StrawHat
Member
No.
A black powder load can shoot through a buffalo. What do you need a BB load for?
The Siamese Mauser is strong enough for the BB load as is the Ruger Number 1 and Number 3.
Kevin
Trapdoor Springfields?
- Thread starter JayFramer
- Start date
No.
A black powder load can shoot through a buffalo. What do you need a BB load for?
The Siamese Mauser is strong enough for the BB load as is the Ruger Number 1 and Number 3.
Kevin
M E Morrison
Member
once again, check BBs website for guns that are strong enough for any given load......
I just spent some time on the BB website and other than listing some TD level loadings, there was no mention of the rolling block action. I remember years ago seeing a chart that had .45-70 loadings broke down into 3 levels of rifle actions, with the TD as the weakest and the Ruger Number 1 as the strongest.
DWalt
Member
I suppose there were some Rolling Block rifles made in .45-70, but I have not personally seen one. No doubt some were also converted to .45-70 from other calibers. The only rolling block rifles in U. S. military service that I know of were those bought by the U. S. Navy in 1870. But they were all in .50-70, not .45-70. I once (long ago) had a friend who owned one of those Navy .50-70 RBs, and I fired it a few times. I think the Navy also had a few RB pistols using a shortened .50 cartridge. RB actions were considered to be very strong at the time.
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The Model 1871 rolling block was made at Springfield Armory under royalty agreement with Remington. These were manufactured for the Army in caliber .50/70 in 1871 and 1872. They are fairly scarce (10,000 total), little known and quite valuable. Mine was made in 1872, and I've fired it with light handloads. Interestingly, it has the same rear sight as the Model 1878 .50/70 trapdoor, takes the same bayonet and has the same ramrod. It's marked with a spread eagle, "U.S." and "SPRINGFIELD ARMORY" over "1872." It has an unusual action. The hammer falls to half-cock when the action is closed, and then must be cocked again to fire. This was an Army safety requirement to prevent the breech from opening if the firing pin was stuck in the forward position, firing the cartridge when the action was closed..
John
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M E Morrison
Member
Yeah!
I have two, an 1879 (pictured) and an 1884. I've never shot with the "newer" one, and can't hit a barn with the '79. The problem is that the originals' bores were spec'd to .462 inches. In my ignorant youth, before I knew that, I used .458 cast slugs. The result? Keyholed targets and a massively leaded barrel.
Years later I acquired a copy of Spence Wolf's book and tried to duplicate the arsenal load following his directions. No joy, but I gave up after only one session, so no reflection on him!
It's a fascinating read, and well worth the price anyway:
Wolf's Western Traders
I have two, an 1879 (pictured) and an 1884. I've never shot with the "newer" one, and can't hit a barn with the '79. The problem is that the originals' bores were spec'd to .462 inches. In my ignorant youth, before I knew that, I used .458 cast slugs. The result? Keyholed targets and a massively leaded barrel.
Years later I acquired a copy of Spence Wolf's book and tried to duplicate the arsenal load following his directions. No joy, but I gave up after only one session, so no reflection on him!
It's a fascinating read, and well worth the price anyway:
Wolf's Western Traders
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Jay Farmer,
Do you realize that Buffalo Bore's cartridges cost $73 to $83, probably plus shipping, for a box of 20? For the price of a couple of boxes you could buy a simple used reloading tools and assemble your own .45-70s. I'd rather rely on the sound advise in reloading manuals than economically motivated advise on whether I should give the advisor $4 a cartridge for their wonder ammo. Many reloading manuals have .45-70 loads for rifles that fall into three different strength categories. Reloading can be for fun rather than a home effort to mass produce 9mm less expensively than than it can be bought in bulk.
Do you realize that Buffalo Bore's cartridges cost $73 to $83, probably plus shipping, for a box of 20? For the price of a couple of boxes you could buy a simple used reloading tools and assemble your own .45-70s. I'd rather rely on the sound advise in reloading manuals than economically motivated advise on whether I should give the advisor $4 a cartridge for their wonder ammo. Many reloading manuals have .45-70 loads for rifles that fall into three different strength categories. Reloading can be for fun rather than a home effort to mass produce 9mm less expensively than than it can be bought in bulk.
Anyone ever owned or shot a U.S. Springfield Trapdoor .45-70 breechloader, either original or reproduction?
I’m interested in owning it for the history and experience. Thoughts?
I currently own an original 1873 Springfield Trapdoor Saddle Ring Carbine and an 1873 Springfield Trapdoor Rifle, both in 45-70
Fun to shoot with light smokeless loads.
I have owned several of these over the years, and the 50-70 versions are very cool!
Good luck in your search and keep us posted!
Well, I know the rolling block action is stronger than the trapdoor action, so I have no problem using TD loads in a RB.
DWalt
Member
The abbreviated story from Flayderman:
The Model 1870 RB rifle (.50-70) was made for the U. S. Navy by Springfield Armory, 22,013 made in 1870-71. Stamped with the American Eagle above USN/SPRINGFIELD/1870. Made under a royalty agreement with Remington. Fewer than 100 were converted by Winchester to .22 RF for Navy use in 1889. The first 10,000 made were rejected by the Navy, sold to some arms dealer, and most were thereafter sold to the French for use in the Franco-Prussian War.
The Model 1871 RB rifle (.50-70). Also made by Springfield Armory, but for for the U. S. Army under a royalty agreement with Remington. Stamped MODEL 1871 with American Eagle over U.S./SPRINGFIELD/1872. 10,001+ made. Also made were 1,008 experimental trial rifles and 314 trial carbines with 22" barrels. Mention made that these were made with the "locking action" when the breechblock was was closed.
There is somewhat more detail provided by Flayderman about both Army and Navy RB models, but too long to go into. What is unstated is whether those rifles ever made it into active U. S. service by either the Army or Navy. My best guess would be that few if any did, as the Trapdoor .45-70 was adopted soon after they were made..
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sw44spl
Member
I love the old gals. I reload ammo for mine. I have a H&R officers carbine. Also...
1867 civil war springfield barrel reduced to 50 cal 50-70 with civil war bayonet
1869 trapdoor 50-70
1874 45-70 buck horn sight
1877 45-70 buffington sight original sling and bayonet
1884 45-70 buffington sight has bayonet
1891 45-70 buffington sight hooded front sight and ramrod bayonet In unissued condition.
1871 Remington rolling block 50-70 NYST issue.
I know a shop that has several that came out of a collection. some carbines and rifles
1867 civil war springfield barrel reduced to 50 cal 50-70 with civil war bayonet
1869 trapdoor 50-70
1874 45-70 buck horn sight
1877 45-70 buffington sight original sling and bayonet
1884 45-70 buffington sight has bayonet
1891 45-70 buffington sight hooded front sight and ramrod bayonet In unissued condition.
1871 Remington rolling block 50-70 NYST issue.
I know a shop that has several that came out of a collection. some carbines and rifles
Art Doc
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
Got this about 20 years ago off Gunbroker. Looks good, works fine, but it feels like it weighs about 3 pounds and kicks the snot out of me with full power loads.
There's a lot of good information on this site as well as some rifles and carbines for sale The U.S. Springfield Trapdoor Rifle Information Center
As far as buying from his site, Al's a on the high end as most dealers are, but you know you're getting original correct rifles.
Qc Pistolero
Member
1873 Trapdoor in 45-70!I'm flabbergasted by all the good press a rifle and cartridge get after 146years.I only hope I can get half as much when I get to be as old...but I don't count on it!
Long live to the 45-70 and to the Trapdoor!
Long live to the 45-70 and to the Trapdoor!
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