here soon.